1. #2021
    sry about that i should clarify my concern, i meant to say in CM range gear (630), do you have any sims for the rotation at this ilvl, does the rotation/build change at all?

  2. #2022
    Even understanding that MM is 'the' raiding spec... I hate the feel of MM now and have never particularly enjoyed SV and plan to at least start out as BM.

    Questions:

    Are the AMR weights in the OP (or the AMR default weights) useable for BM? If not, what would you guys recommend? Best as I can tell, at lower gear levels, crit probably is better, but once one starts getting into raid gear levels, multistrike will be better? Or am I misinterpreting what I think I read?

    I picked up a Lucky Double-Sided Coin on the auction house for not too expensive; do I want to stack it with Bestial Wrath? (I've seen a lot about not stacking it with Rapid Fire, but since I don't have that any more...)

    Thanks

  3. #2023
    Will post SV and BM AMR weights later.

    If you are playing correctly, BW and Coin will line up by themselves, but yes.

    Not sure what kind of fuckwit has told you not to stack it with Rapid Fire.

  4. #2024
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post
    1) It has nothing to do with range, it's how/where you are facing. It's really just l2p.

    It really is not "l2p". The range and pull radius is not intuitive at all.

    I want to see the hunter that picks up this talent and doesn't randomly pull groups a bunch of times because it is hitting mobs that are not even visible on screen at times (in some heroics apparently even through walls)

    I mentioned myself that the only way to safely use it currently is to face away from any mobs which in heroics usually means running into the pack and facing a wall or running behind the pack and facing back to the way you came from.
    Doing anything else almost always pulls something because there is zero visual indication of the cone you are hitting infront of you.

    I wish barrage was "smart" in a sense that it does not hit mobs without aggro.

  5. #2025
    Quote Originally Posted by quizzlemanizzle View Post
    It really is not "l2p". The range and pull radius is not intuitive at all.

    I want to see the hunter that picks up this talent and doesn't randomly pull groups a bunch of times because it is hitting mobs that are not even visible on screen at times (in some heroics apparently even through walls)

    I mentioned myself that the only way to safely use it currently is to face away from any mobs which in heroics usually means running into the pack and facing a wall or running behind the pack and facing back to the way you came from.
    Doing anything else almost always pulls something because there is zero visual indication of the cone you are hitting infront of you.

    I wish barrage was "smart" in a sense that it does not hit mobs without aggro.
    If you manage your camera angles and aim you will not have a barrage issues. I got used to barrage to the point where i know exactly what it will hit and what it will not.

  6. #2026
    Quote Originally Posted by quizzlemanizzle View Post
    It really is not "l2p". The range and pull radius is not intuitive at all.

    I want to see the hunter that picks up this talent and doesn't randomly pull groups a bunch of times because it is hitting mobs that are not even visible on screen at times (in some heroics apparently even through walls)

    I mentioned myself that the only way to safely use it currently is to face away from any mobs which in heroics usually means running into the pack and facing a wall or running behind the pack and facing back to the way you came from.
    Doing anything else almost always pulls something because there is zero visual indication of the cone you are hitting infront of you.

    I wish barrage was "smart" in a sense that it does not hit mobs without aggro.
    It really is l2p, as much as I don't like saying it. You need to be aware of your environment, face properly etc. and you may still pull shit by accident, atm it is a really shitty design, standing at max/close to max range may help. Weird thing is that the cone seems to be inconsistent, I sometimes pull mobs which are over 40 yards away and at strange angle while being unable to tag mob standing 10 yards away from the group, which is well within my range.

    Setting camera angle helps a lot too, but requires you to be completely aware of your environment, which is kinda impossible in places you've never been to before.

  7. #2027
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorban View Post
    sry about that i should clarify my concern, i meant to say in CM range gear (630), do you have any sims for the rotation at this ilvl, does the rotation/build change at all?
    The rotation doesn't change, the build does depending on what spec you play.

  8. #2028
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufix View Post
    It really is l2p, as much as I don't like saying it. You need to be aware of your environment, face properly etc. and you may still pull shit by accident, atm it is a really shitty design, standing at max/close to max range may help. Weird thing is that the cone seems to be inconsistent, I sometimes pull mobs which are over 40 yards away and at strange angle while being unable to tag mob standing 10 yards away from the group, which is well within my range.

    Setting camera angle helps a lot too, but requires you to be completely aware of your environment, which is kinda impossible in places you've never been to before.
    Is it even a cone that is my question?

    Yesterday it seemed to hit a pack through a wall in UBRS that was by my guess at about an 150+° angle from my model base. If it is a cone it seems to have very wide angle.

