Page 19 of 20 FirstFirst ...
9
17
18
19
20
LastLast
  1. #361
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by M4D View Post
    Yes I know I said I was gone, but there's so many wrongs and arguments taken straight out of your rear in your post that I needed to address it.


    And that is why raid tuning lasts for 2+ months on PTR ? Yea definitely not much to look at right ?

    No, I'm telling you all the "new" casual stuff we're getting nowadays takes similar if not more time than designing a few more dungeons, also while dungeons were still enjoyed all expansion long during TBC the abolition of atonements made them merely relevant past the first raid tier during Cata and onwards. As a company, when you see something as resource consuming as dungeons being left out 4 months after release, what is the next logical step ? Doing more dungeons ? Nope. And that's why you get less dungeons (that you seem to enjoy) and more other stuff (that others might enjoy).


    Again, I don't get what you're saying. Purely speaking in a matter of numbers MoP had 7 zones, just like TBC, WotLK had 8 and Cata had 5 - and I'm not even mentioning IoT and TI (which would amount to 9 for MoP). Also never before have I encountered more WBs and mini bosses in the open than in MoP's zones. Art, despite being fundamentally subjective has been pretty flawless in MoP and lore is almost a non issue when all the lore up until... what? LK ? was already written down - unlike MoP's lore.



    For years ? 10man were a joke and treated accordingly in WotLK (aka very poor tweaking). LFR is still pretty new and demanded a few iterations to how they function. Flex just came out. Even then, how condescending of you to dismiss all this work with a simple "oh but they are experienced now right ?"



    It does.

    Says who ? You ? Well ok then !

    You mean, just like ToC was? Talking about complex fights and mechanisms, Hexos is to LK what LK is to Garrosh. So yep, there's that.

    I'm not, you have every right to complain about that, but it's more a problem about the pace at which they released the content than the amount of it.

    I mainly play WoW for it's raiding environment, if it was just my choice we'd have nothing else than raiding content and as much of it as possible. I don't care much for pet battles, I don't care much for scenarios, I don't care much for even PvP. But guess what ? This is content and you can't dismiss it because you personally don't like it. There seems to still be 6M people out there enjoying almost exclusively those little features. Those 4 more dungeons at the start of MoP you wanted so much ? They would be totally irrelevant now. The game has never been more versatile than it is today and is able to answer the needs of many different types of players. Is it a good strategy ? I don't know and it's not the aim of this thread because it is irrelevant to the amount sheer raw content they pull out, which is here no matter if you feel it is aimed towards your envies or not.

    As for the 11 months of "draught" as you so eloquently repeat post after post.
    1. There has always been a long period without content at the end of every single expansion. 2 +/- months isn't enough to declare how little they care anymore or not.
    2. As I've said above this can also be the cause of a very bad (and this is my opinion) pacing in their content. Raiding tiers were very demanding and very tiring for most guilds and could have lasted a good month or two longer - especially with the filler patches.
    3. SoO took roughly twice as long to clear than DS. Making the effective "draught" time somewhat similar if not shorter for MoP in my experience. Also once again, designing and tuning for only half the bosses is a great way to find time for developing the new expansion faster. Ta-da you've found were those 2 months were mysteriously lost.
    It's not true that we got less dungeons because atunements disappeared, as if dungeons had nothing to offer beyond atunements. They were still used as heroic dungeons in every expansion, only in MoP did they become more and more obsolete because of how LFR provided gear for entry into real raiding and as a catch-up mechanism.

    MoP didn't have seven zones, Krasarang and Valley of the Four Winds belonged together, alone they were only smaller parts of a greater zone. They told one story throughout these zones and you could only complete that by playing through both parts of it. Taken alone those two parts would make rather small zones and a lot of Krasarang was filled later with PvP content. The Vale didn't offer the same kind or the same amount of content as other zones did. It wasn't a level up zone and most daily quest content there is now even gone. MoP really had 5 zones - Jade Forest (85), Valley of the Four Winds (including Krasarang)(86), Kun-Lai Summit (87), Townlong Steppes (88) and Dread Wastes (89).

    TBC had 7 and WotLK had 8, that's right, but if you're even counting Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle as zones - which is really ridiculous quite frankly, you should think a bit about what is a real zone in WoW - then you have to count Isle of Quel'danas, Wintergrasp, Crystalsong Forest, Tol Barad, Molten Front - and while we're at it - Eversong Forest, Ghostlands, Azuremyst Isle, Bloodmyst Isle, Kezan, Lost Isles, Gilneas and the Death Knight starting area. That way TBC even had 5 more zones

    When talking about zones, generally what people mean are the zones, on the new continent, that you level up in, and they need to be a certain size and have enough quests and a coherent story.

