Gabbexd #1 Overall DPS - How does he do it?

[Eightythree]

Well, that would be true if the DPS didn't had methods to cheese without having any vengeance.

Also, I don't see anything bad wrt cheesing for rankings, vengeance or not. They do the fight more complicated, think outside the box and reap the rewards. Most people won't go that road, so the competition is almost null, but that's not his fault. There is also rankings for the faster kills, which are probably more interesting (although, class stacking). The only thing they should do with rankings is freeze them the instant a patch drops.

I'm not saying its a bad thing to cheese. I'm just saying that with the current design of Tanks, you are HAVE to cheese Vengeance to gain rankings. Which is fine, but it forces you to play selfishly (IE solo tanking).

[Darkfriend]

So very glad they are converting Vengeance into a purely defensive stat...

Honestly, this far into the tier half the fun is finding new ways that work (or don't work) to improve DPS. Some legit, some cheese.

[Pickwickman]

Honestly, this far into the tier half the fun is finding new ways that work (or don't work) to improve DPS. Some legit, some cheese.

This.

This tier has been retardedly long, let people have their fun.

[Methyl]

The way I see it is there's a way you can have a more efficient raid clear during farm, and increase the speed of your boss kills overall - you should really do whatever it takes to make it happen.

We've opted to 1 tank several fights just to improve kill times, and overall it does make a pretty big difference.

When it comes to the latter of leaving adds alive to be cleaved, it really takes away from efficiency and is more or less pointless. The Nazgrim logs show tanks/DPS with all of the faithfuls and shamans from the previous trash tanked together and literally just AoE'ed the entire fight without contributing to boss damage at all.

With that said though, nearly a year into SoO - if that's what people enjoy doing then more the power to them.

[Tyrgannus]

Vengeance cheesing has always been silly. It would be a lie to say I've NEVER done it, but I won't shed tears when it is gone (supposedly it is gone in WoD, right?)

[Methyl]

Yep, it's gone. Replaced by Resolve which still gives you the AP/Healing portion of vengeance without the offensive attack power. So you'll still be able to have scaling shield barriers when you take more damage, but won't deal more as an effect of this.

I'm really curious as to how challenge modes will turn out without vengeance.

[Promdates]

I'm really curious as to how challenge modes will turn out without vengeance.

It's going to be balanced around the fact that we won't have vengeance. CMs were originally balanced with the fact that we had it, and people abused it in order to achieve high ranked times. It's the sole reason that the vengeance change of 5.4 wasn't implemented in CMs.

[Deleted]

So very glad they are converting Vengeance into a purely defensive stat...

Why care? If it helps them to have fun farming out the content, then why not?

- - - Updated - - -

If only was a way to sift out logs that have abnormal damage done to mobs inconsistent with a straight forward kill to view accurate logs, that would make logging more streamlines and less cheesed fights.

Thats what percentiles do for you. Unless you assume that everyone cheeses the encounter.

[Eranthe]

Why care? If it helps them to have fun farming out the content, then why not?

if everyone is cheesing their face off to meter pad, rankings are not an accurate metric of player skill. they MIGHT be an accurate metric of player skill, but we can't know. they might be a mediocre player that happens to be in a guild that pulls all the trash in the room and brings extra healers and leaves all the adds alive so people can look good on meters.

then you have people that look at logs and decide based on someone's percentiles how good they are at raiding. if the percentiles are driven up into the stratosphere because people are abusing fight mechanics, and one has not so impressive logs because their guild was killing it the intended way, one might be excluded from joining a new guild that they are good enough to join and would otherwise have fit in really well.

this is just an example and there are other reasons why abusing mechanics to gain an advantage in order to have better ranks is misleading and at the worst, detrimental to killing bosses quickly and easily. you've gotta trust your players to "turn off" the meter pad mindset one progression, and in my experience, the temptation is too great for a lot of people.

[Nightstalker]

doesn't mean anything if you're going to RIDICULOUSLY great lengths to exploit any possible advantage you can. honestly i think it's stupid that you can pull trash with the boss and have legitimate ranks. it's already stupid enough that you have to leave adds alive for a long time to meter pad, but abusing every possible mechanic just isn't a road i want to go down.

Managed to get world #4 as arms without all that crap. Maybe Deep Wounds/Bstorm nonsense on Klaxxi, but that seems to be the standard right now.

[Gouca]

Juggernaut: Solo Tanking... (require a very fast kill time)

This applies to almost every boss. Look at the difference it gave to our tank

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings...zYT8#boss=1600

[Warriorsarri]

Tbf, additional adds on certain fights matter more than a fast kill time. If you where to compare these logs of before the adds died, and after we cleaned them up you'll see some fun things.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...pe=damage-done Full fight, killed adds when BL was popped.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...14&end=3330954 up until we killed off the adds, our AoEers died and our RL didn't want to risk wiping.

[Deleted]

I remember gathering unhittable gear in Wrath, and i dont know how thats going for us here in Pandaria but i can see how it could have some cool effects on a few bosses(like for example solo tanking malk and then just saving cd's for this cleave phase).

As for me my warrior is currently an alt sitting around 535 ilvl and i'm going mostly for avoidance. I'm at around 70% counting in block aswell and i can definately see warriors going full out for it hitting 102,4%.

Is this a thing today?

[TRENCHCRAFT]

I'm glad the OP has finally been told what Vengeance abusing is.

[meteo]

I remember gathering unhittable gear in Wrath, and i dont know how thats going for us here in Pandaria but i can see how it could have some cool effects on a few bosses(like for example solo tanking malk and then just saving cd's for this cleave phase).

As for me my warrior is currently an alt sitting around 535 ilvl and i'm going mostly for avoidance. I'm at around 70% counting in block aswell and i can definately see warriors going full out for it hitting 102,4%.

Is this a thing today?

Block is no longer on the same roll as dodge/parry. It's first checked if it is hits or misses and if it hits, you get a second roll for block. This makes it impossible to reach the cap.

@Malk: You can already tank the 1st phase solo and kill him before he starts cleaving [10man]

[Warriorsarri]

You can do that on 25man as well.

[Eightythree]

I'm glad the OP has finally been told what Vengeance abusing is.

I know what Vengeance abuse is, and I am currently ranked in the top 50 DPS wise for Prot Warriors. Just a few fights that I didn't know could be cheesed to the ridiculous IE Dark Shamans + Trash, Nazgrim + Trash.

[Dasani]

This is one reason why I'm pretty excited about WoD. With no more Vengeance cheesing, it will keep ranks more legitimate.

Pulling a bunch of adds that can heal themselves so they never die into a boss encounter and aoe/cleaving them the entire time will still make you do much much higher damage than a legitimate tank doing the fight properly.

Even without vengeance, rankings will still be completely pointless.

[Eranthe]

the way to fix aoe cheesing is simple. cause any extra adds pulled with boss to enrage him or something, and mass pulling is solved.

as far as adds that become active during the fight, make them contribute to killing the boss faster (aka Alar) instead of punishing melee that have to switch and rewarding multidotters.

ex: every add killed reduces boss hp by .5%.

[Promdates]

the way to fix aoe cheesing is simple. cause any extra adds pulled with boss to enrage him or something, and mass pulling is solved.

as far as adds that become active during the fight, make them contribute to killing the boss faster (aka Alar) instead of punishing melee that have to switch and rewarding multidotters.

ex: every add killed reduces boss hp by .5%.

That's the same situation as Norushen. His small adds that spawn reduce the boss's HP by a %.