LFR Being Phased Out...is this Possible?

[DeadmanWalking]

the difference is LFR is guarenteed success, what with the ramping determination buff.

False, get a group of 20 friends around, queue up for lfr and then go afk. You control the booting so you wont get booted. See how long it takes you to down the bosses. There is no gauranteed success. The determination buff had to be incorporated to give people a reason to stick with a group that wasn't going to one shot everything, that there was a chance to succeed. If you have the patience to stick around for 7 -20 wipes then they should just give you the gear as far as I am concerned because you certainly are stubborn.

Also the rewards are not gauranteed, you could far the same boss for months and never get the item you are looking for. There are no gaurantees. To call it a gaurantee is something you made up because it sounds good as a sound byte.

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False. Grind has the added requirement of a large amount of time spent, or an expectation of a large amount of time spent. (See: Burden Grinding on TI)

Effort can, and usually does, get easier the more you put into the activity. (See: LFR in a group that puts in effort vs. LFR in a bad group) No matter how hard you grind burdens, you're not going to do it any better than you were before because it's all luck. But the more effort your group puts into LFR, the easier the encounter becomes.

Fasle, Effort is also investing time doing something even if that something is waiting for someone. If you don't want to wait for someone then you don't want to put up with the effort of waiting for them.

You can of course redefine the words all you want but ultimately you don't like doing grind because of what you have to do to complete it including the effort of investing the time into them.

And LFR rewards are all luck as well, in fact you will have better luck at burdens than LFR bosses because anything on the island can drop burdens and Bosses only have a random chance to drop a few random pieces once a week + coin. You could get 15 of the same ring in a row and never get the tier chest you are looking for. Every frog has a chance of dropping burdens, every 'rare' and you can kill them 24/7.

[Deleted]

What is the solution, though, to engage players for more than one patch if LFR doesn't drop gear?

I'm pretty sure Blizzard has never said "WE SHOULDN'T OF PUT GEAR IN IT!", rather than "We made the gear too good for our precious sacred raiders!"

You are correct, they never said that.

What they have said is they wish theyd done it differently, they admit they implemented it badly, the LFR they implemented was done wrong.

It wasnt meant to be part of the raiding curve, but thats exactly whats happened. And that can only be because the gear that drops from LFR is both too high and the same appearance as the top gear available at that time.

Now, i can defend Blizzard with the appearance issue because that was probably done to save time, with hindsight im sure they wouldve given LFR gear a totally different look. But the fact its epic gear which is rated higher than dungeons and almost everything else available at the time was stupid. They admit they shouldve thought things through more and it can only be on this point.

[Radish Spirit]

It is entirely different. In TBC you had to make friends just to be able to run heroics effectively. Otherwise you'd be spamming trade like an idiot getting nothing done. Guilds were the way to do progress content, so people tended to be much more loyal and friendly (of course there were guild hoppers, but that's life). Today majority just get grouped with random people (LFG/LFR) that they don't know and will likely never see again, zerg through the place in silence (if you're lucky) or while hurling abuse (if you're unlucky).

...what does LFR have to do with guild recruitment? Nobody uses LFR as a recruitment tool or to meet people. Guilds work the same as they ever have. You find one on your server and use it to progress through raiding content. It works exactly the same as it did in every expansion.

[zorkuus]

And LFR rewards are all luck as well, in fact you will have better luck at burdens than LFR bosses because anything on the island can drop burdens and Bosses only have a random chance to drop a few random pieces once a week + coin. You could get 15 of the same ring in a row and never get the tier chest you are looking for. Every frog has a chance of dropping burdens, every 'rare' and you can kill them 24/7.

Indeed, you are almost quaranteed to get lots of burdens if you can just bare the grind.

[DeadmanWalking]

...what does LFR have to do with guild recruitment? Nobody uses LFR as a recruitment tool or to meet people. Guilds work the same as they ever have. You find one on your server and use it to progress through raiding content. It works exactly the same as it did in every expansion.