    When I said they've been balancing different raid difficulties for years I mainly meant heroic and normal which they've done since WotLK and I honestly do believe that they are more experienced at it, than when they started 6 years ago. I don't think that is condescending at all, I'm giving them credit. LFR seems like it's really not that much work. Just take everything away that makes the encounter interesting in the first place.

    But if having to balance these different diffculties is so much work that it takes away from dungeons and zones, then we can expect more in the future right? Because with mythic raiding they are going with only one raid size now, so they don't have to balance 10 and 25 man raids anymore. Less work they have to spend on balancing.

    As for features like the Brawlers Guild and Proving Grounds, they've given us new features in previous expansions as well. WotLK had the LFG tool. Cataclysm had LFR. Vanilla had battlegrounds. TBC had arenas. Yet in TBC and WotLK they were able to give us more dungeons and zones and additional features. And additional content like dailes, new BGs etc.

    The core content of WoW are raids, dungeons and quests. If they introduce pet battles you can't tell me to start enjoying something I don't like so I have something to do in one year of no new content. They can add all the little things they want if there are people who enjoy them as long as they also give new raids, dungeons and quests every couple of months and don't go a year without it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradyne View Post
    It's understandable, they had to do something to offset the revenue they knew they were going to lose with sub losses due to the WOD delays. They were already stretching the art resources to get the character models done & all they had to do was grab & couple of mounts from WOD & release them early. It's not inconceivable that the Warforged nightmare was possibly intended to be for the release of Heroes of the Storm (like the hearthsteed) or possibly as a new RAF mount & it too was put in the cash shop to raise money quickly.
    I can honestly believe that's the case and I think they will continue to put even more on the store, even if it's stuff that was originally supposed to be part of the expansion. Next thing I expect is that they put the Choppers on the store for all those who missed their chance to log in, because they were unsubbed, and those that don't want to pay 100000 gold ingame.
    Last edited by mmocedbf46d113; 2014-08-10 at 06:57 PM.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    TBC had more raid and dungeon content at release than any other expansion and it also added Black Temple in a patch and the Isle of Quel'danas. That's three additional raids after launch and a daily quest area. And the gap between Sunwell and Wrath was only 8 months, which is still bearable. Time between raid patches is often 6 months, so 8 months isn't that terrible. It's only gotten longer over time. Now we're almost at a year and it will likely be over a year.
    Much of that was slated to be included in version 1.0 of WoW but got cut due to time constraints.

