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  1. #121
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Ghostcrawler: we want you to celebrate when you win instead of it being a foregone conclusion
    I guess they didn't realize yet back then this would be regarded as bad game design by most 'gamers' nowadays.
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  2. #122
    Dreadlord Akaihiryuu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Your ideas there are completely unrealistic. Cataclysm disabused Blizzard of the notion that the player base can be engineered to be better (except by amputating most of it, and that's not acceptable from a business point of view); you would be wise to realize that also. Players are under no obligation to improve in order to save your preferred business model, and demonstrated that they would not do so.

    WildStar has recently tried to cater to the elite fraction of gamers at the expense of the "bads", and is failing catastrophically.
    Honestly, Blizzard has the right solution to this, that Wildstar completely overlooked: multiple difficulty levels. Let the elite players have their ridiculously hard content (mythic raids), the less elite but still competent have their content (heroic dungeons, normal/heroic raids), and the "bads" as you put it have their content (normal dungeons and LFR). There's nothing wrong with having content for the super elite players, as long as you don't exclude everyone else at the same time like Wildstar did.

    WOD is doing dungeons and raids right this time. Heroic dungeons are not part of the "easy" progression path this time (LFR). Normal dungeons (which are fairly easy) will gear you up to do LFR without a problem. Heroic dungeons are intended for the more skilled players that want to push into normal/heroic raiding.
    Last edited by Akaihiryuu; 2014-08-18 at 04:11 PM.

  3. #123
    Pandaren Monk Forgettable's Avatar
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    I would appreciate if someone would quote what was said in the tweet because my work blocks twitter and I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Delti View Post
    If Forgettable knew what he was doing with his keyboard, I would totally kick his ass in dps!
    ^ My guild leader while drunk.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarch the Subduer View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Ghostcrawler: we want you to celebrate when you win instead of it being a foregone conclusion
    I guess they didn't realize yet back then this would be regarded as bad game design by most 'gamers' nowadays.
    What they didn't stop to consider is what happens when a player comes to believe that winning isn't going to happen. Sure, winning is sweeter when it's hard fought, but not winning is maximally bitter. Making the better performers slightly happier while hugely pissing off the lesser players isn't a recipe for success.

    The devs might have been thinking that they could string along the non-winners, via the power of wishful thinking. But that becomes less feasible as players get more experience with MMOs. Most of us can now realize when success is or isn't going to happen. We've properly calibrated how well we, and the groups we run with, can perform.
    Last edited by Osmeric; 2014-08-18 at 04:17 PM.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  5. #125
    Mechagnome Layuth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgettable View Post
    I would appreciate if someone would quote what was said in the tweet because my work blocks twitter and I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
    Does your work block the first page of this thread too? Read Espada's second post.
    "If I recall correctly I just posted that this topic is not to be discussed any further." -Ensidia Fanclub Founder

  6. #126
    Scarab Lord Conscious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I recall at the time the complaints that the post was condescending. I didn't think it was, but I did think it was deeply mistaken, and a bit desperate. Players were not, overall, going to get better..
    Hence the retrospective posts in your signature.

    Unfortunately he did come off as largely condescending. He knew what he was doing when he wrote the title, as well as was confirmed by the damage control he did down the line.
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  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Wacomman View Post
    That's what people said about GC, too.

    He was just being too active and open for a game with that many subscribers. PR is a delicate thing if you want to present a lot of things in a very bright light so having too much interaction can be a bad thing.

    Ever since GC left the house it seems to me like he's pretty insulted over the whole thing because he might think he's super duper important but the truth is there have been a lot of people calling for his head the whole time he was at the helm.
    GC's remarks were fine when they stuck to technical or implementation details. In person, he interviewed pretty well.

    But pretty much everything he said in writing that related to the overall direction of the game, he managed to do in a clumsy, confrontational way.

  8. #128
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    What they didn't stop to consider is what happens when a player comes to believe that winning isn't going to happen. Sure, winning is sweeter when it's hard fought, but not winning is maximally bitter. Making the better performers slightly happier while hugely pissing off the lesser players isn't a recipe for success.

    The devs might have been thinking that they could string along the non-winners, via the power of wishful thinking. But that becomes less feasible as players get more experience with MMOs. Most of us can now realize when success is or isn't going to happen. We've properly calibrated how well we, and the groups we run with, can perform.
    I came here expecting the usual MMO-C drivel. That's actually pretty damn insightful, Os. (did the universe rip itself apart yet?)

    The other problem is when someone gets the feeling of being treated as second-class customers by the developers. Especially in the MMO market which exploded around the time Wrath hit shelves, you can't just tell the bad players "suck it up or leave," because with so many free-play MMOs today that are willing to embrace (and nickel-and-dime) casual players with little time but fat wallets, they'll call you on your bluff. WoW's devs had to learn that the hard way in both directions (there are just as many grindfests willing to take WoW's castaway hardcores) and they're hoping to strike that balance again with Warlords, I guess. That or they're hoping a massive appeal to nostalgia will bring back retired BC vets.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

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