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  1. #941
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerchunk View Post
    If it's only "most" players and it only "kind of feels" that way, then it's not mandatory. By definition.
    For folks who aren't in active raid guilds, or rely on pugging, LFR most certainly is mandatory. I don't really see this changing at all once WoD hits.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  2. #942
    And as for alts gearing up the later in the expansion you gear up the easier it is for a geared up raid group to drag you to the loot, with the invention of cross realm oqueue this became infinitely easier as you could gear up with flex gear in your free time. I know in the future you can't invite people with a higher ilevel than you but there is nothing stopping your higher ilevel friend from doing the inviting, gauranteeing a carry.

  3. #943
    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    Bang up job, you should be president and solve all the worlds problems.
    That's the thing, though. There's no problem to solve. It's 50 pages of arguing about a problem that is complete fabricated simply to fill 50 pages with nonsense. What insightful information have come out of the last 50 pages of discussion that we didn't know before we started? Some people hate LFR? Is that the big revelation here and are we supposed to pretend like we didn't already fucking know that before these 50 pages of text?

    LFR has been one of the most successful and popular additions to the game since it's inception - and everyone knows this. Debating about it's removal from the game, let alone for 50 pages, is downright fucking delusional. It's like going to a kid's birthday party and starting up a debate about how much you hate cupcakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    For folks who aren't in active raid guilds, or rely on pugging, LFR most certainly is mandatory.
    Holy shit, no. That's not what the word mandatory means. Mandatory means required unconditionally. You're putting conditions on it, which means it's not mandatory.

    Someone who relies on PuGs for raids has a choice: Do LFR or stop relying on PuGs for raids. Either one is a viable solution, so LFR is not fucking mandatory. That's just it.

  4. #944
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerchunk View Post

    Holy shit, no. That's not what the word mandatory means. Mandatory means required unconditionally. You're putting conditions on it, which means it's not mandatory.

    Someone who relies on PuGs for raids has a choice: Do LFR or stop relying on PuGs for raids. Either one is a viable solution, so LFR is not fucking mandatory. That's just it.
    Well, even playing the game isn't mandatory, if you want to split hairs in such a fashion. The condition here is that said player wants to raid something past LFR. Bottom line? My example alt who just dinged 90 'right now' is going to get to around ilvl 500 on TI, which is about 40 points under what most pugs accept. Even with a few burdens, vp bits, and crafted items, LFR is going to be needed to round that set.

    Now here comes the "no way, I landed 4 burdens and a warforged drop on my first visit to TI" anecdotes.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  5. #945
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    For folks who aren't in active raid guilds, or rely on pugging, LFR most certainly is mandatory. I don't really see this changing at all once WoD hits.
    Its not mandatory, you can use oqueue or what ever oqueue-like thing blizzard puts in the game to turn flex mode into an LFR without a queue. I put my DK alt through flex and normal mode just by doing oqueue an hour a night. Hell half the way through SoO the LFR players were already filtering into Flex mode and turning flex into lfr.

    If it's mandatory it's because you either didn't want to do any alternative gearing because it required more effort than LFR or you just were not looking for other ways to gear up.

  6. #946
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I would use 'optional'. Anything that involves a player's 'feelings' is most assuredly optional. Every time.
    I don't feel it's adequately descriptive.

    Something is optional then it's not required.
    But LFR and flying mounts are sort of those "offers you can't refuse."
    Take it or leave it but there are consequences.

    Is the loot table out yet for LFR?
    Last edited by HeedmySpeed; 2014-09-04 at 07:11 PM.

  7. #947
    The Lightbringer Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    What other word would you use instead of mandatory? LFR isn't mandatory in the same sense that airplanes aren't mandatory for domestic traveling (i.e state to state).


    Bang up job, you should be president and solve all the worlds problems.
    There's not a single moment where LFR is mandatory. Even now you can do timeless isle and then jump into normal TOT or flex/normal SOO if you've upgraded your items with burdens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    For folks who aren't in active raid guilds, or rely on pugging, LFR most certainly is mandatory. I don't really see this changing at all once WoD hits.
    Are you prevented from walking into a MOP raid, or queuing for a flex because you didn't complete LFR first? No.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  8. #948
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerchunk View Post
    That's the thing, though. There's no problem to solve. It's 50 pages of arguing about a problem that is complete fabricated simply to fill 50 pages with nonsense. What insightful information have come out of the last 50 pages of discussion that we didn't know before we started? Some people hate LFR? Is that the big revelation here and are we supposed to pretend like we didn't already fucking know that before these 50 pages of text?

    LFR has been one of the most successful and popular additions to the game since it's inception - and everyone knows this. Debating about it's removal from the game, let alone for 50 pages, is downright fucking delusional. It's like going to a kid's birthday party and starting up a debate about how much you hate cupcakes.

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    Holy shit, no. That's not what the word mandatory means. Mandatory means required unconditionally. You're putting conditions on it, which means it's not mandatory.

    Someone who relies on PuGs for raids has a choice: Do LFR or stop relying on PuGs for raids. Either one is a viable solution, so LFR is not fucking mandatory. That's just it.
    They are trying to defund LFR to get rid of it because they can't get rid of it. They complain that it is mandatory so Blizzard takes the reason it is mandatory out to fix it. You continue to complain that if there is any reward what so every that -could- give you an advantage if you put some effort into getting it then it is mandatory in hopes that they take that out. Hell if there is transmog in there then its mandatory, a pet or a set of truck nuts, its mandatory. If you complain everything is mandatory maybe Blizz will remove all rewards and then no one will have a reason to do it and if no one is doing it then LFR goes away.

