Unemployed Stigma

[grimsanta]

I do think there are far more people on disability than there are truly people who are sufficiently disabled to prevent them from working. I think disability is often used by people who are uncomfortable about the idea of the stress of a work environment to avoid it, and also used by people who have given up finding work to get a consistent income without dealing with the hassle of unemployment. There are of course also a lot of people who legitimately have a disability that would prevent them from working.

But the numbers are staggering, when compared to the total size of the labor force. It's too much:

http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

14 million people is 9% of the total US labor force of 157 million. I don't believe that fully 9% of Americans are disabled to the point of being unable to work.

So in other words, because the numbers don't line up with what your view on what they should be is, they can't be correct.

As a worker for Social Security, let me break that 14 million down a bit for you. When someone becomes entitled to Social Security disability, either SSI (needs based)or SSDI(payroll tax based), they must be either a patient who is experiencing End Stage Renal disease, or have a disability that prevents them from working for 1 year.

A lot of people will meet that 1 year requirement sometime in their lifetime. A lot. However, even after they are better, we don't just immediately cut benefits, we let them try to work, try to get back on their feet, all while continuing to do medical reviews (if they are 100% better, then yes, we cut them off benefits). This keeps people from having to reapply just because they THOUGHT they could go back to work.

Now, yes, there are people who are receiving benefits who aren't disabled, but most who receive are, according to the rules that we have set. Out of the 14 million, nearly half are back to work, and are either in suspense or receiving significantly reduced checks. That brings us to 7 million who aren't working, and are claiming disability.

Is that a more believable number for you? Because now we get into fraud. It's estimated there are roughly 2 million currently receiving who are fraudulent. So now we're at 5 million people who are disabled and aren't working.

Is that a more believeable number for you? 5 million are actually disabled, 7 million were disabled and are recovering (yet for counting, are still considered "disabled"), and 2 million are lying about it.

[Reeve]

Yup, I don't see that as undoable either. I would hopefully have the energy to do so after working for a day, or do it on weekends. I'm just choosing not to.

Yeah, I did school 2 days a week, either Mon/Wed or Tue/Thur and worked the other 5 days, 8 hour shifts. It's important to make sure you take a shift off at least one day a month, though, so that you can take care of business with stuff that's only open during the daytime, like haircuts, car washes, etc.

[Tirivaria]

Back pain is another big one like that. I myself have chronic flank pain. It really REALLY doesn't prevent me from working.

It depends on the skills a person has though. If you have the skills to do a desk job, then back pain/injury either wouldn't affect you or could be accommodated in some way. But if all you have is a high school diploma then chances are the only jobs you could are in service or retail and typically employers at those jobs specifically prohibit employees from sitting down during their shifts. So then a person with chronic back problems who shouldn't be standing for long periods is medically unfit for any of the jobs he or she could get. I actually heard an NPR story on the radio about this sort of thing some time ago. They can't physically perform any of the jobs available to them. It presents a question to society as to what can and should we expect from these people.

[MerinPally]

what makes it infinitely worse is that my (now retired) in-laws are moving down from Stockton to be closer to me.

:/

Grim news is still on the horizon, a NEXT has closed down nearby. One of my friends at uni works there when she goes home (Solihull) and she mentioned that there was no longer a job waiting for her as the shop was closing down.

Whatever will you do?

[Rukentuts]

It depends on the skills a person has though. If you have the skills to do a desk job, then back pain/injury either wouldn't affect you or could be accommodated in some way. But if all you have is a high school diploma then chances are the only jobs you could are in service or retail and typically employers at those jobs specifically prohibit employees from sitting down during their shifts. So then a person with chronic back problems who shouldn't be standing for long periods is medically unfit for any of the jobs he or she could get. I actually heard an NPR story on the radio about this sort of thing some time ago. They can't physically perform any of the jobs available to them. It presents a question to society as to what can and should we expect from these people.

In which case it would be better for cost and the economy as a whole to retrain them rather than pay them off.

[Reeve]

Absolutely, whether it's necessarily more effective is questionable. For some subjects it would be but for others (maths an excellent example) you just kinda need to keep smashing your head against it until something breaks. Having a different focus can be very beneficial. But this is still kinda what benefits are for, to help people who can't work for whatever reason or lives are changing. If you choose not to use it then great but that's what it's there for if needed.

