Gamergate - OP updated 27 October

[KrazyK923]

Full circle back to Zoe Quinn now? I thought it changed to being about "ethics in video games journalism."

Interesting.

I see you've done continued to do the exact same thing you've always done:

Ignore literally everything everyone is saying, including the context, and barfing out a useless point.

[unholytestament]

We'll see how many of the game journalists that wrote puff pieces about Crash Override Network come to their defense or just quietly pretend it never happened.

[hrugner]

Yes this is an issue- how do we know that it is legit?

The comments about speaking to people in governmental departments, trying to push there agenda on that level is rather scary. To "stop the harassers".

Looks like one of the other people(Harper) tweeted verification in an attempt to pass doxing and harassment off as something else. That's two folks involved, one of which is unrepentant and a little nuts, and the other shook himself loose and walked away.

[tehealadin]

We'll see how many of the game journalists that wrote puff pieces about Crash Override Network come to their defense or just quietly pretend it never happened

Yes, this will be interesting. I don't imagine that many will have the honest/courage to admit that maybe they had it wrong.

Full circle back to Zoe Quinn now? I thought it changed to being about "ethics in video games journalism."

Interesting.

Awesome contribution there mate.

EDIT

You repeatedly state (even in other threads) that GG is about harassing/shaming women. Because ZQ is brought up in these CON leaks, you ignore the behavior of those involved, and jump straight to her involvement, implying that in criticising these leaks, and by extension her, that this must have been the prime motivator all along. This is being willfully dishonest.

At the start, her sex life was brought up. Her boyfriend seemed to be motivated more by being jilted than anything else. Aside from people like you who always want to keep bringing that up, how often in the past almost 2 years have you seen GGers talking about her sex life? Go back and look at this thread- people who tried to make an issue of it (and I won't deny that some people did) got shut down by other GGers on the grounds that it is no one elses business who she sleeps with. A fact that you conveniently neglect to mention. People didn't stop talking about her sex life because of anti GGers, GGers shut down that topic of conversation.

The attack of "I thought this was about ethics in journalism" is such a poor argument. You use it to try and deflect valid criticism. These people were acting in a shitty, hypocritical manner. Now the way that they act isn't explicitly related to ethics in journalism, you use this defense as if they can only be criticised if it is explicitly on journalistic ethics grounds. If their shitty behaviour is called out, and it isn't completely related to journalism, you bring out this argument as if people have no business talking about it, and that in doing so, ethics must not have been a concern, and then imply that it must be about hating on a woman because she is a woman. The dishonesty in this is horrific. It simply isn't a logical argument.

Ethics in journalism isn't the only reason behind GG. There are two, related reasons behind it. Ethics in journalism is one aspect, the other is the encroachment of the regressive left and their ideology onto the world of video games, in particular the indy scene. These two are related in that journalists will behave in dishonest ways, willfully refusing to give balance to any story on the issue in order to promote one side (the one that aligns with their ideology), this is corrupt journalism. Unethical journalism doesn't simply have to relate to developers buying off journalists for better coverage. You are using a purposefully narrow definition of journalistic ethics. If we draw the two out in a venn diagram, there is overlap.

The left wing media portray this as GG=hate women/anyone who isn't white or heterosexual/cis gendered, and is all about harassment. Anti GG=people who are against harassment and want equality. This is overwhelmingly the case. It misrepresents GG. Are there some who are just angry bigots? Yes, yes there are, we can't deny that, we have seen some here. How many are genuine GG supporters, and how many are just trolls looking to troll, with no dog in the fight? I cannot say, but I won't say all. Do they represent all of GG? I don't think so, they constantly get shut down, especially by more prominent GGers. Look in this thread, shitty behaviour done on the GG side is called out and criticised on here, by GGers.

As for the anti side, we can see that this clearly isn't the case- this side is more organised, with far more visible leaders than GG. This is an important point to make- GG has no real leadership structure, whilst there are prominent figures, it is disjointed with different splinter groups, not all on the same wave length, and some are genuinely nasty. However the same can't quite be said about the anti side. They have very clear leaders, and something resembling a leadership structure.

