Gamergate - OP updated 27 October

[Holtzmann]

Well she had problems with actual stalkers that went to her home in the past, i think that is hardly the norm for the average gamer. It's understandably that she is a bit more cautious, don't you think ?

Not really, no. It would make sense if she considered everyone a potential stalker, which I don't think she does. Instead, she's singled out two guys in game t-shirts she's never seen before and likely will never see again as a possible threat. I mentioned her as a counterpoint to when you said that the "people who are interested in the whole thing are the people that are in any way or form interested in gaming and i doubt that they are all so easily influenced by Ms Wu on television". Felicia Day is very likely someone who's interested in gaming, and she was influenced by the toxic rhetoric and threats being flung around. It might not have been Brianna's appearance specifically, but it shows that this thing can have an effect on the general public and on people who would otherwise know better.

You know the trolls are going at it hardcore when someone who's been stalked more than once starts adopting that sort of behavior.

Alternatively, she might have been prompted to do that due to someone else' influence. This is pure speculation, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if her fears hadn't been developed by hearsay from her friends. For example, Will Wheaton (who IIRC is a pretty Social Justice-heavy kind of guy).

[Keile]

Yes, but it's not just that bad apples are lashing out, it's that the media keeps giving those bad apples the attention. The media controls the narrative, because they have the power to do that, because they are organized and they have a much larger audience. If they ignored the bad apples and focused on the rest of the gamergate movement, then gamergate would actually have more of a positive label.

That was my point. The media loves people like that because they can just focus all their attention on, say, 1% of the crowd and make it seem like they speak for the rest of the 99% of the population. So these few bad apples caused the metaphorical (and sometimes literal) cameras to be pointed at them...and only them while the rest of our cries go unheard.

This is why I loathe the mainstream media.

[Tradewind]

I love how they're sitting there defending Sam Biddle too. "Oh it was just jokes!" Fucking Guardian.

[Edge-]

I love how they're sitting there defending Sam Biddle too. "Oh it was just jokes!" Fucking Guardian.

It's jokes when we do it, not when you do it!

Yeah, the hypocrisy really annoys the hell out of me : /

[Yriel]

Nathan Grayson DIDN'T review her game. https://twitter.com/Vahn16/status/501650041736396801 He was mentioned BY NAME by Zoe Quinn's malicious ex-boyfriend in accusations of corrupt game reviews.

You're not doing yourself any favors by not giving any evidence.

I don't know where you are going with that. Do you want to say that because one of the first videos on the whole thing was wrong in one single point (that there was an actual review by Nathan Grayson instead of just promotion), everyone pro-gg is by default wrong about everything ?

It's almost funny that every anti-gg'er uses that example because it seems to be the only thing where a prominent gg'er was actually wrong.

[Tradewind]

In my mind though, it's time to just stop all of this. Not because GamerGate is wrong, its probably as right as it possibly can be. You just can't win against these types of people, whose salary relies on them remaining ignorant. All they need to do is trot out some crazy story like this Felicia Day shit and it resets the clock. It's bullshit, but as long as this continues, that's how it's going to go. Every step in the right direction, is instantly shat on because of that one tiny percentage of people who can't seem to stay on point.

[erthwjim]

Well she had problems with actual stalkers that went to her home in the past, i think that is hardly the norm for the average gamer. It's understandably that she is a bit more cautious, don't you think ?

Yes, but she was saying normally she'd go speak to those 2 gamers, even thought she had had issues with individuals stalking her in the past, that didn't strongly prevent her from speaking with random gamers. So her current cautiousness to those 2 gamers mentioned in her blog is because of what she's read and heard about gamergate.