I was in a galakras fight and the entire group died except for the bear tank who was all in timeless tokens and he took the boss from 25% life down to 0 and won. I recruited his ass. We became such good friends that when he came down with cancer I bought him a years supply of wow time because I know that he would get depressed without wow and half the battle with cancer is with yourself.

[Kahmal]

Just an update 15 days later, as many people here pointed out you technically do not have to do LFR. I did LFR ToT once and a full SoO once. I nabbed 3 Burdens of Eternity to get some 535 gear, and did a whole lot of PvP to inflate my ilvl to 550, despite being a tank. I bought the 553 belt and leggings from the AH also. As someone pointed out to me here "if your good you should be able to do Flex in 495 gear" and I did just that.

I'm loving Flex gives me content that requires some basic brain functions while not having to commit to a time schedule. I'm now 541 in tank gear (a couple PvP pieces) people still allow me to tank SoO normal.

Would rather see Mythic Dungeons though instead of grabbing PvP gear, I personally enjoy PvP others don't, or feel like paying a PvPer to carry them.

....I still find LFR an abomination though, Flex alone would have worked just fine imo. Very interesting video I found recently not really targeting LFR but the state of the game in general that almost made me cry. Just wanted to share it.

[Deleted]

In case people haven't been made aware yet, Blizzard wants the entirety of their playerbase happy. 1% stops doing LFR and the other 49% who do LFR no longer have to deal with the 1% who complain about how bad LFR is.

Everyone wins. So he still doesn't have a point.

So what was everyone doing at max level in the days before LFR?

U guys make it sound like they were standing around doing fukk all cos there was fukk all to do... that 99% of players ur describing, were they really so fukked off before LFR was created?

I think u will find that Wrath had the most successful model which kept the largest amount of players happy... and yes that was a time before LFR.

[zorkuus]

Every frog also has an abysmally low chance of dropping burdens, every 'rare' is only up every now and again (And is killed on sight if you're on a good server), and if I had to farm TI for another 24 hours, I would literally rather quit the game.

If you're farming frogs for burdens then you're doing it wrong. Get an addon for the rares if you can't get to them on time. The big rares do not have a random spawn timer, so you cannot miss the kill if you know to wait them.

[Vargas]

the difference is LFR is guarenteed success, what with the ramping determination buff.

Doesn't mean you will actually get anything. RNG loot is RNG.

[zorkuus]

Did. Only killed rares for two weeks straight.

Got zero burdens. Still.

RNG is still RNG. On my latest 2 alts I was swimming in burden gear in no time.

[DeadmanWalking]

Go listen to the convert to raid podcast around 30 minutes in, these guys are raiders, hardcore and normal. These guys have lots of raid cred, they know what they are talking about and they explain why LFR has to be easy. What!? Raiders defending the ease of LFR? How can this be?!?

[talann]

So what was everyone doing at max level in the days before LFR?

U guys make it sound like they were standing around doing fukk all cos there was fukk all to do... that 99% of players ur describing, were they really so fukked off before LFR was created?

I think u will find that Wrath had the most successful model which kept the largest amount of players happy... and yes that was a time before LFR.

The problem is you and I don't know why those 5 million people left WoW. On top of that, you also can't say a fair amount quit because of LFR or hated it in general.
I feel like the reason they have LFR and looking for dungeon or anything that eliminates the need to spam trade chat for groups is to make the game more accessible.
People love to bash LFR but what is the difference between that and Dungeon finder? Why is dungeon finder an acceptable tool but LFR is not? The end goal is to get loot and in a game that has seen its brightest days behind it, I think it should do everything it can to be more accessible. The game has been as popular as it has because of the innovation and new ideas.

[zorkuus]

You're right. RNG is RNG. You got insanely lucky.

Not insanely lucky, just a bit luckier than on my earlier alts, which still got plenty of burden gear after a while.

