Applying to grad school....

[calinass]

if any of you guys have a PhD, Masters.....in grad school, whatever, can you guys help me out?

I have absolutely no clue where to go for Grad School. I have an idea of a few schools, but I have NO idea which one is the best fit for me. My plans are these, in this order....
1) Look at possible grad schools in my field, narrow down to like 7-10 schools
2) take the GRE and relevant subject test
3) Get letters of rec, once thats done apply to grad schools
4) get accepted/denied to schools, visit/research the ones I got into
5) research the professors research and what they do, what they are like....
6) email said professors that I found interesting, or email them to schedule a meeting when I........
7) visit accepted schools.

Thats basically my plan. I dont know if its good, what you would change, etc. Can you give me ANY insight?

[Spectral]

I have a Ph.D. in Microbiology/Immunology and my first bit of advice is to not get one. It just doesn't make good career sense unless you're quite sure you want to be a professor or other lead researcher.

[Blueobelisk]

Are you going for PHD or Master's? Thesis or non-thesis? Research or...? Are you getting a job in industry or academia?

[klaps_05]

providing a location and interested subjects can be useful. ultimately, I know the FT ranking for grad schools are updated annually so you can always check that. i am assuming you will be applying for 2015-2016? since its halfway through august and most dont even accept apps anymore.

usually 2 academic and 2 professional references/recommendation letters are more than enough. before applying I would suggest taking some classes on application prep - how to write motivational letters, etc., update your CV/linkedin, as if you are applying to a top ranked place they will look at them.

a lot of tests such as the GMAT can also be taken like once every couple months in certain countries and require a lot of prep(i spent about 1 month on my GMAT prep, but usually it can take up to 3 months).

also, depending on how well you have done so far, i would suggest to apply to a lot of places - its always good to have a choice. a lot of universities also run social media websites and have course reps so you can contact those(they should be listed on their respective websites or u can get their contacts through official channels).

i remember when i was considering MSc i bought a huge book that had about 500-600 universities globally with all their profiles, courses, etc. i am sure you can find something similar, even if it covers only your country.

[Eurydemus]

Ask yourself why you want to go to grad school and be absolutely honest. Don't shell out more money for a degree that's not going to further your career goals because, depending on where you want to go, it might be more student loan debt you can't afford to be saddled with.

Also, if you're willing and able to pay for it, shoot for the best. If you're going to get a post-grad degree from some middle or bottom-tier school, you may as well save your money.

[calinass]

US, Chemistry. Dont want to offer too much info about myself if I can.

For my PhD, Im not sure what I want, so I figured staying in school for a few years would help me figure it out. I KNOW that it will be hard work, and it wont be a breeze, but I also know I have two options - academia or industry. Im not sure what I lean too, to be perfectly honest. I just dont know. I do know that I like researching from what I have experienced as an undergrad, which is: not much. but I like working in a lab. I like being flexible with my schedule as an undergrad. Im sure that changes.

[Blueobelisk]

I can't really advise you with that amount of information. All you need to do is fill out an application, take/send GREs, send transcripts, and pay $application fee. And you'll get in. Not much more to say.

[Eurydemus]

US, Chemistry. Dont want to offer too much info about myself if I can.

For my PhD, Im not sure what I want, so I figured staying in school for a few years would help me figure it out. I KNOW that it will be hard work, and it wont be a breeze, but I also know I have two options - academia or industry. Im not sure what I lean too, to be perfectly honest. I just dont know. I do know that I like researching from what I have experienced as an undergrad, which is: not much. but I like working in a lab. I like being flexible with my schedule as an undergrad. Im sure that changes.

Don't remain in school to "figure things out" because you're spending a fair bit of cash to do that. Even if you can afford it, you shouldn't because it's a waste of money. Do your thinking outside of school, while working whatever job you can find and quit to go back to school if that's what you end up thinking is best.

[Endus]

if any of you guys have a PhD, Masters.....in grad school, whatever, can you guys help me out?

I just applied for (and was accepted) to start my Masters next year, so this is fresh in my mind.