  3. #363
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    It's not true that we got less dungeons because atunements disappeared, as if dungeons had nothing to offer beyond atunements. They were still used as heroic dungeons in every expansion, only in MoP did they become more and more obsolete because of how LFR provided gear for entry into real raiding and as a catch-up mechanism.
    Quote Originally Posted by M4D View Post
    As a company, when you see something as resource consuming as dungeons being left out 4 months after release, what is the next logical step ? Doing more dungeons ? Nope. And that's why you get less dungeons (that you seem to enjoy) and more other stuff (that others might enjoy).
    Atonements gave some kind of use to dungeons while also making sure that a lot of people couldn't even do more than just that. Hence why they were so popular back then, LK offered a great deal of dungeons and they themselves admitted that they were vastly underused later in the expansion's life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    MoP didn't have seven zones, Krasarang and Valley of the Four Winds belonged together, alone they were only smaller parts of a greater zone. They told one story throughout these zones and you could only complete that by playing through both parts of it. Taken alone those two parts would make rather small zones and a lot of Krasarang was filled later with PvP content. The Vale didn't offer the same kind or the same amount of content as other zones did. It wasn't a level up zone and most daily quest content there is now even gone. MoP really had 5 zones - Jade Forest (85), Valley of the Four Winds (including Krasarang)(86), Kun-Lai Summit (87), Townlong Steppes (88) and Dread Wastes (89). TBC had 7 and WotLK had 8, that's right, but if you're even counting Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle as zones - which is really ridiculous quite frankly, you should think a bit about what is a real zone in WoW - then you have to count Isle of Quel'danas, Wintergrasp, Crystalsong Forest, Tol Barad, Molten Front - and while we're at it - Eversong Forest, Ghostlands, Azuremyst Isle, Bloodmyst Isle, Kezan, Lost Isles, Gilneas and the Death Knight starting area. That way TBC even had 5 more zones
    We're not talking zones available at the start of the expansions but overall content. So yes, compare everything you just pointed out. Vanilla and Cata will come out on top - of course - the 3 others have arguably the same amount of zones / questing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    When I said they've been balancing different raid difficulties for years I mainly meant heroic and normal which they've done since WotLK and I honestly do believe that they are more experienced at it, than when they started 6 years ago. I don't think that is condescending at all, I'm giving them credit. LFR seems like it's really not that much work. Just take everything away that makes the encounter interesting in the first place.
    Balancing NM and Heroic is way easier than balancing 10 with 25. Making a hard version and an easy version is easy but tuning 2 raid sizes to be almost identical in difficulty, when in their essence they aren't, is not an easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    But if having to balance these different diffculties is so much work that it takes away from dungeons and zones, then we can expect more in the future right? Because with mythic raiding they are going with only one raid size now, so they don't have to balance 10 and 25 man raids anymore. Less work they have to spend on balancing.
    And this was one of their numerous arguments for mythical 20, having mythical raid will allow them to spend less time on tuning the hardest and most challenging difficulty the game has to offer. I would however take this with a grain of salt since NM and HM will be flexible and that feels like a hell of work to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    As for features like the Brawlers Guild and Proving Grounds, they've given us new features in previous expansions as well. WotLK had the LFG tool. Cataclysm had LFR. Vanilla had battlegrounds. TBC had arenas. Yet in TBC and WotLK they were able to give us more dungeons and zones and additional features. And additional content like dailes, new BGs etc.
    And we have Flex. And we have CM. And we got 3 new BG's and an overwhelming number of dailies. And we had a legendary quest running it's course all expansion long. Along all the other extra stuff we've had that we both mentioned. On the additional content contest, MoP wins everyday hands down and by a large margin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    The core content of WoW are raids, dungeons and quests. If they introduce pet battles you can't tell me to start enjoying something I don't like so I have something to do in one year of no new content. They can add all the little things they want if there are people who enjoy them as long as they also give new raids, dungeons and quests every couple of months and don't go a year without it.
    Once again you fail to see things out of your only perspective. I am not asking you anything other than acknowledging the existence of content which you are prone to dismiss as it doesn't suits your view of what the game shall be. However the content is there, it exists, no matter how loud you might claim otherwise.

    I mean, the more I think about it what's your case here ? You are arguing that we didn't get as many 5man dungeons and that we're waiting 2more months than usually, right ? That's it ? And therefore you think those 5man dungeons clearly represented a work load vastly superior to the multitude of extra content MoP brought.

    Even counting solely the PvE content I don't feel MoP is lacking in any shape or form, quite the contrary - I'll break it down very roughly, we lost around 6 dungeons in MoP while gaining 27 scenarios. We have 15 more bosses than in Cataclysm (yes 15, that's 50% more than in Cata) 6 less than in WotLK (I really shouldn't count Naxx at all but nvmd) and as many as in TBC. All the while being richer mechanic wise - thus more work demanding, and I'm not even talking about tuning 6 difficulties.
    Even PvP wise we've had more new BGs than ever.


    OT : Since your title changed, I'll address the question directly. Your logic is 2014's money > 2013's money, therefore cash shop is the reason they make more money, therefore they don't care about the game anymore just cash shop (I'm extrapolating but that the big lines)
    But Blizzard is a company and their aim is to make money right ? So in any case, even if they make a crapton of money out of mount or not, their aim will be the have as many subscribers as possible. Making a mount is litterally 0 in ressources, do you really think that their mentality is the following ? "Hey since we're making so much money out of shitty mounts lets bring less content right ? I mean who cares about subscribers !" No, the 2 are not mutually exclusive, they 'could' have both, why would they feel less pressure when they could theoretically win a lot more ? Does that even make any sense ? That they make enough money with cash mounts that they stop caring about subs ?
    We've got more WoW than ever, content wise, PR wise, news wise, you fail to realise it but they keep having more people working on WoW, why would that be ? To design a new cash mount you think ? It makes no sense business wise to have a draught. They lose subs and they get people angry, they know that, but it still happens, it's still an issue that they seem to have a hard time dealing with, and I'm pretty sure they don't go around in the office thinking "hey, it's alright guys we made money with the cash store, don't worry about those 3M loss"

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by M4D View Post
    Even counting solely the PvE content I don't feel MoP is lacking in any shape or form, quite the contrary - I'll break it down very roughly, we lost around 6 dungeons in MoP while gaining 27 scenarios. We have 15 more bosses than in Cataclysm (yes 15, that's 50% more than in Cata) 6 less than in WotLK (I really shouldn't count Naxx at all but nvmd) and as many as in TBC. All the while being richer mechanic wise - thus more work demanding, and I'm not even talking about tuning 6 difficulties.
    Even PvP wise we've had more new BGs than ever.
    Pretty much. There is a lot of content. And with each new expansion they add new types of content, making each future expansion more work than the last to produce similar amounts of each content.