  9. #2029
    There is no doubt about Barrage acting up, much like it has done earlier in MoP. You can stand at 43y and pull a pack 60y away, it is a "L2P" in the sense that one has to position oneself in order to be 100% sure not to ninjapull stuff. It is probably not gonna cause an issue in Raids, it is most likely positive that it has as big a range as it has. Hell sometimes I see shots going out in approx. 75 degress from my front.

  10. #2030
    Quote Originally Posted by quizzlemanizzle View Post
    Is it even a cone that is my question?

    Yesterday it seemed to hit a pack through a wall in UBRS that was by my guess at about an 150+° angle from my model base. If it is a cone it seems to have very wide angle.
    It's a cone that can pass through corners and trees. Cone is about 100 degrees
    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    More amusing than that is the fact that the entire basis behind Sinestra as a lore character is that she was the only dragon who was able to withstand the power of Deathwing's cock.

  11. #2031
    Deleted
    The Barrage cone is a 180° arc in front of your character.
    This means that if you were stood in the middle of a clock face, facing towards 12, it would hit everything from 9 o'clock round through 12 to 3 o'clock.
    It can (and will) hit anything in that arc up to your maximum range (don't forget that MM mastery extends this range).

    I have noticed it being somewhat choosy, sometimes not hitting targets inside the arc but I have never seen it hit a target not inside the arc.

    The only ways to use it reliably without pulling more things into the fight are to make sure that potential adds are behind you or outside your max range. There are some dungeons where I'd just recommend not using it at all for trash (Everbloom & Grimrail Depot mainly). Maybe switch to Glaive Toss for these places or just make do without using it.

    If you pull something you wish you hadn't, you can still save your group with a quick Feign Death (unless a heal lands on you in between the time Barrage pulls & you hit FD or if you were firing it while under misdirection).

  12. #2032
    Deleted
    Would the BM Stat prio of: Multistrike > Crit > Versatility > Haste = Mastery apply to Challenge modes as well then being locked at 630 ilevel?
    Is it more mathed out for higher ilevel?

  13. #2033
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by aere1985 View Post
    The Barrage cone is a 180° arc in front of your character.
    This means that if you were stood in the middle of a clock face, facing towards 12, it would hit everything from 9 o'clock round through 12 to 3 o'clock.
    It can (and will) hit anything in that arc up to your maximum range (don't forget that MM mastery extends this range).
    So you are saying it is not a cone at all like I suspected. It simply hits everything that is infront of you and inside 43yrds range.

  14. #2034
    I added a challenge mode "guide" with changes to consider in CM's.

  15. #2035
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by quizzlemanizzle View Post
    So you are saying it is not a cone at all like I suspected. It simply hits everything that is infront of you and inside 43yrds range.
    I should probably have qualified my statement with saying that this was based purely upon my own personal observations.

    It isn't a cone like Multishot which picks it's centre-point on your current target. I'm not sure if it is the full 180 arc but if you play as if it is you are at least erring on the side of caution.

  16. #2036
    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post

    1) Do not use Barrage during ToTH. Will update OP with this later, but; (that's with Barrage, ignore it says GT)

    But do use Glaive Toss during ToTH unless not using it means you can expend another stack, the two behaviours sim equally;

    AiS travel time is almost instant (100 yds/sec) so you'll know it crit when you get 20 focus back pretty quick regardless. If someone else doesn't get to it first I'll get on and make a WeakAura that does this tho.
    So, similar to the rotation at 90. No barrage if toth is up on single target?
    Finbez
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological
    if only WoW had come out when I was a teenager. Back then online gaming consisted of text-based MUDs....I could type "kill orc" faster than any of my competition, brosephs, and played a mean giantman cleric.

  17. #2037
    Excellent repeating of what I've just said. ;p

  18. #2038
    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post
    Excellent repeating of what I've just said. ;p
    Just making it clear.
    This certainly makes the rotation a little bit smoother on ST. No more giant 3s 60 focus cost dump to do every 20s.
    Last edited by Finbezz; 2014-11-28 at 03:30 PM.
    Finbez
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological
    if only WoW had come out when I was a teenager. Back then online gaming consisted of text-based MUDs....I could type "kill orc" faster than any of my competition, brosephs, and played a mean giantman cleric.

  19. #2039
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by aere1985 View Post
    The Barrage cone is a 180° arc in front of your character.
    It's quite wide but it's not 180°. More like a 90-100° cone towards where your char is facing (not camera).

  20. #2040
    Playing with my character in simc i've run into
    http://i.imgur.com/GOd6pDy.jpg using newest simc release
    shows hc wf boots on par with 645 poorly itemized ones, would that be correct or ive fucked something up? and yeah them paint skills
    Last edited by Einsz; 2014-11-28 at 05:08 PM.

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