Mage in WoD

[Ralikon]

Just sat down and played a good 20-25 minutes of the Frostfire Ridge questing, which was pretty awesome scenery.

Anyway, am I the only one who feels that Frost mage feels really boring and slow? IMO, I think all it really comes down to is the removal of fire blast, was it truly that GOOD that they felt they needed to remove it?

There was another thread asking if Mage feels like a Master of Magic, but I'd say not with these certain removal of element skills from the specific spec, it really just feels like were only a master of frost.

[Deleted]

Just sat down and played a good 20-25 minutes of the Frostfire Ridge questing, which was pretty awesome scenery.

Anyway, am I the only one who feels that Frost mage feels really boring and slow? IMO, I think all it really comes down to is the removal of fire blast, was it truly that GOOD that they felt they needed to remove it?

There was another thread asking if Mage feels like a Master of Magic, but I'd say not with these certain removal of element skills from the specific spec, it really just feels like were only a master of frost.

Mage looks pretty decent PvE wise for WoD, atleast in comparison to most other classes. Everyone have concerns. In fact most classes are quite unhappy with changes.

That said, Mages have to be the most nerfed class PvP wise. They're one of the best in MoP so I'm not sure if the nerfs will go as far as making Mages the worst PvP class in the game in WoD, but it'll be pretty damn close. Reduced CC, reduced burst, reduced survivability, reduced kiting ability, all the while everyone else's self-heals went through the roof.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

What does Fire Blast have to do with Frost gameplay in any fashion?

[Ralikon]

What does Fire Blast have to do with Frost gameplay in any fashion?

Its an instant spell that does damage? Lol what

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Mage looks pretty decent PvE wise for WoD, atleast in comparison to most other classes. Everyone have concerns. In fact most classes are quite unhappy with changes.

That said, Mages have to be the most nerfed class PvP wise. They're one of the best in MoP so I'm not sure if the nerfs will go as far as making Mages the worst PvP class in the game in WoD, but it'll be pretty damn close. Reduced CC, reduced burst, reduced survivability, reduced kiting ability, all the while everyone else's self-heals went through the roof.

With Mind Freeze procs coming off Frostbolts, Frost is going to be pretty tough/really fucking slow to play


edit: after playing other classes, I really just think it comes down to the dumbing-down of class abilities. Mage (frost in particular) is a god damn blast to play in MoP, everything just flows really well to me. In WoD, it's a very different matter

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Its an instant spell that does damage? Lol what

You never use it in PVE. Or SHOULDN'T, at any rate.

[Polarthief]

IMO, I think all it really comes down to is the removal of fire blast, was it truly that GOOD that they felt they needed to remove it?

Its an instant spell that does damage? Lol what

I don't even. How do you comment on this? I can't tell if you're trolling or serious. The reason Fire Blast was scrapped from Frost and Arcane was because of how pointless it was to have. A moderately-low damage ability on a cooldown that has literally no influence on your spec and is overall a DPS loss for a global. You have IF, proccs, can use Pet Freeze + Ice Lance, Ice Nova, Comet Storm, so many instant choices for leveling.

You never use it in PVE. Or SHOULDN'T, at any rate.

The only time I use it is if I know the boss is going to die, we're okay on enrage time, and he's at like 0.5% HP, because I doubt my Frostbolt cast would go off, and I have no procs up, so I'd use Fire Blast, but I never use it in a serious fashion.

[Ralikon]

You never use it in PVE. Or SHOULDN'T, at any rate.

Of course not. But in the sake of a PvE argument, you can actually use it. Say you're doing dailies and have a mob at low HP and want to get on with your life and finish him off quickly, Fire Blast fits that role.

Mages are supposed to be magicians of all magic, not just a specific element, without the others, we're really just Shamans are we not?