    OT : Since your title changed, I'll address the question directly. Your logic is 2014's money > 2013's money, therefore cash shop is the reason they make more money, therefore they don't care about the game anymore just cash shop (I'm extrapolating but that the big lines)
    But Blizzard is a company and their aim is to make money right ? So in any case, even if they make a crapton of money out of mount or not, their aim will be the have as many subscribers as possible. Making a mount is litterally 0 in ressources, do you really think that their mentality is the following ? "Hey since we're making so much money out of shitty mounts lets bring less content right ? I mean who cares about subscribers !" No, the 2 are not mutually exclusive, they 'could' have both, why would they feel less pressure when they could theoretically win a lot more ? Does that even make any sense ? That they make enough money with cash mounts that they stop caring about subs ?
    We've got more WoW than ever, content wise, PR wise, news wise, you fail to realise it but they keep having more people working on WoW, why would that be ? To design a new cash mount you think ? It makes no sense business wise to have a draught. They lose subs and they get people angry, they know that, but it still happens, it's still an issue that they seem to have a hard time dealing with, and I'm pretty sure they don't go around in the office thinking "hey, it's alright guys we made money with the cash store, don't worry about those 3M loss"

    I like you. lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
    Laurellen - Druid Smiteyou - lol holy dps

  5. #365
    Herald of the Titans Tech Priest Bojangles's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    2,859
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradyne View Post
    Both the fey dragon & the Iron Skyreaver are used by NPCs & flight points in the beta currently for WOD. This presents two possibilities either they were always intended to be WOD mounts but for some reason were brought forward to the cash shop during MOP (to which they do not relate in any lore fashion) to help raise revenue.
    I want to add my own thoughts to this.
    The fey dragon is clearly a draenei racial mount, another racial mount in WoD is the grinning reaver which belongs to a clan of crazy orcs called the laughing skulls. Both draenei and laughing skulls have a faction available through the trading post and i'm thinking the mounts used to be tied to that rep but eventually Blizzard decided to throw them in the shop instead. Which is lame.
    -=From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the blessed machine. Your kind claimed your flesh as if it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass that you call a temple will wither, and you will beg my kind to save you... But I am already saved..... For the machine is immortal=-

  6. #366
    there's less pressure to address any negatives because the blizzard defense force screams louder than anyone else.

  7. #367
    If they can be in a position where the cash shops revenue is better or equal to the amount of subscriptions lost then it makes sense business wise to manipulate and prioritize the cash shop more than jump through hoops to build and keep players.

    I don't understand how some people in here actually think cash shop items have no affect on resources or anything else to do with WoW.
    They actually believe it's all "spare" time.

    Blizzard is a bui$ne$$ after all.

  8. #368
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tralfamadore
    Posts
    32,405
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    TBC had even more raid content at launch than any other expansion after that, and they were able to put out even more 5-man dungeons at launch than in WotLK.
    Five or six years to develop the game before launch allows that to happen. Most of BC was well along before vanilla launch. It's how MMO's are developed. Once you run out of all the stuff that was pre-developed things slow down. It's happened with every MMO that I can think of.

    They could probably do it again if you were willing to wait another couple of years for the next expansion.

    Even with all of that they pretty much used a lot of the same art assets for sets of BC dungeons.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2014-08-11 at 03:54 AM.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  9. #369
    Yes

    Why: What matters is revenues not sub numbers, so if they can pull out more money by more cash stuff and less content they will do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedGamer030 View Post
    I do not need to be constructive in this thread, nor provide an argument. There is nothing here to actually debate. Your reasoning is flawed and thusly you have no argument.
    ↑ Epitome of Internet Logic

  10. #370
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    Yes

    Why: What matters is revenues not sub numbers, so if they can pull out more money by more cash stuff and less content they will do so.
    Yes, I guess that holds in (strictly) business theory (though I'd say it's a shaky agument at best) and that leads to the one and only relevant question in this thread - how much money do they make from selling cash shop items?
    I don't know how you could even have a sane argument without knowing how much revenue the cash shop items generate. They don't report the numbers anywhere, so we're just guessing wildly and (I guess mostly) whining because we don't like the shop.

  11. #371
    Doing one mount every couple of months does not create a content drought, nor does it solve one.

