[7.3] Azortharion's Hunter Guides

[Deleted]

In any situation where you're hitting more than 1 target while a SoD proc is up (not guaranteed, naturally, on most fights), SoD is gonna be significantly ahead. Any kind of SoD proc on some bursty AoE is also gonna push SoD ahead even with the HBT agility (and now +5 iLvl) advantage.

I see SoD being lower even on AoE, the agility difference is too much.

[Azortharion]

I see SoD being lower even on AoE, the agility difference is too much.

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org...0Trinkets.html

These sims base themselves on Heroic-ish gear. The trinkets are run for themselves on a standard (SimC) fight length with 2 targets to hit a spot of "it's-mostly-single-target-but-there's-some-multi-target-too", this general model (at least in terms of damage-by-spell distribution because of multi-target appearance) applies to most of the fights in BRF with multiple targets of any kind.

This is not using your optimized SV APL, of course, but I doubt that is gonna throw off the difference in the grand scale. Since I imagine your APL fixes most of the mistakes of the default APL, it will have way better ToTH proc spending, better Black Arrow uptime and more Explosive Shots. Neither of those change up the difference between Multistrike and Agility a whole lot, though.

[Deleted]

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org...0Trinkets.html

These sims base themselves on Heroic-ish gear. The trinkets are run for themselves on a standard (SimC) fight length with 2 targets to hit a spot of "it's-mostly-single-target-but-there's-some-multi-target-too", this general model (at least in terms of damage-by-spell distribution because of multi-target appearance) applies to most of the fights in BRF with multiple targets of any kind.

This is not using your optimized SV APL, of course, but I doubt that is gonna throw off the difference in the grand scale. Since I imagine your APL fixes most of the mistakes of the default APL, it will have way better ToTH proc spending, better Black Arrow uptime and more Explosive Shots. Neither of those change up the difference between Multistrike and Agility a whole lot, though.

I'm not convinced how much useful data you get from analysing trinkets in a vacuum, and I haven't done any heroic gear sims so can't really comment on these numbers. I do know that at mythic gear level these numbers are not applicable. The difference between SoD and HBT is fairly minor. The one downside of SoD is that its value is in an RPPM proc, and you are dependent on average or better uptime. On average uptime its marginally behind, which is all I'm really interested in.

[Azortharion]

Vacuum simulations are just fine unless there are IRL circumstances which would have a significant influence on the result. I do not think there is this difference in real world situations for HBT vs SoD.

Both of the trinkets are RPPM, though, and have the same buff uptime each. SoD's RPPM is more important in that its value lies in the proc while HBT's value lies more in its static which is more powerful provided you cannot do any kind of multi-target with an SoD proc up, but that's a rare occasion.

[Deleted]

Vacuum simulations are just fine unless there are IRL circumstances which would have a significant influence on the result. I do not think there is this difference in real world situations for HBT vs SoD.

Both of the trinkets are RPPM, though, and have the same buff uptime each. SoD's RPPM is more important in that its value lies in the proc while HBT's value lies more in its static which is more powerful provided you cannot do any kind of multi-target with an SoD proc up, but that's a rare occasion.

I don't know who gave you that information but they are mistaken.

Telling people SoD is better because you might get a proc on pack beasts is not good advice.

[Azortharion]

It does not take Pack Beasts.

Blast Furnace applies.
Thogar
Darmac
Maidens
Flamebender
Kromog
Hans/Franz

All bosses where you face multiple targets for a somewhat significant period, be it Pack Beasts, split phases, general AoR, multiple bosses present or wolf spawns.

[Deleted]

It does not take Pack Beasts.

Blast Furnace applies.
Thogar
Darmac
Maidens
Flamebender
Kromog
Hans/Franz

All bosses where you face multiple targets for a somewhat significant period, be it Pack Beasts, split phases, general AoR, multiple bosses present or wolf spawns.