Unemployment benefits are there for people whose lives are changing, perhaps, but disability benefits aren't there to help you go back to school. They're there for people who are unable to work.

Here in the UK there's a lot of stigma about people who are on benefits and just do nothing. Hearing that someone is actually doing something is quite the relief.

That's true.

[namelessone]

Unemployment benefits are there for people whose lives are changing, perhaps, but disability benefits aren't there to help you go back to school. They're there for people who are unable to work.

Very few people are COMPLETELY unable to work. Some people become unable to do the work that they trained for, but might still be capable to do something else. It's more beneficial to them and to society as a whole to retrain them rather than just to pay them off for the rest of their lives.

[AeneasBK]

Yeah, I did school 2 days a week, either Mon/Wed or Tue/Thur and worked the other 5 days, 8 hour shifts. It's important to make sure you take a shift off at least one day a month, though, so that you can take care of business with stuff that's only open during the daytime, like haircuts, car washes, etc.

Yeah I tried Open University when I first moved to Cardiff to finish off my A level maths + further maths but lots of other stuff happened (protip: do'nt live with junkies, ta least not the theiving kind) and I ended up falling too far behind.

[poser765]

I began looking again yesterday, but don't see anything coming out of it just like 3 years ago. At least you have an excuse that people are more willing to accept for your unemployment, OP. People hear my reason and they call me a lazy fuck mooching man-child, or just tell me to move. Impossible to move when you have no money. Really hate when people say "then just move". I would join the military, but at the moment I am 60 pounds too fat, and almost at the too old to join age as well.

Wait, you started looking for a job yesterday and you are already set to give up? Dude, it takes longer than that. If you are still unemployed six months from now, then I will feel for you. Right now, though? No.

[Tirivaria]

In which case it would be better for cost and the economy as a whole to retrain them rather than pay them off.

That's one answer (and my preferred solution). But then we have to put together the program to fund their training (and set up the department to figure out who could be retrained couldn't). I'm not optimistic about the chances of that sort of thing getting set up except maybe as an extremely small scale charity.

[Rukentuts]

Wait, you started looking for a job yesterday and you are already set to give up? Dude, it takes longer than that. If you are still unemployed six months from now, then I will feel for you. Right now, though? No.

Depends on how much he applies for a day. One? No.

That's one answer (and my preferred solution). But then we have to put together the program to fund their training (and set up the department to figure out who could be retrained couldn't). I'm not optimistic about the chances of that sort of thing getting set up except maybe as an extremely small scale charity.

It's Socialism™. Therefore its chances of occurring by the federal government are zero.

[poser765]

Depends on how much he applies for a day. One? No.
It's Socialism™.

Even if he busted his ass all day yesterday and today it just doesn't go that fast. Hell, it takes me a good couple of days just to make a resume from scratch and clean and press my "askin' for a job" clothes.

[Pachycrocuta]

Wait, you started looking for a job yesterday and you are already set to give up? Dude, it takes longer than that. If you are still unemployed six months from now, then I will feel for you. Right now, though? No.

Not giving up just yet, but experience in this town has made me not get my hopes up. Believe me, after 5 years of no work, I would take working at McDonalds if they would hire me. It's just the whole them hiring me part that can be tough to get to happen.

[Deleted]

Not giving up just yet, but experience in this town has made me not get my hopes up. Believe me, after 5 years of no work, I would take working at McDonalds if they would hire me. It's just the whole them hiring me part that can be tough to get to happen.

Have you tried volunteering?

The gap will still be present, but recent volunteering experience would be a bonus in offsetting it, of course this is assuming you have the means to volunteer and something is nearby.

[Rukentuts]

Even if he busted his ass all day yesterday and today it just doesn't go that fast. Hell, it takes me a good couple of days just to make a resume from scratch and clean and press my "askin' for a job" clothes.

Ya, but once you get into that mode you can pound out the apps for work on places like Indeed / etc. really quick, considering most just want an information form and your resume. Within a few days you could be caught up on the current postings and waiting for new ones to pounce on.

But this topic is really why I detest Obama's push for 99 week unemployment. Seems the mentality would be to wait until week 80+ to give a damn. Especially now. Have you seen all the hiring signs lately? Damn.

[Reeve]

So in other words, because the numbers don't line up with what your view on what they should be is, they can't be correct.