  12. #372
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    I don't understand how some people in here actually think cash shop items have no affect on resources or anything else to do with WoW.
    They actually believe it's all "spare" time.
    No, I don't actually think anyone believes that.

    What they believe is that the cash shop items don't necessarily have to be produced by the same team that designs raids and dungeons. Or even the WoW team at all.

    The bottom line is - we don't know how Blizzard's internal organization works.

  13. #373
    Dreadlord MetroStratics's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    wow.stratics.com
    Posts
    951
    "Drought" applies its unexpected.
    This is not a "drought."

    This is what happens at the end of expansions now-a-days.
    Nothing to be concerned about. Work on getting 20k achievement points if you haven't.
    WoW Moderator and Staff Editor at Stratics-WoW!
    http://wow.stratics.com/ - A World of Warcraft Fansite dedicated to lively opinions on the important topics within the game.
    Co-owner of AcegamesTV!
    https://www.youtube.com/acegamestv - A general gaming network focused on high quality variety content!

  14. #374
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Five or six years to develop the game before launch allows that to happen. Most of BC was well along before vanilla launch. It's how MMO's are developed. Once you run out of all the stuff that was pre-developed things slow down. It's happened with every MMO that I can think of.

    They could probably do it again if you were willing to wait another couple of years for the next expansion.

    Even with all of that they pretty much used a lot of the same art assets for sets of BC dungeons.
    Do we have any evidence that they developed TBC raids in the same five or six years they developed the core game? I heard speculation that they planned Karazhan for Vanilla, but I'm not sure if that's proven. All I really know of is a very unfinished Hellfire Peninsula that was already in the game files for Vanilla. I don't see any evidence that suggests that they developed Karazhan, Tempest Keep, Serpentshrine Cavern, Gruul, Magtheridon, Mount Hyjal, Black Temple and Sunwell before they released the core game and just held it back for later, I don't see any reason to suggest that they didn't develope all of these during Vanilla.

    "Most of BC" already developed "well before Vanilla launch". That's a very bold statement, especially considering they decided for the Draenei as a playable race so late.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by M4D View Post
    Atonements gave some kind of use to dungeons while also making sure that a lot of people couldn't even do more than just that. Hence why they were so popular back then, LK offered a great deal of dungeons and they themselves admitted that they were vastly underused later in the expansion's life.


    We're not talking zones available at the start of the expansions but overall content. So yes, compare everything you just pointed out. Vanilla and Cata will come out on top - of course - the 3 others have arguably the same amount of zones / questing.


    Balancing NM and Heroic is way easier than balancing 10 with 25. Making a hard version and an easy version is easy but tuning 2 raid sizes to be almost identical in difficulty, when in their essence they aren't, is not an easy.


    And this was one of their numerous arguments for mythical 20, having mythical raid will allow them to spend less time on tuning the hardest and most challenging difficulty the game has to offer. I would however take this with a grain of salt since NM and HM will be flexible and that feels like a hell of work to do.


    And we have Flex. And we have CM. And we got 3 new BG's and an overwhelming number of dailies. And we had a legendary quest running it's course all expansion long. Along all the other extra stuff we've had that we both mentioned. On the additional content contest, MoP wins everyday hands down and by a large margin.


    Once again you fail to see things out of your only perspective. I am not asking you anything other than acknowledging the existence of content which you are prone to dismiss as it doesn't suits your view of what the game shall be. However the content is there, it exists, no matter how loud you might claim otherwise.

    I mean, the more I think about it what's your case here ? You are arguing that we didn't get as many 5man dungeons and that we're waiting 2more months than usually, right ? That's it ? And therefore you think those 5man dungeons clearly represented a work load vastly superior to the multitude of extra content MoP brought.

    Even counting solely the PvE content I don't feel MoP is lacking in any shape or form, quite the contrary - I'll break it down very roughly, we lost around 6 dungeons in MoP while gaining 27 scenarios. We have 15 more bosses than in Cataclysm (yes 15, that's 50% more than in Cata) 6 less than in WotLK (I really shouldn't count Naxx at all but nvmd) and as many as in TBC. All the while being richer mechanic wise - thus more work demanding, and I'm not even talking about tuning 6 difficulties.
    Even PvP wise we've had more new BGs than ever.