The only time I use it is if I know the boss is going to die, we're okay on enrage time, and he's at like 0.5% HP, because I doubt my Frostbolt cast would go off, and I have no procs up, so I'd use Fire Blast, but I never use it in a serious fashion.[/FONT]

this is what i just said

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I don't even. How do you comment on this? I can't tell if you're trolling or serious. The reason Fire Blast was scrapped from Frost and Arcane was because of how pointless it was to have. A moderately-low damage ability on a cooldown that has literally no influence on your spec and is overall a DPS loss for a global. You have IF, proccs, can use Pet Freeze + Ice Lance, Ice Nova, Comet Storm, so many instant choices for leveling.

Thought it was implied I was referring to PvP, but for those who didn't pick that up, yes you do use FB in PvP.

[Polarthief]

Thought it was implied I was referring to PvP, but for those who didn't pick that up, yes you do use FB in PvP.

Seeing as how you were talking about Frostfire Ridge, no, no one knew you were referring to PvP.

I don't do PvP all that much personally, so when exactly is Fire Blast optimally used in PvP anyways? It does so little damage that I can't find a use for it that Ice Lance can't replace, even if it's unfrozen.

[Deleted]

have you tried pleaying fire yet? now thats abit of a joke

[Ralikon]

Seeing as how you were talking about Frostfire Ridge, no, no one knew you were referring to PvP.

I don't do PvP all that much personally, so when exactly is Fire Blast optimally used in PvP anyways? It does so little damage that I can't find a use for it that Ice Lance can't replace, even if it's unfrozen.

It was implied because it's only ever used in PvE for exclusive purposes that were already mentioned, and for those that understand that should already be on the same page with the discussion of such. But you already knew that didnt you

It's optimal when kiting and don't have a Ice Lance proc, the fact you need to ask that question pretty much tells me the tier level play you engage in

In any case, how about give your input on the other half of the question in regards to being a Master of Magic, since you pretty much disregarded my whole OP

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have you tried pleaying fire yet? now thats abit of a joke

Thought it played pretty decent, much like how it is on live. No deep freeze blows, the Combustion change sucks and I think they also got rid of CoC?

Overall I didn't think it was as dull as frost

[Polarthief]

It optimal when kiting and don't have a Ice Lance proc, the fact you need to ask that question pretty much tells me the tier level play you engage in

No need to be rude about it; I already said that I barely do PvP, and was just questioning its purpose. Does it really do that much damage that this will be a significant difference?

In any case, how about give your input on the other half of the question in regards to being a Master of Magic, since you pretty much disregarded my whole OP

Anyway, am I the only one who feels that Frost mage feels really boring and slow? IMO, I think all it really comes down to is the removal of fire blast, was it truly that GOOD that they felt they needed to remove it?

So I "disregarded the entire OP" when I was replying directly to the OP? I don't see how I disregarded it in any case. While I can't test it without a beta invite, Frost doesn't seem slow unless you run out of procs and are getting them very slowly from Frostbolt spamming.

There was another thread asking if Mage feels like a Master of Magic, but I'd say not with these certain removal of element skills from the specific spec, it really just feels like were only a master of frost.

Outside of Fire Blast (because I still don't see it as a useful spell), I will definitely agree that Mages don't feel like Masters of Magic, but now we're straying off from the original topic (not to mention there's already a thread for that).

[Deleted]

It was implied because it's only ever used in PvE for exclusive purposes that were already mentioned, and for those that understand that should already be on the same page with the discussion of such. But you already knew that didnt you

It's optimal when kiting and don't have a Ice Lance proc, the fact you need to ask that question pretty much tells me the tier level play you engage in

In any case, how about give your input on the other half of the question in regards to being a Master of Magic, since you pretty much disregarded my whole OP

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Thought it played pretty decent, much like how it is on live. No deep freeze blows, the Combustion change sucks and I think they also got rid of CoC?

Overall I didn't think it was as dull as frost

im fire/frost atm on the beta, fire has lost alot, including ice block as well now. fire seems pretty squishy and aoe isnt the best either,i think blizz need to have blast wave as a skill and redo that talent,
but i also disagree with the mirror image and alter time talent decison,they shouldve remained as skills

[Ralikon]

No need to be rude about it; I already said that I barely do PvP, and was just questioning its purpose. Does it really do that much damage that this will be a significant difference?





