[7.3] Azortharion's Hunter Guides

[0ldsk00l]

Hey, apologies if this is a really stupid question, but I've only recently pulled my hunter out of mothballs to play around with, and I noticed recently when looking thru my guilds logs that a hunter in my guild who is BM spec does not use kill command at all (like, ever). Am I missing out on some super secret hunter tech here, or is WoL bugged, or is this guy a moron (wouldn't doubt the last one...). It seems to me that KC does a ton of damage per focus that AS can't really compare to it, so I don't know why the logs never show it, especially since the other BM hunters KC show up.

His damage isn't great but he's not on the bottom (a lot of new payers lately), but it might just be that he has a lot of gear relative to some of our other DPS.

Sorry for the prolly nooby question, I haven't played BM since BC. I play MM exclusively (which is part of why I stopped playing hunter entirely for so long) but I'd like to give the guildy the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks.

I did want to add that I am familiar with the mechanics of BM and have read the guides within this post, I just want to confirm that there isn't some other plausible explanation before I make potentially slanderous comments toward another player.

[Dphotog]

Your friend is a moron. KC on cool down unless ur about to Beastiality wrath. BW first then KC. This all excluding about when to focus fire which really makes or breaks the spec. The only time u spam arcane is during BW b4 which u should develop enough focus.

[Kisshot]

Wondering i haven't seen it in the sims or posted lately but why isnt MDT on the BM trinket list?

[eschatological]

Hey, apologies if this is a really stupid question, but I've only recently pulled my hunter out of mothballs to play around with, and I noticed recently when looking thru my guilds logs that a hunter in my guild who is BM spec does not use kill command at all (like, ever). Am I missing out on some super secret hunter tech here, or is WoL bugged, or is this guy a moron (wouldn't doubt the last one...). It seems to me that KC does a ton of damage per focus that AS can't really compare to it, so I don't know why the logs never show it, especially since the other BM hunters KC show up.

His damage isn't great but he's not on the bottom (a lot of new payers lately), but it might just be that he has a lot of gear relative to some of our other DPS.

Sorry for the prolly nooby question, I haven't played BM since BC. I play MM exclusively (which is part of why I stopped playing hunter entirely for so long) but I'd like to give the guildy the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks.

I did want to add that I am familiar with the mechanics of BM and have read the guides within this post, I just want to confirm that there isn't some other plausible explanation before I make potentially slanderous comments toward another player.

Keep in mind, Kill Command should show up under his pet's damage, not his.

[Deleted]

Wait what is going on with the Coil and Censer in the guide? What makes Coil better?

[Deleted]

Wait what is going on with the Coil and Censer in the guide? What makes Coil better?

I believe it's mainly just due to how fights work. Having coil is excellent on fights with streams of adds that need nuking down. A great example is gorefiend, where a coil would have a good effect on every single add you switch to, even though censer might be slightly better overall the coil is very reliable.

Similarly on archimonde you have it's effect for every single doomfire, etc.

[Deau]

Trying white layout. Vote about it here http://strawpoll.me/5048301/

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Doesn't make sense unless you're killing the boss in under like 60 seconds.

I don't see how you can come up with this conclusion. The two trinkets sim so close over a 7:30 standard sim whilst acknowledging the fact that the icd desyncs with 2 mins cooldowns more and more as the length increases, enough that procs beyond the third don't overlap at all whereas the RPPM alternative is expected to overlap here and there. SotE will beat H-Censer for <2:20 Iron Reaver drills with the legendary ring. Not that such an encounter's parse really matter anyway but then again very few do once many guilds have things on farm status.

Even simming my toon on 150s fixed length sim which favours SotE less than an actual heroic iron reaver parse in the current meta (since the second proc happens anywhere between 110s and 115s and the drill is to beat the fight before 140s) gives SotE 1440 dps above.

[NoClueWhatToDo]

How much DPS does 4P and legendary ring combined give you? Are we talking a 10K DPS boost? Higher than 10K?

[Deleted]

How much DPS does 4P and legendary ring combined give you? Are we talking a 10K DPS boost? Higher than 10K?

Speaking about the ring alone (going from 4-piece without the ring, to 4-piece with the ring) It's ridiculous, and changes on a fight per fight basis. I've noticed from my logs doing a normal run-through a difference of 6-21k dps depending on the fight. I'll have to wait until I do our heroic farm on Wednesday to get a better gauge of good the ring is in a more competitive environment.

It seems very op at the moment though.

[Nairesha]

Speaking about the ring alone (going from 4-piece without the ring, to 4-piece with the ring) It's ridiculous, and changes on a fight per fight basis. I've noticed from my logs doing a normal run-through a difference of 6-21k dps depending on the fight. I'll have to wait until I do our heroic farm on Wednesday to get a better gauge of good the ring is in a more competitive environment.

Seconded. Experienced this on Sunday - I was able to keep up with the top DPS (all ring wearers) thanks to Archimondes trinket, but lacking 1 PC and not having the ring yet > 6-10K DPS difference, depending on the boss. The week before I was top 1-3 (at worst 3, mind you).