    OT : Since your title changed, I'll address the question directly. Your logic is 2014's money > 2013's money, therefore cash shop is the reason they make more money, therefore they don't care about the game anymore just cash shop (I'm extrapolating but that the big lines)
    But Blizzard is a company and their aim is to make money right ? So in any case, even if they make a crapton of money out of mount or not, their aim will be the have as many subscribers as possible. Making a mount is litterally 0 in ressources, do you really think that their mentality is the following ? "Hey since we're making so much money out of shitty mounts lets bring less content right ? I mean who cares about subscribers !" No, the 2 are not mutually exclusive, they 'could' have both, why would they feel less pressure when they could theoretically win a lot more ? Does that even make any sense ? That they make enough money with cash mounts that they stop caring about subs ?
    We've got more WoW than ever, content wise, PR wise, news wise, you fail to realise it but they keep having more people working on WoW, why would that be ? To design a new cash mount you think ? It makes no sense business wise to have a draught. They lose subs and they get people angry, they know that, but it still happens, it's still an issue that they seem to have a hard time dealing with, and I'm pretty sure they don't go around in the office thinking "hey, it's alright guys we made money with the cash store, don't worry about those 3M loss"
    How do TBC and MoP have the same amount of zones, can you not count? Even if you count Timeless Isle, it doesnt add up.

    Great if mythic means they have to spend less time balancing, we can expect more dungeons in the future then?

    I didn't say that pet battles and all the other things don't exist, stop using pet battles and all that stuff as an excuse for the content drought. We've always had similar features in other expansions as well that at least took the same amount of time if not more. You can't possibly be serious when you say that Brawler's Guild being added in post-launch as a single location that has a couple of underwhelming, not so complex "boss fights", is the reason why they started to give us less dungeons even one expansion earlier.

    Equally scenarios don't require the same amount of work as a dungeon and they don't offer the same amount of content or quality either. Scenarios are usually created in environments that already exist. Taking an already existing location like part of an island in Krasarang and putting an NPC there that escorts you to a keg, isn't nearly the same amount of work as creating a whole new dungeon with new environments, new art and new bosses. Scenarios certainly take some work, but the general opinion about them, as I have heard from people, seems to be that they are nice, but not that exciting. People want more dungeons. That has been the feedback from people after they've added no new dungeons post-launch in MoP and after 5 man dungeons have completely lost importance over the course of the expansion. They even made the dungeons much smaller and with fewer bosses than they used to be. There was the occasional dungeon with 2 or 3 bosses in TBC and WotLK but it was more common for dungeons to have 4 or 5 bosses, and that has become a rarity. They've just put less and less work into creating a lot of good dungeons with large environments and lots of bosses. In WotLK and TBC, when you were leveling up, most of the time you reached a level there was a new dungeon you could visit, sometimes even more than one, and that over the course of 10 levels. At the release of MoP we had four dungeons when leveling up while the rest was added at max level. It quite honestly has gone too far. They need to give is more dungeons, more complex dungeons and make 5 man dungeons much more important both while leveling up and in endgame. A lot of people like myself really enjoyed 5 man dungeons epecially as part of the endgame. They've gone a completely wrong direction with this.

    I'm not saying they don't want to make more money, but putting in a filler patch to address the 11 month content drought takes effort. They have to put out more content than they do now, and if the people quitting over this content drought and the money lost from this is less severe because of other money they are making somewhere else almost effortlessly, then I think that puts less pressure on them to actually step up their game.

    Stop acting as if these 11 months of no new content are normal. It has only gotten worse with every expansion. 12 months of ICC were bad, but we had Ruby Sanctum in between, that is better than 11 months with no filler patch at all, or even longer, since it will likely be somewhat between 13-15 months of no new content, depending on when they expansion will hit between October and December. That is over a year. That is longer than the time between release of MoP and the last content patch we got.
    Last edited by mmocedbf46d113; 2014-08-11 at 02:31 PM.