So I "disregarded the entire OP" when I was replying directly to the OP? I don't see how I disregarded it in any case. While I can't test it without a beta invite, Frost doesn't seem slow unless you run out of procs and are getting them very slowly from Frostbolt spamming.



Outside of Fire Blast (because I still don't see it as a useful spell), I will definitely agree that Mages don't feel like Masters of Magic, but now we're straying off from the original topic (not to mention there's already a thread for that).

Alright man lol. It was actually said in the final paragraph of the OP.

Anyway, yeah it's pretty significant, I think it hits for maybe 40-70k? Not sure though, it's still better than Ice Lance is without a proc or frozen target. But even still, it just makes Frost, imo, so slow dude. Of course Fire Blast isn't the only thing making the class lag, with Frostfire bolt procs coming in a lot less.

I suppose MoP spoiled some of us though, with the tremendous flow of spells it just always feels like there is a shiny instant cast spell to use at any given time.

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im fire/frost atm on the beta, fire has lost alot, including ice block as well now. fire seems pretty squishy and aoe isnt the best either,i think blizz need to have blast wave as a skill and redo that talent,
but i also disagree with the mirror image and alter time talent decison,they shouldve remained as skills

Agree with that, dude it feels like there's no spells to use! Ice block is gone from fire too? That's fuckin janky.. And also adds to the point of being more of a elemental caster rather than an actual Wizard.

[Frost1129]

Ice block is not gone from Fire.

[Polarthief]

Ice block is not gone from Fire.

^

It is for any spec if you pick Evanesce, but yeah, it's definitely not spec-locked.

[nickseng]

FWIW, base IL damage has been doubled to make up for the loss of Fire Blast.

[Hasted]

Fire Blast was cool for kiting I guess. Realistically though its a spell you should never really be casting unless you're on the move. If you have to choose between Fire Blast on a 1 second GCD and Frostbolt, which nearly has a 1 second cast time with that amount of haste, and your choice wasn't Frostbolt than your choice was likely wrong.

The only issue I have with Frost no the beta at the moment is how clunky Frost Bomb feels. The damage is respectable but the ~1.4s cast time for a spell that doesn't pay for itself until you IL feels really bad. When you pair it with the crystal it feels like you're burning up a good portion of the duration casting that.

[Deleted]

Everyone is so used to end of expansion inflated item levels that everything feels slow on the beta. That's change with gear levels, as it always does every expansion - and if it didn't, what would be the point of gear?

The bigger problem is that frost is the only spec that's fully fleshed out and is actually a "real" spec. Arcane and Fire are just shells of themselves, and I can't see being played by many players. Right now they are looking like they will be the "Marksmanship Hunter" of WoD, unless things dramatically change.

[fearist]

Everyone is so used to end of expansion inflated item levels that everything feels slow on the beta. That's change with gear levels, as it always does every expansion - and if it didn't, what would be the point of gear?

The bigger problem is that frost is the only spec that's fully fleshed out and is actually a "real" spec. Arcane and Fire are just shells of themselves, and I can't see being played by many players. Right now they are looking like they will be the "Marksmanship Hunter" of WoD, unless things dramatically change.

lol what, fire is going to take more skill than ever, IF is more engaging than invocation ever was. Along with the synergy between PC + LB combos, and soon meteor is adding to ignite damage, all of these things will probably ensure that fire has a higher skill cap than live.

[Polarthief]

lol what, fire is going to take more skill than ever, IF is more engaging than invocation ever was. Along with the synergy between PC + LB combos, and soon meteor is adding to ignite damage, all of these things will probably ensure that fire has a higher skill cap than live.

Outside of PC/LB, Fire has almost nothing to it. Spam Fireball, use IB like usual, use Pyros. Combustion on Meteor ==> Pyro ==> Meteor lands. Keep up LB or use BW every so often. It's way too simple and bleh.

However, I can't wait to try PC/LB. Y'know, in a closed, non-raid, environment, unless I get an awesome RL to let me do PC/LB lol