I have absolutely no clue where to go for Grad School. I have an idea of a few schools, but I have NO idea which one is the best fit for me. My plans are these, in this order....
1) Look at possible grad schools in my field, narrow down to like 7-10 schools
2) take the GRE and relevant subject test
3) Get letters of rec, once thats done apply to grad schools
4) get accepted/denied to schools, visit/research the ones I got into
5) research the professors research and what they do, what they are like....
6) email said professors that I found interesting, or email them to schedule a meeting when I........
7) visit accepted schools.

Thats basically my plan. I dont know if its good, what you would change, etc. Can you give me ANY insight?

The order's a bit screwed up. We don't have anything like the GRE here in Canada, but it doesn't look like you need to take it at your chosen school, so that should be the top of your list. If your GRE scores aren't going to be good enough, the rest is a waste of time, and if they aren't, how you score's gonna change what schools you target, somewhat.

Then, look at grad schools, given the above. Also, you should be figuring out (combined with the next) what you want to be doing for your program, particularly if it's a thesis program. Don't just go in saying "whaddaya got?" Don't get too specific, either; a little wiggle room to adjust to the school's/professor's needs is good.

THEN research the professors and what their fields of interest/research are.

E-mail said professors, and ask them about the program, if they're taking on new students, suchlike. If they're a day trip away, try and get in to see them personally. This will help you stand out from your peers. Also consider doing the same with the Dean of Grad Studies for the department, same reasoning. A little goes surprisingly far. These aren't like job interviews, either; these are for you to ask questions and find out if the school/professor is a good fit for you, so go in with that mindset.

THEN apply. Get your letters of recommendation in order as you do (ideally, you've poked people about them before this point, and may have received them already).

Get accepted. Get ready. Start communicating with your profs on acceptance, if you can, even if by e-mail.

US, Chemistry. Dont want to offer too much info about myself if I can.

For my PhD, Im not sure what I want, so I figured staying in school for a few years would help me figure it out.

It might, but you'll get 2-3 years into your PhD and then you'll basically start your actual work, meaning you're trying to cram the whole PhD into the last few years. This isn't really a good way to go. It costs you money, and you're not gaining a whole lot. You'd honestly probably be better working a stupid-ass job, paying down your debt (if any, pack savings away if not), and figuring it out while you're improving your financial situation. Then go for grad school. If you can do better than Starbucks or something, by all means; shoot for the moon. The point is; you can either be spending money, or making money, while you're figuring out your grad school goals. Which would you prefer?

Paying tuition for the privilege of "figuring it out" really doesn't make much sense. And it really doesn't matter how old you are or that you've been out of school for a couple years. If you can get a job in some related field, it'll give you a lot to think on, and may even turn into your thesis. That's basically how it's worked out for me (not in the sciences, but still).

I like being flexible with my schedule as an undergrad. Im sure that changes.

Yes and no. There's a lot that's required, like TA times (if applicable), or courses, but the workload's going to be high enough that you'll be busy. So it's not like "I have two classes Thursday morning and then I'm done", unless you're spending your Saturday working in the lab or something. If you love mornings, you can probably schedule yourself to come in early and get out early, and conversely if you hate mornings, but it's still going to amount to a full-time investment, if not more.

[calinass]

Im not sure what to do....I agree with you guys. I shouldnt be going to grad school if Im not like damn near certain that I want to go. Its a big investment, I THINK my parents can pay for it (they dont involve me in finances at all...so I might have loans I might not).

I went to a university before, I wasnt in the right mindset (as in, I just dont think I was ready to leave for a few reasons), wnet to community college, now Im back and doing great. I have a drive to right my fuckup at the previous uni. And that is, to get a bachelors. I just dont have that same drive to get a masters/PhD, but I KNOW its in my best interest to do so. Hopefully that gives a clearer picture as to where Im coming from?


I have a few friends who are highly dedicated to going to Grad school, like they have a list of schools, signed up for tests, researched professors, and I have a half-assed list of schools that I havent really even looked into....its better than nothing, but I apply in the fall/winter so I need to get my shit together..

[Blueobelisk]

PHD pays you.

