1. #1

    Is our rogue under preforming ?

    I feel like our assassination rogue could be doing a lot more dps, he's always near the bottom of the meters despite the fact that he is the most geared dps in the group. I didn't see a thread on the front page where I could ask for help but I mind have not noticed it, But anyways can you guys give some tips on how to improve his performance?

    warcraftlogs.com/reports/1Z4y6HdnLNk2PFgh#type=damage-done&fight=31

    Feel free to look at the other bosses, his dps is low because he is busy calling out stuff and paying attention to mechanics since he is raid leader. Also I noticed his reforging and he is stacking full crit, pure crit gems. I'm not good at rouges but i think ass rouges stack haste and mastery.

  2. #2
    Nazgrim isn't really a benchmark dps fight, but rather about interupting, stunning etc. I havent been Assasination for some time, but I'm pretty sure they stack crit and haste.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paincake View Post
    Nazgrim isn't really a benchmark dps fight, but rather about interupting, stunning etc. I havent been Assasination for some time, but I'm pretty sure they stack crit and haste.
    Mastery is higher at this point afaik, but you're right about the fight; there's not much point looking at DPS on this fight. Depending on your raid's tactics it should be better to look at IJ or Malkorok.

    As for the RL excuse, you should not let people rely on a single person calling everything out as it fucks both the player and the raid up. People get too used to hand-holding, if that one person doesn't call something out, or for some reason can't make the raid people miss stuff and the raid will turn to shit. Not to mention that one person is having to do all the work what everyone else should be able to see anyway. Use VEM to replace DBM if people prefer a voice, it's literally copied (with permission) with a voice on top to call out specific things.
    Last edited by Soisoisoi; 2014-08-07 at 11:55 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Paincake View Post
    Nazgrim isn't really a benchmark dps fight, but rather about interupting, stunning etc. I havent been Assasination for some time, but I'm pretty sure they stack crit and haste.
    Sorry I meant to link malkorak,

    warcraftlogs.com/reports/1Z4y6HdnLNk2PFgh#type=damage-done&fight=36

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    Sorry I meant to link malkorak,

    warcraftlogs.com/reports/1Z4y6HdnLNk2PFgh#type=damage-done&fight=36
    I'm by no means an expert, but I can see several problems with this Malk log. His feint uptime is (probably) a bit excessive, he uses BoS /way/ too much, and his rupture uptime is bad. I know I used to do poorly on malk because I used BoS too much, so that's what I checked first.

    Obviously his envenom uptime is bad as well because he's starving himself on energy. Especially this late into the tier, get him to use BoS/feint less for sure.


    edit: Looked at his IJ parse as well. His rupture seems okay (assuming you do the hide strat, since I'm comparing his uptime to my old old parse), but he does far too few envenoms. Possibly because of lack of haste or something? Regardless, that's hurting him.
    Last edited by Dendalaus; 2014-08-08 at 12:43 AM.

  6. #6
    Your rogue has some issues with uptime, but it's not terrible. There are some fights that aren't melee friendly fights, depending on your strats an assination rogue will most likely be under good caster dps on the follow fights: protectors, shamans, nazgrim, malkorak and be especially strong on norushen, sha, iron juggernaut, siegecrafter, paragons. (all heroic encounters ofc) Like any class uptime for your buffs is one of the most important things to sustain good dps. Get him or her to work on keeping up buffs like rupture, slice n dice and if they're not using this stat priority I would recommend changing to it, you should prioritize hit/exp soft caps>mastery>crit>haste until you get bis heroic gears then that would change to hit/exp soft caps>haste>mastery>crit. In most cases the mastery will help your poison dmg go up alot and help your overall dps. Hope that helps and gl on progression if you're still working on fights in SoO.

  7. #7
    65 casts of Burst of Speed and 43 of Feint? That's a craplot of energy sacrificed for mostly unnecessary survivability.
    You should ask him if he has them macro'd to his Mutilate or something, i have no idea how that even happens otherwise.

  8. #8
    judging from the replay function on the malkorok log he spends a lot of time outside of melee range soaking orbs for ranged, something a lot of rogues had to do in progress i guess, but he realy shouldnt have to imho. Just make ranged clear their own shit during bloodrage :P Dno if that still warrants having 50+% uptime on both feint and BoS but it won't help his dps either.