[Yriel]

Not really, no. It would make sense if she considered everyone a potential stalker, which I don't think she does. Instead, she's singled out two guys in game t-shirts she's never seen before and likely will never see again as a possible threat. I mentioned her as a counterpoint to when you said that the "people who are interested in the whole thing are the people that are in any way or form interested in gaming and i doubt that they are all so easily influenced by Ms Wu on television". Felicia Day is very likely someone who's interested in gaming, and she was influenced by the toxic rhetoric and threats being flung around. It might not have been Brianna's appearance specifically, but it shows that this thing can have an effect on the general public and on people who would otherwise know better.

You know the trolls are going at it hardcore when someone who's been stalked more than once starts adopting that sort of behavior.

Alternatively, she might have been prompted to do that due to someone else' influence. This is pure speculation, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if her fears hadn't been developed by hearsay from her friends. For example, Will Wheaton (who IIRC is a pretty Social Justice-heavy kind of guy).

Well but she had apparently problems with fans in the past and many gamers know her. So i still think she is in a special situation.

And i never said that every single gamer doesn't believe the SJW stuff, of course quite a few do. But i think them being in the MSM doesn't have that much of an influence on gamers. It doesn't have an influence on anything, really.
The "normal people" don't care either way and most people interested in gaming will stick to the websites and forums for their informations rather than to CNN or the Washington Post.

[Frozen Death Knight]

The shame here is that Gamergate is basically becoming a synonym to misogyny due to bad apples basically lashing out and harassing any and all female gamer/developer. It's real message is quickly being lost: truth in reviewing and the growing corruption of gaming journals/websites/companies. Honestly, gender is irrelevant: males can be just as guilty of buying reviews, whether with cash or sexual favors. We just don't hear about it as much because people tend not to "care" when males do it....and they should. They absolutely SHOULD care.

The people that need going-after are these companies who are accepting "payments" for reviews, and not the individual developers (such as Zoe) themselves.

Well, as I recall, a lot of people have been heavily criticizing the industry for years about this stuff, and very often there have been guys involved in those things. I don't see how this has been ignored when the current backlash is just the boiling point of years of build up.

[Keile]

Well, as I recall, a lot of people have been heavily criticizing the industry for years about this stuff, and very often there have been guys involved in those things. I don't see how this has been ignored when the current backlash is just the boiling point of years of build up.

The caring was aimed at the opponents of those speaking up, not those actually speaking up.

Basically if we spoke out about MALE developers doing this stuff the media would give this zero attention at all positive OR negative. But since there were some females in there suddenly they can twist it against us.


As for the games themselves and the reviews in question....this is why I resorted back to an old method. A method that predates the internet. I speak of the good ol' "ask my buddy who has the game what he thinks of it" method. It isn't as efficient, but at least it's more honest. Especially if your buddies have similar tastes to you.

[barackopala]

http://dailycaller.com/2014/10/23/ga...s-them-anyway/
Quite a good article that shows a bit more light on GG's path.

[erthwjim]

Gamersgate.com is getting a lot of harassment because people are mistaking it for gamergate:
https://archive.today/lVODT
The one thing I do like is Brian Crecente's description of gamergate, it's actually not completely biased.

[zealo]

In my mind though, it's time to just stop all of this. Not because GamerGate is wrong, its probably as right as it possibly can be. You just can't win against these types of people, whose salary relies on them remaining ignorant. All they need to do is trot out some crazy story like this Felicia Day shit and it resets the clock. It's bullshit, but as long as this continues, that's how it's going to go. Every step in the right direction, is instantly shat on because of that one tiny percentage of people who can't seem to stay on point.

While this is the case, its simply not going to end unless people stop adding more fuel to the fire, the only way this can go down at this point is a slow bleeding death as interest dies off due to nothing new happening.

[tehealadin]

On a side note, and this is an honest question- what evidence is there that many of these threats/doxxing etc came from people who associate themselves with GG?
I can't stand these people, their actions are not only shitty, but it also gives people ammunition to carpet bomb all gamers, but I hadn't seen anything concrete to say this isn't the work of trolls (an internet problem, not a gaming or GG problem). Can someone point me to some?