But SoD isnt better multi target. Are you trying to give advice for ranking, or progressing?

[Azortharion]

It quite evidently is, at least if you're trying to push recommendations to the wider playerbase instead of the sorta narrow suit that is high-end Mythic-geared players, although I doubt that there's a difference with the trinkets at that point.

The ranking/progression argument is getting stale, there is easily enough multi-target even if you look at the fights from a pure progression perspective for SoD to pull ahead. Blast Furnace phase 2 is Multi-Shot cleave for its entirety save for Elementalist nukes, for one. Thogar has AoE regardless of whether you're trying to rank or progress, Darmac still has spears you can (with fight benefit to some degree as they need to die or you wipe even if they haven't impaled anyone) multi-dot or cleave on if the current mount is not particularly high-prio like Cruelfang.

Maidens is multi-target at all times save for the boats where Survival will probably not be your best choice anyway, but whatever.

Flamebender wolves are a deliberate priority target, you'll be Multi-Shotting here unless one ends up extraordinarily high over the others for some reason, Kromog Grasping Earths are similarly a priority target until you reach the point where people are actually dying too early, and rolling Multi-Shots in sections of the AoE to dot as much as possible is what makes SV super strong for this fight still.

[Tehterokkar]

Kromog hands were never a hard dps check..

[Azortharion]

Week 1 we were having trouble with 2 main boomkins and based on rankings etc I'd put them in the highly talented range. Ofc there's more gear resets and the iLvl buff since then, but enough people will definitely still have trouble meeting that and the Stone Pillar phase reliably every time.

It is besides the point, though.

[HappyLuckBox]

You guys are referring to sv with this sod vs hbt discussion right

[Nemesiz]

Kromog hands were never a hard dps check..

It was a dps check in the sense that you had to have everybody out of hands and not be completely focus starved when Pillars started popping up afterwards.

[BergErr]

Kromog hands were never a hard dps check..

We had our progress kill last reset and we had problems dps problems with hands.

[Invrlose]

Stamp + Lust + 40% Focus Fire + Bestial Wrath + pot = soooo much damage

[Kissthebaby]

I see SoD being lower even on AoE, the agility difference is too much.

it is kinda nuts a wf mythic scales of doom (691) has 302 agility compared to a normal mythic HBT (700) which has 444 agility.

[Samfisher]

I'm contemplating regemming and reenchanting my gear to Multi for BM/MM specs. For ST BM, Multi is right up there with Mastery, and so is Multi for BM and Crit. Lose a bit of BM AoE DPS for dual use gems and enchants?

[Avedas]

it is kinda nuts a wf mythic scales of doom (691) has 302 agility compared to a normal mythic HBT (700) which has 444 agility.

Or even a normal HBT at 670 which has 335 agility.

[Humiliate]

Hey !
Here is our logs of Darmac : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1694&wipes=1
I made the error to play with blink strike instead of stampede but besides that what could I improve ? Should I focus only the main target ? or should I continue to switch to beast pack ? Is that fine for the others hunters to be SV if the end of the fight is the "hard" part ?
There were a lot of try where a tank died (2 tanks, 4 heals), probably going to 5 heals (not sure) tonight.

[Samfisher]

Hey !
Here is our logs of Darmac : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1694&wipes=1
I made the error to play with blink strike instead of stampede but besides that what could I improve ? Should I focus only the main target ? or should I continue to switch to beast pack ? Is that fine for the others hunters to be SV if the end of the fight is the "hard" part ?
There were a lot of try where a tank died (2 tanks, 4 heals), probably going to 5 heals (not sure) tonight.

4 heals? You my friend are very ambitions. Most first kills take 6 healers with them.

[Tehterokkar]

It was a dps check in the sense that you had to have everybody out of hands and not be completely focus starved when Pillars started popping up afterwards.

9/10 times Kromog will start to cast Stone Breath instead of Pillars after first Hands. Plenty of time.