[calinass]

Endus, it would be a PITA to quote you so Im just referencing you here.
How Ive seen is it that GRE means less than your GPA/research/internship/letters of rec. Its important just nowhere near as important, from what Ive been told by other grad students. They mention it cant really hurt you unless you fuck up. Do mediocre. Haha.

I figure most research schools do thesis programs, is that not right? I always imagined PhD's having to write a paper on their own or something. Or rather, develop something completely new, which comes along with a paper. Meet with the Dean of Grad Studies/Students in the department?! Jeez. I havent even met with the dean of my department. Maybe once. Never formally introduced myself, but I had a beer with him and a few undergrads once.

Is that typical for most graduate students? Because I know the first year or two you take classes, TA, and research on the side. Sounds like very little downtime.

See my post above for my situation, if that changes anything about tuition and whatnot.

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Oh yea. I completely forgot to use my brain. If I TA as a science major, I'll be making around 27k apparently.

[Endus]

I just dont have that same drive to get a masters/PhD, but I KNOW its in my best interest to do so. Hopefully that gives a clearer picture as to where Im coming from?

Then, to be honest, don't go to grad school. You need one of two things laid out before you should apply;

1> A significant personal interest in an area where you think you can do productive research that will contribute to the body of knowledge
2> A direct plan on how that degree will get you a job. Not a theory or guess, an "I need X as a qualification to become Y" kind of thing. Part of the process is making connections and establishing contacts to help you land a job, but if you're in the wrong program for what you end up wanting to do, those contacts often won't be of any use.

Getting your baccalaureate gives you some marketable skills, and is worth doing for most people. Don't go to grad school because you don't know what to do with your life, though. Go work a shitty job you hate. You'll hate it. And you'll either find something you enjoy, or you'll quickly find one of the above good reasons to go back to grad school.

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Endus, it would be a PITA to quote you so Im just referencing you here.
How Ive seen is it that GRE means less than your GPA/research/internship/letters of rec. Its important just nowhere near as important, from what Ive been told by other grad students. They mention it cant really hurt you unless you fuck up. Do mediocre. Haha.

Even grades aren't that important, TBH. My program's the top-shelf one in the country, and my grades from my last degree were a solid B+. You need to meet the minimums, but then you'll be judged mostly on your research proposal and such, IME. That's also why I recommended contacting the professors early; they're the ones helping pick which grad students get selected. If you can get your proposed thesis supervisor on your side before application, that's gold (worked for me).

I figure most research schools do thesis programs, is that not right? I always imagined PhD's having to write a paper on their own or something. Or rather, develop something completely new, which comes along with a paper.

Most are thesis, yes. Some Masters programs are coursework-based, but it's really dependent on the field and program.

And yeah; it's best to not think of a thesis as a "paper". It's original work you're going to publish. It's not just a longer term paper, or something.

Meet with the Dean of Grad Studies/Students in the department?! Jeez. I havent even met with the dean of my department. Maybe once. Never formally introduced myself, but I had a beer with him and a few undergrads once.

They're just people. And at the end of a PhD, they'll be your professional peers. You're no longer just a "student", you're "potential future faculty in training".

Is that typical for most graduate students? Because I know the first year or two you take classes, TA, and research on the side. Sounds like very little downtime.

I don't know how typical my program is, but I've basically got a full year of coursework plus a TA position in my first year. The second is mostly thesis, but I've got a few electives and a couple courses I need to fit around that, plus, hopefully, more TA work.

Depends what you mean by "downtime". I'm expecting to be "working" 40-50 hour weeks, for the most part. It's a lot less downtime than an undergrad, but you can manage it like a full-time job, pretty much. Most of the stories you hear about people having no lives and working 80-90 hours a week are 1> people who left shit way too late and are playing catchup or 2> people in MD or Law, which just have an atrocious amount of information you need to shoehorn inside your braincase.

[Daez]

2) take the GRE and relevant subject test

What is your field? A great deal of fields have stopped requiring the GRE for the master's level. Most like to see it for the doctorate level.

3) Get letters of rec, once thats done apply to grad schools

Make sure these come from professors that really liked you or from community leaders or both. It also helps if that professor that really liked you has a good reputation in their field and if possible your potential field.