[DeadmanWalking]

You'll also find I'm not defending LFR and it was a god damned example. As in, not at all accurate, and the fact that you chose to pick out that one point of this post to bash me on a topic I'm agreeing with you on is rather silly.

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Did. Only killed rares for two weeks straight.

Got zero burdens. Still.

RNG is RNG, you at least don't get locked out of killing rares after you kill it once. I have a friend who screamed bloody murder in LFR for the entirety of Mop Tier I because even though they ran the water boss in Toes 3 times a week (saving all coins for this boss) they never got the sha touched weapon they wanted and only got it 2 weeks after throne of thunder went live.

Sorry but rng is no escuse for removing LFR.

[Deleted]

People love to bash LFR but what is the difference between that and Dungeon finder? Why is dungeon finder an acceptable tool but LFR is not?

There is a massive glaring difference between the two... you are missing the elephant in the room.

Dungeon finder was a tool added to Wow to find players for an existing part of the game, Dungeons. Nothing was changed or added to the game apart from the finder itself.

LFR was implemented with an entirely new and scaled version of raiding.

Basically, it is not the fact u can just click on que and sit and wait to join a raid thats the problem... its the heavily scaled 'raid' and everything attached to that 'raid' which is the issue.

[talann]

RNG is RNG, you at least don't get locked out of killing rares after you kill it once. I have a friend who screamed bloody murder in LFR for the entirety of Mop Tier I because even though they ran the water boss in Toes 3 times a week (saving all coins for this boss) they never got the sha touched weapon they wanted and only got it 2 weeks after throne of thunder went live.

Sorry but rng is no escuse for removing LFR.

Furthermore, RNG is what RPGs are supposed to be about. You grind for exp (by questing or dungeons etc.) you kill bosses for the chance for loot to drop. Everything you do in this game you hope for a chance for something to drop. If RNG was in vanilla WoW with 40 man dungeons and it made it's way to now in LFR, why would would want to remove LFR?

[Anzaman]

All I want is an alternative that is equally as good at gearing that isn't shit. Bring back dungeon catch ups on a weekly reset and I'll be fine with whatever the fuck they decide to do with LFR. I really couldn't care less.

Apparently LFR-players doesn't care about LFR, since Blizzard have said that granting viable alternative way would kill LFR -tool.

[talann]

There is a massive glaring difference between the two... you are missing the elephant in the room.

Dungeon finder was a tool added to Wow to find players for an existing part of the game, Dungeons. Nothing was changed or added to the game apart from the finder itself.

LFR was implemented with an entirely new and scaled version of raiding.

Basically, it is not the fact u can just click on que and sit and wait to join a raid thats the problem... its the heavily scaled 'raid' and everything attached to that 'raid' which is the issue.

So the gear is scaled as well as the raid. Why is that an issue? Since dungeon finder has been implemented, Dungeons have become a lot less monotonous, the size and time of the dungeon has gone down significantly, and anyone can pretty much breeze through them. Both were tailored for more accessibility.

[DeadmanWalking]

There is a massive glaring difference between the two... you are missing the elephant in the room.

Dungeon finder was a tool added to Wow to find players for an existing part of the game, Dungeons. Nothing was changed or added to the game apart from the finder itself.

LFR was implemented with an entirely new and scaled version of raiding.

Basically, it is not the fact u can just click on que and sit and wait to join a raid thats the problem... its the heavily scaled 'raid' and everything attached to that 'raid' which is the issue.

Cool, we will just make more dungeons and less raids. Problem solved. Casuals get what they want, stuff to do, and raiders get what they want, less people doing raids. Less raids, but you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, its tastes the same as the omelette where the elitists eggs get broken but instead -all- raiders get their eggs broken. 2 tiers of 6 bosses instead of 2 tiers of 12-15 bosses. Problem solved.

[Tharkkun]

Why did they put gear drops then?

Because WoW is based on character and gear progression. Whatever you do in this game whether it's pet battles, pve or pvp there's progression.