    Didnt go into the logs but he seemed to do decent on IJ considering you guys sit out the siege phase.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tijl View Post
    judging from the replay function on the malkorok log he spends a lot of time outside of melee range soaking orbs for ranged, something a lot of rogues had to do in progress i guess, but he realy shouldnt have to imho. Just make ranged clear their own shit during bloodrage :P Dno if that still warrants having 50+% uptime on both feint and BoS but it won't help his dps either.

    Didnt go into the logs but he seemed to do decent on IJ considering you guys sit out the siege phase.
    Well the days of spoiled ranged brats will be over soon. In WoD ranged will actually have to l2play rather then slack and assign their jobs to melee in order to flex their epeen logs.

  10. #10
    i agree with paincake,your ranged are just being fucking lazy if he has to run out to soak for them.i soak just whats just in melee,i also use bos but only when moving to my pool do to add slowing me down.he needs to tel everyone else to soak there own orbs and pools.i dont play assas much anymore but his dps does semm kinda low for that fight and it might be due to him having to run all over creation.i play combat and do about 100k more dps than him with a 583ilvl

  11. #11
    Considering he's running all over the place in malk and not even trying to DPS, i don't see why you want to judge his DPS based on that. Instead I looked at his Sha DPS. For some reason on Sha, he never got the shamans grace until the end of the fight. When you guys Blood lust, he missed most of it, I assume he got called to pacman. He should have stacked his 2nd virmens bite with lust instead of immediately when it came off cd, but thats minor. When you look at how he got screwed over on this fight, and he still put up respectable DPS i think he's ok.

    With that said, he is gemming incorrectly. He's over estimating his 2 piece bonus, and that is why he is stacking crit. At his iL assassin rogue wants to equalize the stats. He is stacking crit when it is already high, thus the EP isn't there. He needs to regem and reforge in whatever recombination gets him everything's EP as close to a 1:1:1 ratio between haste mast and crit. Shadow craft recommends he reforge haste, and gem agi-mastery and some crit.

    Also, at his Il he will get much more DPS going combat. I'd recommend sub, but his sub DPS will suck ass the way he runs all over the place and doesn't focus on actual DPS.
    Last edited by brandog712; 2014-08-08 at 04:42 PM.

  12. #12
    He shouldn't be running all over the place all the time. If you are going to run around and clean up the orbs outside of melee, use sprint and cloak, and then get back to the boss asap. BoS and feint should be used far less frequently. BoS should only be used to break the snare from the add if you are about to run out and clear orbs, and feint should only be used when cleaning up an orb in melee while cloak is on cooldown.

    And I find his decision to go full on crit in his gemming and reforging to be just bizarre. If you swap between assassination and combat, but use combat most, you'd want to gem and reforge primarily for haste. If you raid primarily as assassination and on rare occasions go combat, you should favor gemming agility over secondary stats, with haste being the secondary stat most valued after agility.

    Delicate gems in red/prismatic sockets and glinting gems in blue sockets. As for yellow sockets, I'd recommend deft gems. But if you are assassination 100% of the time, it doesn't matter too much whether you use adept, deadly, or deft gems, as the values of the secondary stats should be much more balanced, and crit wont be incredibly devalued as it is in his gemming strategy. After fixing those gems, I'd then just reforge based on what shadowcraft recommends, and if clicking reforge in shadowcraft flips between multiple different reforges, just use the one with the highest estimated dps. There are ways to tweak it further, but at least that will give him a starting point.
    Tishelle (Rogue) - Tisha (Mage) - Tishandra (DK) - Tisharia (Priest) - Tishanna (Warlock) - Tishie (Monk) - Tishette (Boosted Warrior )

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tisha View Post
    He shouldn't be running all over the place all the time. If you are going to run around and clean up the orbs outside of melee, use sprint and cloak, and then get back to the boss asap.
    Very much this. It is in no way worth him ruining his dps so that your people standing at range don't have to do anything. Just because a rogue can do that doesn't mean it isn't an awful idea for him to do it. You're likely already assigning sections for soaking pools, and people should be clearing their section using their own cooldowns in between him sprinting around with cloak. Having him pull off the boss to use bos and feint and do 0 dps instead of having a ranged person cast a slightly less efficient dps spell is asinine.