    It's basically trying to defund it via whiney bitching because unlike a politician these guys don't have any influence what so ever.

  9. #949
    Quote Originally Posted by wilsim View Post
    Tier gear is the best gear, since the set bonus' is always very high boost to your dps/hps/survivability. Using full lfr gear with set bonus' is better than using full heroic off-piece gear because the tier bonus is worth much more than the actual stats(ilvl). Do you honestly not see a problem with this?
    woah since when does a lfr ilvl 4 set become better than hc warfoged offsets? You are not even a hc raider, if so you are one of those 'hc raiders in BiS 6 months after content was cleared and practically outgear the encounter now type dudes' OR you are in a 25m and were one of the 5 players that got carried. How you can get stat weights so wrong is laughable either that or trolling

  10. #950
    Quote Originally Posted by spaceape View Post
    woah since when does a lfr ilvl 4 set become better than hc warfoged offsets? You are not even a hc raider, if so you are one of those 'hc raiders in BiS 6 months after content was cleared and practically outgear the encounter now type dudes' OR you are in a 25m and were one of the 5 players that got carried. How you can get stat weights so wrong is laughable either that or trolling
    It really doesn't matter as there will no longer be raid-like trinkets or tier gear in lfr, so the argument is moot now. Nobody who ever used that argument ever actually tested a full set of HC gear without Tier against a fullset of HC gear+lfr tier to see what the spread difference is. There were a few tier bonuses that were hot, but a lot of them were pretty useless.

    I'll also argue that some people liked to complain about tier and trinkets in lfr but if they were going into a flex and they had the choice between a healer in LFR gear with trinkets and tier and a guy in all non-tier lfr gear with dungeon trinkets they would choose the tiered lfr guy in a heartbeat because it benefitted their run but if it didn't directly impact their run they were totally against it.

    Also note that Celestials ACTUALLY drop Normal Raid tier gloves and tier pants for no effort which you could zerg if you died. The gloves in particular had a high chance of dropping, of my 10 man guild everyone had theirs by week 3 of the celestials. half had the pants too. It took me 2 months to get the pants personally. But no one complains about them because they are not in LFR and they hates the LFRitses, Hates them! Hate's them I do! They stoles my precious purples! Stoles them they did! Nastey LFRitses... Nastey...

  11. #951
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    I don't feel it's adequately descriptive.

    Something is optional then it's not required.
    But LFR and flying mounts are sort of those "offers you can't refuse."
    Take it or leave it but there are consequences.

    Is the loot table out yet for LFR?
    1. It might be but I don't scan the horizon for loot tables.

    2. If you don't like 'optional' then try 'unnecessary'. You can get to exactly the same place--heroic mode raiding--by doing any number of other things that aren't LFR. If you can't refuse LFR then that's your problem. If there are no flying mounts in WoD, I'll miss them but I'll get by fine without them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    It's basically trying to defund it via whiney bitching because unlike a politician these guys don't have any influence what so ever.
    If they manage to do it they're not going to like the consequences.
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  12. #952
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Its not mandatory, you can use oqueue or what ever oqueue-like thing blizzard puts in the game to turn flex mode into an LFR without a queue. I put my DK alt through flex and normal mode just by doing oqueue an hour a night. Hell half the way through SoO the LFR players were already filtering into Flex mode and turning flex into lfr.

    If it's mandatory it's because you either didn't want to do any alternative gearing because it required more effort than LFR or you just were not looking for other ways to gear up.
    Oqueue normally requires a decent ilvl. To get that w/o LFR you'll have to nab PvP gear and Burden of Eternity + Drops from Timeless Isle. That's the route I took as you suggested. Problem is PvP gear has a stigma for being awful in PvE and I was removed from a few groups for having a few pieces of it, nevermind those in full PvP gear. Also not everyone enjoys PvP which is required to get the 550 gear. I personally just farmed up Burden's of Eternity.

    So I only did a full LFR clear once so far for both ToT and SoO. I got into Flex using what gear I got from those initial runs, Timeless Isle and Arena. I'm also a tank though and people where people are more willing to be a bit more lenient since they are harder to find. People can be brutal on DPS reqs because of how expendable they are.

    So as LFR stands I'm fine with it now I guess since I don't have to it. Even if I did it would be only for a few bosses. My biggest concern as mentioned in the video in my OP is LFR kind of get's rid of a lot motivation in the game. I was very happy that I was able to down Rag in a 10 man pug, it wasn't easy but it felt good when I did. Killing Deathwing though on LFR....I had no motivation to go further since I killed him already besides "better purplez"
    Last edited by Kahmal; 2014-09-04 at 08:49 PM.

  13. #953
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Well, even playing the game isn't mandatory, if you want to split hairs in such a fashion.
    How is that splitting hairs? Who ever claimed playing the game is mandatory? Nobody ever made that claim... I'm not sure who you think you're "getting" with this clever little... wut? I don't even know what this means.

    The condition here is that said player wants to raid something past LFR.
    Yes, and the fact that they have more than one way to accomplish that goal means LFR isn't mandatory. IF you want to rely on PuGs then you probably need some LFR gear but you don't have to rely on PuGs. Therefore, not fucking mandatory. k?

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