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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    That's a bit of a reach. I was simply saying crafted gear shouldn't be shit gear just because it's crafted. As it stands the final level of the crafted gear is worse than Heroic, is going to be stupidly expensive to craft, most likely require mats from disenchanted raid gear from Normal+ and take a while even to craft if Savage Blood can only be obtained from the Barn. For those that are good at raiding they'll have gear that's better than the crafted within the first month while more Casual players at least will have an option for gearing that isn't LFR/Flex provided they have the money/time to farm.
    So gear that we can get in the first week without doing any raid content is worse than gear we won't get for a month? Sounds balanced to me.

    The valor belts? They were nice starting belts but I would blame that more on Blizzard doing shit planning when it came to raid drops (seriously, Rogues got legendary daggers yet had the most weapon options of everyone, including a ranged dagger from the first boss) than valor gear being too good; several classes replaced their valor belt with a normal/heroic piece.
    Wrists, my bad. That were BiS for half the specs and only beaten by hc for the others.

    So the crafted gear, already not going to be bis due to ilvl issues, will be even more costly to get perfect stats. I really don't see why this is an issue at all for anyone that raids at a semi-serious level.
    Because gold is no object for anyone at a semi-serious level. The mere obtainability of such versatile and powerful items is enough from professions without you being able to do it in half your slots.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  2. #22
    Herald of the Titans Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    So the crafted gear, already not going to be bis due to ilvl issues, will be even more costly to get perfect stats. I really don't see why this is an issue at all for anyone that raids at a semi-serious level.
    Actually no, it'll be easier to get stats you want (not sure about "perfect") as the cost is less for a reroll. The reroll item (crafted) requires only 3 of the daily CD item (i.e. Burnish leather for Leatherworkers), whereas crafting a new item would require 10.

    Given that you can use your daily CD up to 3 times in 1 day (24hr CD per recharge), it's not as bad as it sounds.
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  3. #23
    Deleted
    Oh thats a nice feature i'm surprised I didnt see it earlier

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    So gear that we can get in the first week without doing any raid content is worse than gear we won't get for a month? Sounds balanced to me.
    Has Blizzard announced what the mats are for the item upgrade stuff? Cause if it requires mats only obtainable from raids then 640 is the best you're going to be able to craft for the most part and I imagine that the Challenge Mode daily dungeon gear will be better in terms of raw ilvl. Even if they're the same ilvl I don't see what the problem is with crafted gear being a decent starting set for PvE considering PvP already has this and it works well enough as a way to start the season. Plus Blizzard could pull a fast one on us and change the required crafting mats for the gear to include Savage Blood which will drastically reduce the availability of this gear even with 2.5 weeks before the first raid opens up.

    Wrists, my bad. That were BiS for half the specs and only beaten by hc for the others.
    Again, blame Blizzard for its terrible decisions when it came to loot distribution in DS rather than Valor gear being decent that tier. Surprised you didn't mention the cloak, which literally was BiS for all but Agility users and tanks because there was no other option. Agility users and tanks continued to use Heroic Rhyolith's cloak because of the extra gem socket and better itemization.

    Because gold is no object for anyone at a semi-serious level. The mere obtainability of such versatile and powerful items is enough from professions without you being able to do it in half your slots.
    The highest ilvl of dungeon gear is 630 and that's probably normal mode 100 dungeons. I wouldn't be surprised if heroic dungeon gear was at least 640, making any difference between full crafted and heroic dungeon almost negligible.

  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Has Blizzard announced what the mats are for the item upgrade stuff?
    Blizzard: No, but Wowhead has datamined quite a bit of information. Basically you need the daily CD crafted mat (i.e. Burnished Leather for LW) and Savage Blood which is produced by the Barn garrison building after leveling to max level AND trapping the right kind of mob.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    The highest ilvl of dungeon gear is 630 and that's probably normal mode 100 dungeons. I wouldn't be surprised if heroic dungeon gear was at least 640, making any difference between full crafted and heroic dungeon almost negligible.
    Except full crafted gear can be upgraded twice to a final ilv 665 but heroic dungeon drops can roll Warforged.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Has Blizzard announced what the mats are for the item upgrade stuff? Cause if it requires mats only obtainable from raids then 640 is the best you're going to be able to craft for the most part and I imagine that the Challenge Mode daily dungeon gear will be better in terms of raw ilvl. Even if they're the same ilvl I don't see what the problem is with crafted gear being a decent starting set for PvE considering PvP already has this and it works well enough as a way to start the season. Plus Blizzard could pull a fast one on us and change the required crafting mats for the gear to include Savage Blood which will drastically reduce the availability of this gear even with 2.5 weeks before the first raid opens up.
    Crafted gear has ALWAYS been decent for the first few weeks in PvE.


    Again, blame Blizzard for its terrible decisions when it came to loot distribution in DS rather than Valor gear being decent that tier. Surprised you didn't mention the cloak, which literally was BiS for all but Agility users and tanks because there was no other option. Agility users and tanks continued to use Heroic Rhyolith's cloak because of the extra gem socket and better itemization.
    Why is a hc raid drop comparable to a CRAFTED item in your mind?


    The highest ilvl of dungeon gear is 630 and that's probably normal mode 100 dungeons. I wouldn't be surprised if heroic dungeon gear was at least 640, making any difference between full crafted and heroic dungeon almost negligible.
    You mean that 665 crafted gear? So you don't have a clue about ilvls either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Blizzard: No, but Wowhead has datamined quite a bit of information. Basically you need the daily CD crafted mat (i.e. Burnished Leather for LW) and Savage Blood which is produced by the Barn garrison building after leveling to max level AND trapping the right kind of mob.
    Except full crafted gear can be upgraded twice to a final ilv 665 but heroic dungeon drops can roll Warforged.[/QUOTE]

    So are there actually going to be two different crafting ways to generate Burnished Leather and the other profession specific mats? Seems a bit redundant and will lead to Blizzard either axing one, increasing material cost to make the upgrade stuff, reducing how much of the crafting mats are produced, or some combination of those three.