We have clear cut evidence that these people (prominent leaders) are willing to engage in harassment, doxxing, and behaviours that they decry in GG. We have clear cut evidence of massive dishonesty among the top tiers of anti GG, including collusion with the press to push a particular narrative. Of which, ZQ is one. She has engaged in dishonest behaviour. And no, her sex life doesn't fall into that, that is her business. The only ones trying to bring it back to her sex life are people like you, to deflect from all of the valid criticisms to be made of her.

You decry the harassing nature of GG, then when your side is caught doing it (organised, with prominent leader figures implicated), you say nothing about it. This confirms what many on the GG side believe- that you (anti GG) are fine with harassment, so long as it is against the right target. You never outright say it in public, but your actions betray the hypocrisy. Media publications who are ideologically invested also refuse to acknowledge this hypocritical behaviour. They (the regressive left) act almost like a cult, and you wonder why people don't want them dominating the agenda for games development?

And we all know what the responses to this will be. No mention of their behaviour. GG must be misogynist, racist homophobes. "But hey, you call us harassers, yet you are trying to orchestrate harassment campaigns, whilst at the same time speaking to the UN about how harassment is bad? Isn't this hypocritical?", this will be deflected with "WOMAN HATER!!! YOU MENTIONED ZQ!!". It has become so laughably predictable. The party line- whenever anyone references the shitty behaviour of ZQ, we say it is about her sex life, even if no one actually mentions it, and then we can dismiss it as misogyny, and won't have to address the shitty behaviour. If the shitty behaviour isn't 100% a journalistic ethics issue, then we say "I thought this was about ethics in journalism", implying ulterior motives that are bigoted in nature, and not addressing the shitty behaviour.

And this is why we don't want people like you trying to set the agenda and tell artists what they can and cannot do.

[Deleted]

Full circle back to Zoe Quinn now? I thought it changed to being about "ethics in video games journalism."

Interesting.

Zoe Quinn is being unethical. In video games.

Its a shocker I know, as a woman she should be immune from criticism, but alas, this is the real world, where what you have between your legs means fuck all, as it should.

[Elim Garak]

Zoe Quinn is being unethical. In video games.

Its a shocker I know, as a woman

Whoa there. Clearly you meant as a person, right?

[Deleted]

Whoa there. Clearly you meant as a person, right?

Did you just assume her species?

[Elim Garak]

Did you just assume her species?

Are you implying that there are species who are not persons?

[Strangebrew]

Zoe Quinn is being unethical. In video games.

Its a shocker I know, as a woman she should be immune from criticism, but alas, this is the real world, where what you have between your legs means fuck all, as it should.

Not only that but she is responsible for harassing and doxing people, how dare we point that out when video game journalism have been putting her on a pedestal all year long.

No, she's even as much as in charge of groups dedicated to harassing and doxing people, a ton of people losing their job can be traced back to her and CON now thanks to these chat logs.



On another topic, remember how site's refused that Dina had any influence on MN9 whatsoever?
Well the chat logs proves that she is responsible for 3 changes atleast, whining about japanese sexism and getting those changes done for socjus cookie points.

[Deleted]

Are you implying that there are species who are not persons?

Are you implying that other species can only be persons?

[Elim Garak]

Are you implying that other species can only be persons?

Do you deny personality in Attack Helicopters or something?

[tehealadin]

This is another reason why the UK police decision to up their efforts to combat abuse worries me. Now, these people have no direct influence over what the UK police do. However they do have sway with left wing media. I think it is fair to say that some of the people associated with CON are at the heart of a great deal of the attention that online abuse gets, and with their media connections managed to get it in the media, not just in the US, but in the UK. They have some power to influence debate. The extent of this power is up for debate. When I see articles in the Guardian, some of them written by Zoe Quinn, Brianna Wu, Leigh Alexander et al, I feel safe in assuming that these people have some influence on the way that the Guardian, and publications like it handle these stories. When I see MP's who champion the fight against online abuse who are ideologically aligned with these people (not simply on the abuse issue), what you may call regressive leftists, and push this agenda (also writing in the Guardian and places such like), I get worried.