  15. #375
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    How do TBC and MoP have the same amount of zones, can you not count? Even if you count Timeless Isle, it doesnt add up.
    What is it that you don't understand in "arguably the same amount of zones / questing" ? If you however have access to documents proving otherwise I encourage you to bring them to this post asap because then you could at least base one argument on concrete evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Great if mythic means they have to spend less time balancing, we can expect more dungeons in the future then?
    Once again it seems you can't read my words but I'll let you re-read what I already said 3 times about dungeons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    I didn't say that pet battles and all the other things don't exist, stop using pet battles and all that stuff as an excuse for the content drought. We've always had similar features in other expansions as well that at least took the same amount of time if not more.
    No, we did not. Not even close.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    You can't possibly be serious when you say that Brawler's Guild being added in post-launch as a single location that has a couple of underwhelming, not so complex "boss fights", is the reason why they started to give us less dungeons even one expansion earlier.
    Once again, you say brawler's Guild, I say ToC. Less tuning of course, but still not something you'd do overnight. Is it content you can't discredit it. Also it is well known how complex bosses are in said dungeons right ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Equally scenarios don't require the same amount of work as a dungeon and they don't offer the same amount of content or quality either.
    Indeed, but 27 scenarios might compare to a few dungeons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    but the general opinion about them, as I have heard from people, seems to be that they are nice, but not that exciting. People want more dungeons.
    Blizzard did communicate however that scenarios worked a lot better than they thought they would and that they were a success - hence why they did make so many of them.
    People want more dungeons ? Says who ? You ? Then there is clearly a divergence between what people want and what people actually play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    That has been the feedback from people after they've added no new dungeons post-launch in MoP and after 5 man dungeons have completely lost importance over the course of the expansion.
    3 expansions you mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    They even made the dungeons much smaller and with fewer bosses than they used to be. There was the occasional dungeon with 2 or 3 bosses in TBC and WotLK but it was more common for dungeons to have 4 or 5 bosses, and that has become a rarity. They've just put less and less work into creating a lot of good dungeons with large environments and lots of bosses.
    And yet it was a whine fest on every single forum about how long and hard dungeons were. I remember 3h + run in the new heroic Deadmines, I had a blast, but what you want isn't what everyone wants.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    In WotLK and TBC, when you were leveling up, most of the time you reached a level there was a new dungeon you could visit, sometimes even more than one, and that over the course of 10 levels. At the release of MoP we had four dungeons when leveling up while the rest was added at max level. It quite honestly has gone too far. They need to give is more dungeons, more complex dungeons and make 5 man dungeons much more important both while leveling up and in endgame. A lot of people like myself really enjoyed 5 man dungeons epecially as part of the endgame. They've gone a completely wrong direction with this.
    Maybe, who knows. If someone had the universal answer to what is the right direction to take they would gladly follow it. I for one couldn't care less about dungeons, I run them over and over for the 2 first weeks and then I'm done for the rest of the expansion. They have never offered any kind of challenge and can't offer any challenge because they are targeted at random pug groups.
    I'd rather have them spend their time on something else than something I'll get bored with in 2 weeks, that is my opinion and apparently theirs as well.



    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    I'm not saying they don't want to make more money, but putting in a filler patch to address the 11 month content drought takes effort. They have to put out more content than they do now, and if the people quitting over this content drought and the money lost from this is less severe because of other money they are making somewhere else almost effortlessly, then I think that puts less pressure on them to actually step up their game.
    Don't you think they weighted the pro's and con's ? Moreover, less subs = less potential buyers for the cash shop. What you are implying makes no sense business wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Stop acting as if these 11 months of no new content are normal. It has only gotten worse with every expansion. 12 months of ICC were bad, but we had Ruby Sanctum in between, that is better than 11 months with no filler patch at all, or even longer, since it will likely be somewhat between 13-15 months of no new content, depending on when they expansion will hit between October and December. That is over a year. That is longer than the time between release of MoP and the last content patch we got.
    Stop acting as if these 11 months of no new content is something we've never seen before and that MoP is void of content when it has been one of the most filled out expansion ever.

    You really seem very pissed off about the lack of dungeons but you're a bit late for that train. Yes we've had less dungeons and less effort was put into them, this is no new info and no one argues about that. Yet 6 less dungeons can't be used as the only argument to prove how much blizzard lacks in terms of effort and pressure to step up their game, as they represent only a fraction of what WoW is nowadays. If anything it tells how they envision the present and future of their game and the direction they're going in regarding said dungeons.

    On the other hand we've had great raids all expansion long, a ton of new extra features and a few tries at making casual content like TI all this along with all the things we're accustomed to : new class, new art, new raid feature, new spells, new bgs and the list goes on...

    I am not saying WoW is perfect or anything, in my opinion they did a lot of bad calls and they take some design decisions that are outright bad, but once again this is not representative of the workload poured into the game, merely how this workload is exploited. They could have done a filler raid like you seem so fond of, designing an open arena and a boss inside it like Halion is nothing more complicated than designing Ordos you see, yet you would have deemed that "pressure to step up their game" worthy. The truth is they decided not to, for one reason or another and you're have diverging opinions on the matter. In no way does it mean they're not working their ass off as we speak, it just means they're not doing what you want.

  16. #376
    Deleted
    Just picking out a few lines, because quite frankly, the posts will grow larger and larger and harder to look over.