    But lets also look at the current mat breakdown of crafted gear, using Leatherworking as an example:

    1x 665 upgrade = 350 Burnished Leather (daily cd), 70 Sorcerous Water, 30 Savage Blood.
    1x item = 100 Burnished Leather, 1 Draenic related primary stat potion (Cloak) or varying amounts of Sumptuous Fur, Raw Beast Hide or True Iron Ore
    ?x re-roll items = 5 Burnished Leather, 10 Raw Beast Hide

    Assuming perfect stats on every piece it'll cost you 1800 (Cloak doesn't count towards total) Burnished Leather to get 4 pieces to 665. If someone with beta access can tell me how much Burnished Leather they create using the daily cd we can then figure out how many pieces we'd expect to have ready by the time raids unlock.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Crafted gear has ALWAYS been decent for the first few weeks in PvE.
    Yeah, so what's the problem? It won't be BiS because Heroic/Mythic gear will be better and people will be pushing that stuff come 2nd week after raids unlock. Every raid difficulty has a separate lockout so people will run WoD Normal/Heroic (does Heroic unlock same week raids unlock?) for gear as good as or better than the stage 3 crafted stuff to prepare for Mythic.

    Why is a hc raid drop comparable to a CRAFTED item in your mind?
    It's analogous to TBC crafted gear not being complete shit to start with but ultimately getting replaced for PvE purposes. And similar to TBC crafted gear it'll be on-par or weaker than raid drops from the comparable difficulty.

    You mean that 665 crafted gear? So you don't have a clue about ilvls either.
    And here I'm referring to the first stage stuff that's only 640. We know dungeons drop up to 630 and that's probably just 100 normals unless that 646 stuff is only Warforged 630 gear. If that's the case then stage 1 crafting will be comparable to Challenge Modes/LFR, stage 2 to WoD Normal and stage 3 to WoD Heroic; why is this a problem in your mind outside the current ease of obtaining crafting mats on the beta? I expect how quickly we generate those mats to diminish drastically on live via some combination of methods I mentioned earlier, thus reducing how much crafted gear will be generated per character. Sure, the top world progression guilds will just buy up all the crafted gear that they can but how is this any different than them buying up BMAH stuff, world drop epics or farming Conquest for PvP gear to fill in slots?

    Keep in mind that I'm trying to speak from the perspective of the average player whose raid progression is lucky to have downed a handful of currently Normal mode difficulty bosses before the next tier. Crafted goods allow them to increase their character power but they will always be inferior to raiders due to sub-par trinkets, weapons and lack of tier bonuses.

  8. #28
    Herald of the Titans Alroxas's Avatar
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    Currently there are two versions of the profession specific crafted mat CD. One produces 10 per charge, has 3 charges, 24 hr recharge time per charge. The second one produces 4 but may yield more based on profession skill and is on a daily CD. There's also a NPC who will craft/trade the crafted mat if you have that profession building as well.

    Regardless of the rate, crafted epics has always been the slower path to gear compared to actual raiding. Usually the race to for these items are the AH power sellers who know that progression raiders will play top gold for them.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Keep in mind that I'm trying to speak from the perspective of the average player whose raid progression is lucky to have downed a handful of currently Normal mode difficulty bosses before the next tier. Crafted goods allow them to increase their character power but they will always be inferior to raiders due to sub-par trinkets, weapons and lack of tier bonuses.
    Moving the goalposts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Moving the goalposts.
    How so? Crafted gear still will not be BiS by any stretch of the imagination.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    How so? Crafted gear still will not be BiS by any stretch of the imagination.
    It's on page 1 if you want to actually read my argument instead of getting your free crafted gear set and not replacing most of it until after progression is over and complaining that 3 pieces isn't enough, despite the crafted gear being better than previous expansions AND having 1 more slot, all the slots being of your choosing, and ability to have your ideal stats on.

    Clearly we should just MAIL everyone a full gear that is 1lvl below mythic when tehy ding, since hey - at least its not BiS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    It's on page 1 if you want to actually read my argument instead of getting your free crafted gear set and not replacing most of it until after progression is over and complaining that 3 pieces isn't enough, despite the crafted gear being better than previous expansions AND having 1 more slot, all the slots being of your choosing, and ability to have your ideal stats on.

    Clearly we should just MAIL everyone a full gear that is 1lvl below mythic when tehy ding, since hey - at least its not BiS.
    I did read your argument and I think you're overreacting that full crafted gear will be an expected requirement to raid. As far as I can tell it will only be possible to get a single piece of gear to stage 3 (assuming no raid mats obtained via disenchanting or raid drops) by the time raids open up considering how many of the soulbound materials are required; only doable if you get your Garrison built up to unlock the crafting building you want on day 1 of WoD.

    So yeah, for raiders crafted gear will be a nice start to the expansion but will become insignificant as the tier progresses specifically due to how long it takes to craft the gear while for more casual players it'll be something to look forward to getting. Because of that it seems silly to me to restrict this to three pieces since all this will accomplish is making crafting professions trivial to have within a few months just like Cata and MoP.

    Edit: So we aren't continually going back and forth if it ends up being that you can get to stage 3 of the crafted armor without raid drops of some sort then yes, I'll agree that it's fine that we're restricted in how many pieces we can have equipped.
    Last edited by Trubo; 2014-08-25 at 03:45 PM.

  13. #33
    Think of them like Pokemon.

    You know, since battle pets were such a huge hit, you can now evolve your gear, too.

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