This is why the issue of consistency by the police is a major worry. We know that some of the major players at the heart of this issue indulge in the behaviours they claim to be against. We know that major left wing (even centrist) news outlets only print their side of the story, and refuse to acknowledge the hypocrisy of these people (or try to deflect it), always painting them as victims. We know that these publications have some degree of influence. How much of the police's decision stems from these hypocrites? Will they be consistent in their application of the law? The law is supposed to apply to all. However the nature of offensive and obscene speech can be subjective. And we know that these people, and their allies (including journalists at major publications, such as Guardian journalists) only concern themselves with "abuse" that is aimed towards those in the same ideological grouping (I "" abuse because whilst there is genuine abuse aimed at these people that goes way over the top, valid criticism is also lumped in with it, the likes of Thunderf00t and MindaneMatt, whilst critical, are not abusive, and we know how they use shaming tactics to try and deflect criticism and attention away from their own misdeeds), I worry about who will be influencing the police's decisions over what constitutes abusive/offensive/obscene messages.

The arrest of Bahar Mustafa was welcome from a consistency point of view (though I disagreed with it because I disagree with hate speech laws, even speech that I hate), and a possible warning to these people that in trying to create a judicial weapon to beat people with, they risk becoming victims of a beating themselves, their sheer arrogance, coupled with a complicit media make me worry that this will be one sided. I worry that a lot of this is coming from a group of hypocritical zealots, almost cult like in their nature, which spoils and salts the earth around any reasoned discussion to be had about online abuse, and this puts doubt in my mind as to the objectivity of the application of the law with regards to this issue.

[AsariCommando]

Two year anniversary, get!

[Strangebrew]

Because uh, think about virtual women's rights and stuff

archive.is/NsiS1
archive.is/LWFxf
https://www.engadget.com/2016/08/29/...source=Twitter

Guess i'll have to get the vr now.

[unholytestament]

To say nothing of any of the games that let you kill people...

[Misjudged Maaanwell]

Because uh, think about virtual women's rights and stuff

archive.is/NsiS1
archive.is/LWFxf
https://www.engadget.com/2016/08/29/...source=Twitter

Guess i'll have to get the vr now.

You won't get my support on this one. This ones just creepy

[Strangebrew]

You won't get my support on this one. This ones just creepy

Creepy? How? they are not real.
Or is it because it's japanese?

I've seen worse on western television and in western porn, so i don't really get that, look at GoT glorifying rape and violence all the time, yet it's one of the most popular show's on tv, it's idiotic(I dont have anything against GoT, i just have something against people who go on a crusade against games like DoAX3 while jerking it off to show's like GoT the very next day(
I'm getting more and more convinced that people who bitch about this is incapable of discerning reality from fantasy.

But whatever, i don't mind that someone find it creepy or don't like it, i don't get it but fine.
However i do have issues when we start seeing people advocate for censoring and banning it from west, which have been an issue with DoAX3 since it was first announced, you can even tell the authors of those articles are on the border to advocating for banning it.

There is only one way this makes us feel.

Way back when the first Xbox edition of the game was released, this cringeworthy advert appeared to endorse creepy men buying the game purely to enjoy the fake women depicted in it.

Oh, the humanity.

It's so blatantly obvious.
This is the exact reason why Idea Factory don't want to release games in the west anymore, and why DoAX3 isn't being released here despite it breaking sale records for some shops, like play-asia.

Now i'm sure some random idiot/feminist will quickly show up and proclaim they are just criticizing games, and not advocating for banning it, while clearly not understanding the atmosphere they create along with these journalist's who makes japanese developer not bother with the west due to getting dogpiled by said assholes.
It's becoming a bigger and bigger issue, i fully understand some japanese publishers and developer wanting to drop the west entirely, and i know exactly who to blame.

[unholytestament]

look at GoT glorifying rape and violence all the time

I'm pretty sure rape is still considered a very bad thing on that show.

[erthwjim]

I'm pretty sure rape is still considered a very bad thing on that show.

I guess the better question then, why aren't they all writing about it?

[Deleted]

"Gamergate is an ineffectual, small, group of whining pissbabies who accomplished nothing."

"Gamergate killed Gawker."

Snrk.

Nobody cares about the fame, and nobody caress about the how.

Gawker is dead.

*sips* - victory tastes good.