4) get accepted/denied to schools, visit/research the ones I got into

For the actual master's level its not a bad thing to continue on with the school you got your bachelor's at if they have a good reputation. If you want to go after the doctorate degree as well you might want to mix it up a little.

[calinass]

Endus, how can I even begin to know what I want to do? I mean by this time in my studies, should I be like, oh yeah, this thing in chemistry looks pretty damn cool. I bet if I spend more time learning about it, I can make an impact? ehhhhh.......Right now with my research, I am not actually researching. I feel like I am learning lab skills above all else. Is that wrong?

What I know about PhD's is that they are required for academia, basically, and that it helps with Industry. Not many other options as far as I see it. Now, I dont think I know what exactly my options would be until like my 4th year or 5th year of grad school, when Im wrapping up my PhD. Is that wrong?

YOu can say they are just people to just about anybody, it still doesnt count for the fact that talking to superiors, or those a few ranks ahead of you is scary. Imagine a kid in first grade talking to a kid in 8th. And 8th talking to a cool kid in 12th. A senior talking to a grad student, a undergrad talking to a professor...so on and so on. those social situations are intimidating. Thats how I see it.

The bottom line is that I know its a lot of work, no I do not know how much work besides people saying they put 40-70 hours depending on the lab, nor do I know if I can manage my time well. Nor do I know what its like to put in 40 hours a week, because during the school year I feel like I barely put in 40 a week (including classes) and my grades are good.

I know you guys are telling me no, and am I being hard-headed if I keep saying to myself "yeah......but......."? Do you think if I go, the same thing could happen at the other uni I went to, where I just wasnt ready/didnt have the drive? I didnt know if I was ready to come back to uni now, but I took a chance and Im doing better than expected.

[Crissi]

I just started grad school myself. If you dont know what you want to do, or even have a vague idea, you shouldnt start. Its just a waste of money. That was the biggest piece of advice I got from ym grad school professors.

Secondly, after having anxiety issues with professors myself, after this first semester I can say that for the most part, professors are incredibly friendly / funny. On Catalina Island, the professor of the course bought the entire class a round of alcohol, was open for help, extremely supportive, drove me to my hotel after we got back from the island, and even helped vouch for me when I lost my ID. Its always a good idea to know people ahead of time. One of the big reasons I got accepted, even with my gpa below their requirements, was that the recruiter and I got along FABULOUSLY.

But do NOT go if you still feel lost. Professors dont really have time for that kind of shit at this level from what I was told.

[Endus]

Endus, how can I even begin to know what I want to do? I mean by this time in my studies, should I be like, oh yeah, this thing in chemistry looks pretty damn cool. I bet if I spend more time learning about it, I can make an impact? ehhhhh.......Right now with my research, I am not actually researching. I feel like I am learning lab skills above all else. Is that wrong?

Not really. A BSc in Chem basically qualifies you to be a lab assistant. Baccalaureates are about "basic training", getting the basics of the fields down. You need those lab skills down to be able to do anything more.

There's no "should" about this, though. I'm not saying you should have everything figured out. Hell, I'm 37, and starting a Master's. In a field that's completely unrelated to my two other degrees, I might add. I'm just figuring things out now. There's nothing that says you should go to grad school right after your baccalaureate. Some fields require that you don't; my second degree was a Bachelor's of Education, and they don't let you do an M.Ed. until you've got at least two years of teaching experience under your belt (or comparable experience in a related field).

Grad school, fundamentally, is about contributing to the body of knowledge in your field. If you have no idea how you want to do that, you should take some time to figure it out, first. That's all. You should either have a specific area you want to contribute in, or a specific career path that requires a graduate degree. Either's fine. I'm aiming at a professional career path, myself, though my research proposal is interesting (to me) and potentially broad enough for a PhD, and I'm flexible about it.

I'm not trying to push you in a certain direction. Just saying that you should know where you're going before you pick a direction.

What I know about PhD's is that they are required for academia, basically, and that it helps with Industry. Not many other options as far as I see it. Now, I dont think I know what exactly my options would be until like my 4th year or 5th year of grad school, when Im wrapping up my PhD. Is that wrong?