[Tradewind]

Unfortunately this seems to be the case. But I'm not stopping. I don't give a flying fuck how bad it gets - I shouldn't have to wonder how much someone was paid for giving a good review, I shouldn't have to wonder if a developer is only successful because they have friends in the industry, and I sure as hell shouldn't have to worry about someone fucking their way to good reviews.

I gave up on "professional" reviews ever since my Nintendo Power subscription I got for Christmas back when I was 7 ran out

I prefer my "ignore gaming media in general" position.

I make most of my purchasing decisions based on how much stupid shit robbaz does with it in his videos.

Case in point...I and my friends bought Farm Simulator based entirely on this video lol...



Moral of the story. Ignore so called "gaming media" and their shitty little problems cease to affect your day to day!

[erthwjim]

On a side note, and this is an honest question- what evidence is there that many of these threats/doxxing etc came from people who associate themselves with GG?
I can't stand these people, their actions are not only shitty, but it also gives people ammunition to carpet bomb all gamers, but I hadn't seen anything concrete to say this isn't the work of trolls (an internet problem, not a gaming or GG problem). Can someone point me to some?

I don't think there is any proof, except a few times people used the hashtag, but anyone can use a hashtag. But there have been many times where the hashtag was not used and it still ended up getting blamed on gamergate. For instance the whole University shooting threat, the guy never mentioned video games, and there really was no way it could have been linked to gamergate, but somehow the media made that leap.

[Edge-]

Gamersgate.com is getting a lot of harassment because people are mistaking it for gamergate:
https://archive.today/lVODT
The one thing I do like is Brian Crecente's description of gamergate, it's actually not completely biased.

Yeah, I was totally waiting for this to happen, knew it was inevitable : /

As for Crecente, he's a good dude. Seriously. He's an actual journalist, and usually acts like it.

[lpmafiota]

On a side note, and this is an honest question- what evidence is there that many of these threats/doxxing etc came from people who associate themselves with GG?
I can't stand these people, their actions are not only shitty, but it also gives people ammunition to carpet bomb all gamers, but I hadn't seen anything concrete to say this isn't the work of trolls (an internet problem, not a gaming or GG problem). Can someone point me to some?

I for one am not completely sure but either a)the attacks are aimed at anti-GG people and they automatically assume it must be pro-GG people that do that and not generic internet troll #31337 or b)the attacks include the hashtag and therefore the victims automatically assume... you get the idea - trolls make things bad for everyone cause, well, trolls... I guess some trolls ARE part of the hashtag but still, trolls will be trolls...

[Frozen Death Knight]

The caring was aimed at the opponents of those speaking up, not those actually speaking up.

Basically if we spoke out about MALE developers doing this stuff the media would give this zero attention at all positive OR negative. But since there were some females in there suddenly they can twist it against us.


As for the games themselves and the reviews in question....this is why I resorted back to an old method. A method that predates the internet. I speak of the good ol' "ask my buddy who has the game what he thinks of it" method. It isn't as efficient, but at least it's more honest. Especially if your buddies have similar tastes to you.

Ah, I see what you mean now. I agree. Heck, I think the media is being actually quite one sided against the opponents of GamerGate as well, since the news has basically been all about female developers and journalists getting harassed online, and not about both sexes being harassed. The media does a great disservice to the whole issue and frankly, it's quite sickening.

[barackopala]

I gave up on "professional" reviews ever since my Nintendo Power subscription I got for Christmas back when I was 7 ran out

I prefer my "ignore gaming media in general" position.

I make most of my purchasing decisions based on how much stupid shit robbaz does with it in his videos.

Case in point...I and my friends bought Farm Simulator based entirely on this video lol...

Moral of the story. Ignore so called "gaming media" and their shitty little problems cease to affect your day to day!

wish it was that easy fellow mmo-c'er but the thing is that this whole issue is spreading to indie games (we all heard about the fez incident and some indies winning due to relationships between people) and spreading false accusations about gamers to possible new developers.