Peaceful Protest Over Mike Brown Shooting Turns Violent

[belfpala]

Not even close to being the same really.

Unless the man assualts her, she doesn't have the right to mace him.

Wait. I thought this entire thing about Trayvon was that Zimmerman was following him. Under this logic, if Zimmerman confronts Trayvon, Trayvon has the right to respond with force. Correct?

(Incorrect in my opinion, but we'll differ on why.)

[triplesdsu]

Wait. I thought this entire thing about Trayvon was that Zimmerman was following him. Under this logic, if Zimmerman confronts Trayvon, Trayvon has the right to respond with force. Correct?

(Incorrect in my opinion, but we'll differ on why.)

If by confronting him with force then yes. The problem at trial was they couldn't prove that Zimmerman attacked him first. That and one persons self defense doesn't necessary preclude the other person'a defense as well. Thus regardless if TM was "defending" himself, once he was on top pounding dudes head in the ground, Gz could shoot fearing his life was in danger.

[belfpala]

If by confronting him with force then yes. The problem at trial was they couldn't prove that Zimmerman attacked him first. That and one persons self defense doesn't necessary preclude the other person'a defense as well. Thus regardless if TM was "defending" himself, once he was on top pounding dudes head in the ground, Gz could shoot fearing his life was in danger.

I wasn't at all commenting on the legal disposition. I was questioning the basic logic that self defense requires an actual assault/battery. The grandmother mentioned in the specifics above should damn well have her mace out if someone is following her.

[Theinquisition]

Wait. I thought this entire thing about Trayvon was that Zimmerman was following him. Under this logic, if Zimmerman confronts Trayvon, Trayvon has the right to respond with force. Correct?

(Incorrect in my opinion, but we'll differ on why.)

Zimmerman didn't begin the physical confrontation. Trayvon thought he saw an easy mark and attacked.

[prwraith]

So rather than reading through all this can we get a short update as to what's actually happening and has happened?

[Tinch]

hind sight is 20/20 huh.

When that 17 year old is in much better shape, and is aggressivly trying to pound someones head into the pavement, they are a threat. period.


He knew what he was shooting at. Someone who was on top of him, attempting to beat him to death.

Except his injuries were described as non-life threatening and very insignificant, hardly consistent with someone who has had their head pounded into the pavement by someone who is trying to kill them is it.

[NYC17]

By defintion, approaching someone who you know is following you and macing them is initiating a confrontation.

Especially if they kill you and claim you initiated the confrontation thereby allowing all kinds of forum posters to claim things that aren't factual as factual, in rather weak attempts to prove a point. Or...allow them to believe they've won an argument.

For example...

"Zimmerman didn't begin the physical confrontation. Trayvon thought he saw an easy mark and attacked."

[Themius]

An observation would be me "observing" how you decided not to use the reply with quote function to address the poster in dialogue and you lashing out at someone else who could've easily mistook what you said to be directed at him. Don't necessarily need to proclaim your observations to make them an observation either.

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By defintion, approaching someone who you know is following you and macing them is initiating a confrontation.

Wording is very very very important.

They said "maces a guy who was following her" not "confronts and maces the guy" your wording of "approaching someone who is following you" gives a different mental image of turning around going to them and macing them, vs turning around and macing the person who is close enough to you.

[Ebildays]

So rather than reading through all this can we get a short update as to what's actually happening and has happened?

Nothing has happened, I guess they trying to wait until everything is really calm and settled down before releasing more information. This same thing is happening with the Ohio Walmart shooting as well. No new information or any information for that matter.

[oxymoronic]

Not even close to being the same really.

Unless the man assualts her, she doesn't have the right to mace him.

reminds me of the treyvon thing... why do people think they can assault somebody they perceive as following them.

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Wording is very very very important.

They said "maces a guy who was following her" not "confronts and maces the guy" your wording of "approaching someone who is following you" gives a different mental image of turning around going to them and macing them, vs turning around and macing the person who is close enough to you.

guess themius has deemed somebody close enough to you = following and thus mace is logical. yeah i dont get it either.

[NYC17]

reminds me of the treyvon thing... why do people think they can assault somebody they perceive as following them.

How exactly is that the "Trayvon thing"? Oh, right, you're assuming again.

[Theinquisition]

Except his injuries were described as non-life threatening and very insignificant, hardly consistent with someone who has had their head pounded into the pavement by someone who is trying to kill them is it.

there were extensive wounds on the back of ZimZam's skull and were consistant with someone who was reapeatedly having their head slammed into the ground. Besides when something like that is going on, you aren't thinking about wether or not the person is going to kill you and the appropriate amount of force to bring to bear. You would be concerned about ending the threat before they have a chance to kill you.

At the end of the day, Trayvon made a choice to take the confrontation to a physical level. If he hadn't done that he'd still be alive today.

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Especially if they kill you and claim you initiated the confrontation thereby allowing all kinds of forum posters to claim things that aren't factual as factual, in rather weak attempts to prove a point. Or...allow them to believe they've won an argument.

For example...

"Zimmerman didn't begin the physical confrontation. Trayvon thought he saw an easy mark and attacked."

The statement was correct.

Sorry if your delusions of Trayvon being a great kid don't quite hold up to reality, the same as with Mr. Brown.

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Nothing has happened, I guess they trying to wait until everything is really calm and settled down before releasing more information. This same thing is happening with the Ohio Walmart shooting as well. No new information or any information for that matter.

It's for the best really.

[Tinykong]

People are still crying over the Zimmerman case? He was acquitted, FFS.

[twelvethirty]

People are still crying over the Zimmerman case? He was acquitted, FFS.

white guilt is a disease

[Captain N]

white guilt is a disease

George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin were both non-white.

[Tinykong]

George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin were both non-white.

According to many, George Zimmer is a Hispanic who identifies as white.

[Theinquisition]

According to many, George Zimmer is a Hispanic who identifies as white.

Lol, he's white as long as someone needs him to be white to claim victimhood status.

[lockedout]

According to many, George Zimmer is a Hispanic who identifies as white.

I'm a white who identifies as a unicorn.

[belfpala]

According to many, George Zimmer is a Hispanic who identifies as white.

People are still confused by the US Census Bureau definitions?

People who identify their origin as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be of any race.

Clear?

[NYC17]

there were extensive wounds on the back of ZimZam's skull and were consistant with someone who was reapeatedly having their head slammed into the ground. Besides when something like that is going on, you aren't thinking about wether or not the person is going to kill you and the appropriate amount of force to bring to bear. You would be concerned about ending the threat before they have a chance to kill you.

At the end of the day, Trayvon made a choice to take the confrontation to a physical level. If he hadn't done that he'd still be alive today.

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The statement was correct.

Sorry if your delusions of Trayvon being a great kid don't quite hold up to reality, the same as with Mr. Brown.

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It's for the best really.

The statement was not correct. It is indeterminable who began the confrontation. It's the indeterminable nature of it that helped Zimmerman avoid a guilty verdict. It has nothing to do with what kind of kid he was or wasn't. Concluding things based solely on someone's opposition to your nonsense isn't very wise, especially when you're just so chock full of it. I know you have trouble separating facts from the bullshit you "know", but you really shouldn't argue basic things.

And to do it so self assuredly. That takes a special kind of...