Not "wrong", but you don't have a clear plan in your head.

Here's the root question; what do you want to be doing in 20 years? Figure that out. If you need a graduate degree, get one, and keep pushing towards your goal. If you have no idea, figure that out first.

Which doesn't mean you're locked in to anything, once you do, either. Sometimes, stuff comes up, and takes you down a path you didn't see. And that's fine. If you'd asked me 10 years ago where I'd be in 20, it wouldn't be anywhere close to where I'm planning on being now.

[Kuntantee]

If you decide to enroll, be sure that

1) You work on an active research topic
2) You work with a professor who's passionate to research.

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I have a Ph.D. in Microbiology/Immunology and my first bit of advice is to not get one. It just doesn't make good career sense unless you're quite sure you want to be a professor or other lead researcher.

A bit edgy advise, there are many research scientist positions for PhDs. Not just professor or lead researcher.

[Spectral]

A bit edgy advise, there are many research scientist positions for PhDs. Not just professor or lead researcher.

Sure, it's definitely an option to just keep doing research, but I don't know very many people that go into Ph.D. programs thinking they're going to have to do benchwork for a couple decades. If that's the plan, one might as well just get a jump start as a lab tech instead. You're right though - if someone's satisfied with doing benchwork for a living, they can do that with a Ph.D.

On a less negative note - OP, have you considered a post-bac program? I wasn't particularly familiar with these until my last research stop, where we had a number of people that were in between undergrad and starting a career that weren't sure what they wanted to do. They got to do some solid research, learn what working full time in a lab feels like, and got paid ~$32K/year. A lot of them went on to med school, some (like my girlfriend) went on to graduate school, others decided research wasn't their thing at all. It gives you a way to not make a committed decision without losing as much.

[Deleted]

There is a huge difference between a master's and a PhD, so you shouldn't let yourself be intimidated by people who apply PhD standards to any graduate degree. A master's doesn't need to include a heavy research component and there are a lot of more practical programs nowadays which consist of coursework and a work placement or university practicum. They are a good introduction to research methods and advanced material in your field and they can help you figure out where you'd like to work. The work placement part can be invaluable in terms of experience and networking. Plus, a master's should take no longer than 2 years. If you become unhappy with it, it's a lot easier to just finish it and move on.

Basically, what you want to do for now is painstakingly go through all the MS programs offered for your field and bookmark all those you find interesting. If funding is a serious issue for you (i.e. you absolutely need a full MS scholarship and guaranteed TA work), then weed out any program which doesn't offer either a default postgraduate scholarship or a competitive scholarship scheme. Apply any other criteria which are relevant to you, such as location, climate, etc. Then choose the ones which are the most interesting to you, ensuring that you have a good mix of schools in terms of competitiveness. You want to apply to at least a couple where you think you're very likely to be admitted.

Once you have your short list, you should start contacting professors and discussing your interests with them. It's good to have a fair idea of what you want to do, but professors do remember how it was at the beginning and how courses you take and experiences you have can substantially alter your intended track and take you in new directions.

Bottom-line, an MS is not a huge, intimidating undertaking and it can open a lot of new prospects for you. Afterwards, you can consider doing another MS or an MBA and working for a few years. You'll have a much better idea of how you operate, what kind of work you prefer, and whether a PhD can help you reach your goals. You shouldn't let anyone pressure you into immediately entering a PhD program if you don't feel passionate about a certain subject. Also, you shouldn't buy into the hype that you absolutely need to have a PhD by 30. There are plenty of people who do it in their 30s, when they have had more exposure to various sub-fields in their discipline, as well as some work experience which highlighted some of the practical needs and concerns in their respective fields. This way, you can tailor your PhD to serve your concrete goals.

PS: you shouldn't be paying for grad school. If you can't get a full scholarship right off the bat, it's better to just work for a few years and sharpen your goals before re-applying. But, generally, if you get in, you usually get a free ride (Law School and MBAs are exceptions, but those are expected to make a lot of money afterwards, so it's not as much of an issue).