Arcane Orb should be baseline

[dreaderus]

There is something missing and if shatter mechanic is gone, multidot are gone (NT) should we not get arcane orb as baseline?

This seems perfect to insert into arcane!

[Polarthief]

So what does Frost get in losing multidot and deep freeze (which was pretty much all of its Shatter)? What about Fire which kinda required it for setting up ridiculous Combustions?

I don't quite understand what the problem is with taking AO over PC. It's a good talent, so just take it (especially if you're referring to PvP since you mentioned Shatter which doesn't happen in PvE. I mean, what the fuck else would you take?)

[dreaderus]

So what does Frost get in losing multidot and deep freeze (which was pretty much all of its Shatter)? What about Fire which kinda required it for setting up ridiculous Combustions?

I don't quite understand what the problem is with taking AO over PC. It's a good talent, so just take it (especially if you're referring to PvP since you mentioned Shatter which doesn't happen in PvE. I mean, what the fuck else would you take?)

i think everyone's losing the multi dot though.

is PC useless in PVP?

[Polarthief]

i think everyone's losing the multi dot though.

is PC useless in PVP?

Yes they are, and PC won't be used for power because everyone will avoid it. It's more used how Ring of "lololol, avoid me or you'll be sorry :3" is. Fire also still loses Shatter as well, so what does it get? Why should only Arcane get a new, untalented, toy? Hell, Frost's the one that suffers the most here because now both BF and FoF procs from Frostbolt, so they have to rely on their instants and don't even have DF anymore.

My point is, you'll always have AO in PvP anyways. PC can't move so it's pretty bleh.

[mrgreenthump]

My point is, you'll always have AO in PvP anyways. PC can't move so it's pretty bleh.

PC can create pressure though, which forces people to disengage.. Or to stack up to split the damage. Not that it's not fairly situational, just trying to say: In PvP you can't look things from 1 side and call it useless. Generally would pick AO though unless people fear PC enough to react to it in a positive way.

[Polarthief]

PC can create pressure though, which forces people to disengage.. Or to stack up to split the damage. Not that it's not fairly situational, just trying to say: In PvP you can't look things from 1 side and call it useless. Generally would pick AO though unless people fear PC enough to react to it in a positive way.

I didn't call it useless, I said it's "pretty bleh". Yes, it can be used to disengage (which is what I was referring to with Ring of lololol), but people need to keep in mind that unless you really get to burst into it uninterrupted, there's not much you can do. If you don't have charges, what is your biggest threat level on a PC? An uncharged ABarr and 2 Supernovas? That'll really show them.

AO meanwhile can be used 4x the amount of time PC can and can definitely create pressure when a 0 charge Arcane Mage immediately hits 2-4 charges, especially with the 4P PvP bonus gving mobile AM/AB when AP is up, which also doesn't increase with Overpowered (the ONE good thing to look forward to with that garbage talent and it doesn't even work [curious if the glyph doubles the duration of the PvP bonus though; I'll be sure to look into that]). You won't get that level of synergy and power with PC.

The only situation where I would see good, heavy, use of PC is if your ally is being chased, you drop PC, he dances around it, and the melee on him doesn't peel off, so he stays in the PC range and you get to burst it down like nuts, also dropping Supernovas on it (which will result in 360% of secondary SN damage), as well as already having 4 charges, throwing an ABarr into it and the enemy, using an AO, and another Barrage. That will cause some serious damage. But, I don't see that being too often without being silenced/interrupted, CC'd in some way, or you're the one being chased in the first place (Arcane Mages are typically immediate threats).

[mrgreenthump]

Anyways.. should probably jump back to OT, as arcane is unlikely to be any bit more effective in PvP than it currently is.

[Polarthief]

Anyways.. should probably jump back to OT, as arcane is unlikely to be any bit more effective in PvP than it currently is.

It's actually slightly better, especially with AO's incarnation and the 4P, but you won't see it in actual competitive, high skill, PvP anytime soon. Even worse, Frost and Fire also got knocked down, so it's unlikely we'll be represented at all in high-skill PvP.

But yeah, OT: I don't see why AO should be given baseline if CS and Meteor aren't too.

[dreaderus]

well your assuming that fire/frost don't have more stuff to begin with. It just seems that arcane is missing something, maybe I am wrong.

Why does frost get frost orb?

[Polarthief]

well your assuming that fire/frost don't have more stuff to begin with. It just seems that arcane is missing something, maybe I am wrong.

So use Orb? Fire also has less than Arcane atm AND is severely undertuned. Arcane actually plays well (actually the best of the three), and if you pick up Orb, it really doesn't need anything else to the point where this is my first expansion where I'm actually looking forward to playing as Arcane and not having it forced on me.

Why does frost get frost orb?

Because they've had it since Cataclysm and it continued in MoP. It's part of their known toolkit at this point.

[Elegiac]

So what does Frost get in losing multidot and deep freeze (which was pretty much all of its Shatter)? What about Fire which kinda required it for setting up ridiculous Combustions?

I don't quite understand what the problem is with taking AO over PC. It's a good talent, so just take it (especially if you're referring to PvP since you mentioned Shatter which doesn't happen in PvE. I mean, what the fuck else would you take?)

The functionality it provides to the spec is too essential for it to be 'optional', especially considering how bland Arcane's native rotation is.

[Polarthief]

The functionality it provides to the spec is too essential for it to be 'optional', especially considering how bland Arcane's native rotation is.

And I agree with that, but then they need to come up with a new talent as well, and it's a little too late to expect any form of "new" at this last stage in the beta (tuning). In addition, Fire is incredibly bland even WITH all the talents and Frost is too cluttered.

[gunner_recall]

I miss flame orb. I don't see why frost should be the only one with balls.


I, for one, support mages getting their balls back.

[Polarthief]

I miss flame orb. I don't see why frost should be the only one with balls.


I, for one, support mages getting their balls back.

Alright, sure. what would the new Arcane L100 talent be though?

[Elegiac]

Alright, sure. what would the new Arcane L100 talent be though?

A 30 sec cooldown ability that grants 2 AM stacks.

[dreaderus]

I enjoy the multi-dot of nether tempest. shame its being turfed and now we have to choose between arcane orb and the new NT.

[Imnick]

A 30 sec cooldown ability that grants 2 AM stacks.

So like, what Arcane Orb is already for but without dealing damage?

[Polarthief]

A 30 sec cooldown ability that grants 2 AM stacks.

Compared to PC, that's pretty weak.

So like, what Arcane Orb is already for but without dealing damage?

Can AO actually give more than one proc of AM? I haven't tested that.

If it can, can AE and ABarr cleave do the same?

Edit: Unless you meant that AO gives ~1 proc every 15s when you throw it; that would make more sense, lol.

[GMZohar1]

AO does not give Arcane Missle Charges.. It give Arcane Charges, granted it still has a chance to give AM charges like all spells.. Also what exactly do the new pvp set bonuses do for Arcane??

[Polarthief]

AO does not give Arcane Missle Charges.. It give Arcane Charges, granted it still has a chance to give AM charges like all spells..

I know it gives charges and I know it procs AM. I was asking if it CAN proc AM more than once because it's not considered an AoE in game mechanics due to not hitting all targets simultaneously.

Also what exactly do the new pvp set bonuses do for Arcane??

2P I'm not sure because it hurts your Mastery by needing to cast Spellsteal, though it does give you AM procs when you do need to SS.
4P is just an awesomely fun ability that lets you mobile cast AM and ABl, but can be purged or spellstolen by other Mages and is NOT extended by the Overpowered talent (no idea how it interacts with the glyph).