The ring really is OP XD (btw 2 more fing books)

[zvr]

Hello, I have a two small questions - is SimCraft 100% correct when calculating dps for trinkets?
If there's small difference between 2 selected trinkets (like ~300dps) is it even worth it to swap them?

[Effinhunter]

Hello, I have a two small questions - is SimCraft 100% correct when calculating dps for trinkets?
If there's small difference between 2 selected trinkets (like ~300dps) is it even worth it to swap them?

It's within a margin of error, considering intelligent play and the time you set. By default, the time is 450s, which doesn't line up best for all trinkets. Simcraft is a tool to help you validate some of your intuitions. It is helpful for making gear decisions and understanding changes to your rotation, but some intuition is usually best applied here. There are undoubtedly still some bugs in our hunter module that we have not found yet.

Simcraft accuracy is compounded by a few things. First, the hotfix vs. patch aspect of WoW. Patches provide the Simcraft devs with insight into changes while hotfixes are harder to analyze with automated tools until they become part of an official patch. Second, many things in the engine (e.g., Explosive shot mechanics and many specialized trinkets) are hard-coded into the engine and may drift away from the actual implementation in game until one of us catches it. The third thing is bugs accidentally inserted into the system by programmers trying their best and managing code changes between many developers (this is a normal part of software development).

So, no. I would not say Simcraft is 100% accurate. But it's the best tool we have for helping us investigate the potential of our class.

To get to your second "small" question. 300 dps is usually worth taking notice of. 1-50 dps is often not as big of a deal (with current ilvls and scaling). However, different action lists and even different gear sets can produce very different dps numbers for a single trinket. By, for instance, taking legendary ring pairings into account, we may be able to make certain on-use trinkets line up better (especially if we have a predictable time window for a boss--e.g., you know that your guild consistently kills IR between 3m and 3m 20s). You can sometimes tweak action lists to increase dps with the same gear by significant margins.

Theorycrafting is an iterative process. What we start out with (in terms of theory) is not necessarily what we end up with. Which is why answering a question like "Is Simcraft always 100% correct?" is hard to do without just saying "No."

[0ldsk00l]

@eschatological: ya, I see the other pet attacks like melee and claw show up. Just no KC. Is there ANY possible way it's a WoL error somehow? It shows no KC at all for like 2 weeks of raids (ever since he swapped from SV)

Thanks

[Azortharion]

Don't use WorldofLogs.

[eschatological]

@eschatological: ya, I see the other pet attacks like melee and claw show up. Just no KC. Is there ANY possible way it's a WoL error somehow? It shows no KC at all for like 2 weeks of raids (ever since he swapped from SV)

Thanks

Like Azor said, WorldofLogs as far as I know is deprecated. Like, it might not even be updated for this expansion. It might be missing an enhance KC (is that a perk in BM? I don't even remember).

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There's very little chance he's not using KC and is still mid-table damage wise, that should tank his DPS.

[Svisalith]

How much DPS does 4P and legendary ring combined give you? Are we talking a 10K DPS boost? Higher than 10K?

A LOT. I'd say 1.3-1.4x damage from going 3 piece with epic ring to 4 piece with legendary, based on a few numbers but not strictly accurate.

If your DPS was 50k in the first place, that'd be a 15k - 20k DPS boost.

The 4p is extremely powerful. The ring on top of that acts to multiply your damage. Basically, you lose the epic ring proc but any damage you do during the 15 second burst period (which you can line up with rapid fire and beating heart) is increased by 25% and then later multiplied by 1.25x again. The ring alone, ignoring all of its stats aside from the activation will increase your damage during that period by ~56.25% AT BASE LEVEL. That's obscene. As MM hunters we have the control to do huge amounts of damage for 15 seconds every 2 minutes

[deatzh]

Wait what is going on with the Coil and Censer in the guide? What makes Coil better?

It has to do with what we are given to do. A hunters current strength lies in priority damage on demand. The issue with the censer is it is frequently not there so when we need damage and dont have it this can cause wipes and unpleasant situations. Coil sims very closely with it and eliminates completely this aspect of rng inherent in a trinket like that. Now one may counter and say but the extra burst is good and can help but on the other hand if you cant kill something ALL the time when you need to you will again have issues. Now on a single target fight who gives a shit because dps is dps, so that gives us zakuun.

[Deleted]

how does the blademaster ttrinket work? use and they spawn at the target?

[Angrysteel]

how does the blademaster ttrinket work? use and they spawn at the target?

Yes.

And then the tank walks a few yards away and you get 0 dps from them. Ever hear your warriors scream about ravengers, or death knights screaming about defiles, mages screaming about crystal, etc etc when a tank moves slightly? Well, thats basically what this trinket is for hunters.

[Pengalor]

how does the blademaster ttrinket work? use and they spawn at the target?

Yes. When you use it they spawn on your current target and will spin in place for the duration. They will not move from their spawn point so ensure that whatever you are targeting will be there for a while.

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Yes.

And then the tank walks a few yards away and you get 0 dps from them. Ever hear your warriors scream about ravengers, or death knights screaming about defiles, mages screaming about crystal, etc etc when a tank moves slightly? Well, thats basically what this trinket is for hunters.

Or hunters screaming about Chimaera cleave :P