  14. #14
    I soak orbs on Malkorok as well. I do exactly what Tisha described and I am consistently in the top 3 on Malkorok, despite soaking, and regardless of whether I am Combat, Sub or Assassination (yes I play all 3 regularly). Sure it is going to punish you somewhat, but not nearly as much as you are thinking.. especially as Assassination where poisons will continue to tick for a time after you run off.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Paincake View Post
    Nazgrim isn't really a benchmark dps fight, but rather about interupting, stunning etc. I havent been Assasination for some time, but I'm pretty sure they stack crit and haste.
    Mastery > haste >crit

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dendalaus View Post
    I'm by no means an expert, but I can see several problems with this Malk log. His feint uptime is (probably) a bit excessive, he uses BoS /way/ too much, and his rupture uptime is bad. I know I used to do poorly on malk because I used BoS too much, so that's what I checked first.

    Obviously his envenom uptime is bad as well because he's starving himself on energy. Especially this late into the tier, get him to use BoS/feint less for sure.


    edit: Looked at his IJ parse as well. His rupture seems okay (assuming you do the hide strat, since I'm comparing his uptime to my old old parse), but he does far too few envenoms. Possibly because of lack of haste or something? Regardless, that's hurting him.
    You really dont need to be spamming feint at all unless youre taking mass amounts of dmg or trying to solo soak something. And even then you hit feint once and continue your rotation.

    Rupture you reapply with <5s
    SnD you shoudlnt have to worry about after the intial start
    Never clip envenom buff unless you are about to energy cap and cant refresh anything else
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Paincake View Post
    Well the days of spoiled ranged brats will be over soon. In WoD ranged will actually have to l2play rather then slack and assign their jobs to melee in order to flex their epeen logs.
    what? ranged basically carry the fight, theres what 1 melee circle and 5-6 ranged? yeh ok ranged get spoiled on this fight, melee don't basically just stand behind the entire boss all fight like it's patchwerk, oh no wait they do!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    what? ranged basically carry the fight, theres what 1 melee circle and 5-6 ranged? yeh ok ranged get spoiled on this fight, melee don't basically just stand behind the entire boss all fight like it's patchwerk, oh no wait they do!
    yep thats what i do,just stand there and beat on the boss.oh wait.i also soak pools and all the orbs during blood rage because "we dont have any defensive abilities for that phase".let the rogue do the belts because they have the best burst in the game,cant think of any other class that has better burst or make the rogue kill the engi cuz they have sprint and ss.ranged has had it easy since WotLK

  18. #18
    Rupture you reapply with <5s
    reapply rupture when <2s.

    what? ranged basically carry the fight, theres what 1 melee circle and 5-6 ranged? yeh ok ranged get spoiled on this fight, melee don't basically just stand behind the entire boss all fight like it's patchwerk, oh no wait they do!
    Agreed. I don't understand where range is easier came from, but almost every fight I can think of range have to deal with mechanics that melee can ignore.

    yep thats what i do,just stand there and beat on the boss.oh wait.i also soak pools and all the orbs during blood rage because "we dont have any defensive abilities for that phase".let the rogue do the belts because they have the best burst in the game,cant think of any other class that has better burst or make the rogue kill the engi cuz they have sprint and ss.ranged has had it easy since WotLK
    Range also soak balls during blood rage, it's anybody with movement speed and good damage reduction. Rogues are good for belts, because we can have CDs up for every single belt, and hunters are best for belts not rogues. Rogues on engineer is good cuz range have to worry about not aggroing the wolf rider or any warbringers when going to or back from the engineer.

    I have a mage and lock alt, and when I compare the encounters, it almost does feel like a tank n spank on most fights when im on my rogue. Im not sure if ur just trolling or mad cuz ur RL made u deal with some mechanics.
    Last edited by overdose; 2014-08-16 at 12:34 AM.

  19. #19
    We're not pulling ranged vs. melee mechanics discussion in here. This isn't the place, and with the name-calling going on, no place on these forums is the place. Back on topic.

  20. #20
    His feint uptime is pretty insane, I can understand feinting if you gona soak a pool but I cant see why someone would keep feint up for 54% of that fight. Theres a gap in his Slice and Dice there wich isnt bad in itself but that means he went without envenoming for over 30 seconds in this fight wich is not justifiable at all. His envenom uptime is very, very low he is either taking too long to generate combo points or spending it wrong somehow. 66 Bursts of Speed is also unjustifiable, you have to use that skill maybe 10 times in the fight if youre soaking pools and if you go soak the orbs whenever you can. HIs rupture uptime is also low. He is basicaly wating a lot of energy and aparently uptime on boss by doing other things and is killing his DPS.

    Also he only used 1 agility potion, so he either didnt pre-pot or didnt use a pot during the fight.
    Last edited by DakonBlackblade; 2014-08-19 at 12:50 PM.

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