As a worker for Social Security, let me break that 14 million down a bit for you. When someone becomes entitled to Social Security disability, either SSI (needs based)or SSDI(payroll tax based), they must be either a patient who is experiencing End Stage Renal disease, or have a disability that prevents them from working for 1 year.

A lot of people will meet that 1 year requirement sometime in their lifetime. A lot. However, even after they are better, we don't just immediately cut benefits, we let them try to work, try to get back on their feet, all while continuing to do medical reviews (if they are 100% better, then yes, we cut them off benefits). This keeps people from having to reapply just because they THOUGHT they could go back to work.

Now, yes, there are people who are receiving benefits who aren't disabled, but most who receive are, according to the rules that we have set. Out of the 14 million, nearly half are back to work, and are either in suspense or receiving significantly reduced checks. That brings us to 7 million who aren't working, and are claiming disability.

Is that a more believable number for you? Because now we get into fraud. It's estimated there are roughly 2 million currently receiving who are fraudulent. So now we're at 5 million people who are disabled and aren't working.

Is that a more believeable number for you? 5 million are actually disabled, 7 million were disabled and are recovering (yet for counting, are still considered "disabled"), and 2 million are lying about it.

5 million disabled is a bit more realistic to me, yes.

Of course, if you read the article I linked, you'd also not that as welfare reform occurred and welfare recipients dropped a lot in the late 90s, SSI disability rose significantly. Many people who were previously claiming some form of welfare moved onto disability simply because it's easier to claim. There's a huge number of people who are on disability that claim back pain or mental illness, which are things that are hard to firmly diagnose.

I'm not saying SSI disability doesn't do good for lots of people who truly deserve it. I'm not trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. I am, however, saying that the reason people face stigma when claiming SSI disability for "social anxiety" or "foot pain" is because there are a LOT of people out there who either fake it, or who tell themselves the symptoms are worse than they are simply so that they don't have to go through the soul-crushing process of searching for and holding down a job.

[poser765]

Not giving up just yet, but experience in this town has made me not get my hopes up. Believe me, after 5 years of no work, I would take working at McDonalds if they would hire me. It's just the whole them hiring me part that can be tough to get to happen.

I know this is obvious advice, but your chances of getting hired go up 100% when you ask for a job. Get out and apply.

Also apply to anything and everything. Anything you are even remotely qualified for. It's like getting laid. Go up to 100 chicks and ask them if they want to have sex with you in your car. 99 will probably slap you and walk away...but 1 will say yes.

[Joathen]

That's one answer (and my preferred solution). But then we have to put together the program to fund their training (and set up the department to figure out who could be retrained couldn't). I'm not optimistic about the chances of that sort of thing getting set up except maybe as an extremely small scale charity.

America has become notoriously bad at educating and training our children for work, programs like Work-Core and OJT are disappearing; otherwise I'd have faith that a retraining program would work.

[AeneasBK]

Not giving up just yet, but experience in this town has made me not get my hopes up. Believe me, after 5 years of no work, I would take working at McDonalds if they would hire me. It's just the whole them hiring me part that can be tough to get to happen.

In my experience (and I'm not suggesting I've been through anything like what you have) the *easiest* way I found to get min wage work fast was to find somewhere you could see yourself working, asking to see the manager; and I had a routine along the lines of:

"Hi, this looks like a great place, I was wondering if you had any positions going at all?"
"Do you have any experience?"
"No, but I'll work a shift for you and if you don't feel I've got what you need by the end of it then I can be on my way"

3 times in my life where I had been unemployed for more than a month that was the way I got back into work, fuck sending out hundreds of CVs, they just don't grab attention. Yes it won't work everywhere. But when the alternative is "Giving out CV's and waiting to hear back" its MUCH less demoralising to not be left waiting. You get an immediate "No not interested" or you get a chance.

I only suggested it as you didn't seem like you were looking for work in a specific trade/field. I also have no idea how small your town is :S But yeah, worth a try if you've exhausted other options. Waiting for replies is pretty demoralising; there's only so many days you can spend 8 hours looking for work and not even getting a "sorry not this time" back from anyone before you think the whole thing is a waste of time

[slime]

Not counting disabilities, but maybe if they came up with a better idea than the employeed pay the unemployed's salaries there would be a little less hatred. Yes hatred.