    Quote Originally Posted by M4D View Post
    arguably the same amount of zones / questing
    TBC and WotLK clearly have more zones and quests than MoP, and if we exclude the revamped level 1-60 zones, also Cataclysm. In no way do they have the same. I've already listed all the zones that we can include if you want to also include little islands like Timeless Isle, and there are clearly more in TBC and WotLK. If you take a look at the achievements for questing you'll see how many quests there are in each zone, you can do the math if you want to. And keep in mind that TBC and WotLK often had exclusive quests for Horde and Alliance in zones. WotLK just had the most quests, because there were the most zones and zones often offered completely different quests for Alliance and Horde. TBC had 2 additional zones for each race to add.

    Quote Originally Posted by M4D View Post
    No, we did not. Not even close.
    Yes, and I've mentioned enough of them already several times. Battlegrounds, arena, LFG, LFR, transmog, void storage, archeology, new holiday events, cross-realm zones, connected realms. Now I know that a lot of them don't provide any direct new content, but they are still all features they worked on either for the release of the expansion or while the expansion was running. They've always created new features. Brawler's Guild and all the other stuff wasn't the first time they've spend resources on creating new features. They've done it every expansion. This can't be the reason why they started to give us fewer dungeons. The reason is simply that they chose to give us fewer dungeons because they thought it would be enough for people.

    Quote Originally Posted by M4D View Post
    People want more dungeons ? Says who ? You ? Then there is clearly a divergence between what people want and what people actually play.
    People said that people want more dungeons. It has been discussed here and at the official forums a lot. A lot of people were disappointed when they said they wouldn't add more dungeons in for MoP post launch. This has been criticized a lot and Ion Hazzikostas admitted at Blizzcon that they should try and get more out. You want to say that because people do less dungeons it means they don't want to do dungeons anymore? Players don't do so many dungeons anymore because there are better ways to gear up. It was replaced as a catch-up mechanism for gear by other things. People will always do the content they feel is most beneficiary to them. And of course dungeons got too easy. Dungeons could be the most beautiful content in the game - and quite frankly it should be - but if you put better loot in chests on an island, they'll go there instead. It doesn't mean that the island is better content. I think they even upped the rewards for scenarios at some point because people wouldn't do them.

    Quote Originally Posted by M4D View Post
    Stop acting as if these 11 months of no new content is something we've never seen before and that MoP is void of content when it has been one of the most filled out expansion ever.
    It has never happened before. Ever. Like, quite literally this has never happened before. We've never gone this long without new content. Of course MoP isn't void of content, I've never said that. The first year of MoP was great. The second year had nothing. No content. And that's a problem. And I'm only repeating it so often because every time I say it you say it's not a big deal and pretend we have to deal with it all the time and there is literally no other way it would work. It's a problem and Blizzard acknowledged that, stating that they were aiming for a 1-year expansion cycle. Little did we know they meant 1 year of content and 1 year of no content.
    Last edited by mmocedbf46d113; 2014-08-11 at 05:58 PM.

  17. #377
    Elemental Lord Sierra85's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    getting a coffee
    Posts
    8,490
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradyne View Post
    Both the fey dragon & the Iron Skyreaver are used by NPCs & flight points in the beta currently for WOD. This presents two possibilities either they were always intended to be WOD mounts but for some reason were brought forward to the cash shop during MOP (to which they do not relate in any lore fashion) to help raise revenue. Or alternatively as another development cost cutting exercise they decided to re-use the cash shop mounts & save creating new ones for WOD.
    Theres nothing wrong with blizzard re-using content in different settings. It doesn't effect the game. If it raises more revenue to pay for WoD, well thats great.
    Hi

  18. #378
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    Theres nothing wrong with blizzard re-using content in different settings. It doesn't effect the game. If it raises more revenue to pay for WoD, well thats great.
    Seeing how there is a faction in WoD that breeds these fey dragons, I think that lends credence to the idea that it was originally supposed to be a reputation reward from that faction. Imagine they would've put the Cloud Serpent on the store. Then you encounter the Order of the Cloud Serpent. "Well that certainly would've been a good place for people to get the Cloud Serpent from."

    Of course it makes sense for them to reuse creatures when there's a good opportunity to do so, but it gives them an excuse to just pull mounts out of an expansion and charge players separately for it. Then they can say "it was never supposed to be in the expansion".

  19. #379
    yes, they made 200 million last year on microtransactions they dont need subs anymore. Until 1 million people are left playing the game they arent concerned.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by oldschoolrogueplayer View Post
    yes, they made 200 million last year on microtransactions they dont need subs anymore.
    Right, because there's no relationship between those two things. I'm sure a ton of that $200M came from people who don't subscribe to the game...

    Is it no longer common for people to read what they type before submitting it as a cogent thought?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •