There's a difference between a casual and someone who wants stupid faceroll lala hello kitty gameplay. A game doesn't have to be hardcore to not be so pathetically easy as WoW has become.
Keep defending this stupid gameplay. I just shake my head at all this. The casuals say games are fun and why do you care how others play? The moment the game takes on that attitude it loses integrity. It goes from PC gaming to Wii bowling. No integrity, no depth, no real thought required. Just stupid mindless fun that lasts about 30 minutes.
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Last edited by Phumbles; 2014-08-26 at 04:36 AM.
God riot please come to your senses before this dbag ruins another game.
"Everyone's favorite toy dinosaur."
People tend to make personal judgement calls on sub losses, and given the half-assed nature of Blizzards exit survey, they probably don't have the best data they could either. Some will claim that Cata started the big decline specifically because of difficult dungeons. Others will say that it's simply because the game is old. If / when WoD drops subs further, rest assured that people will say it's because of the no-fly thing.
Universally? I'd say an MMO that is generally considered easy, or at least straightforward to finish at a level your average player finds acceptable, is one that is bound to not retain players for a significant amount of time. And the key here really is 'the average player'.
This is actually one of the larger problems that this game has right now, and the relatively high number of alts that people have is a very good sign that you have a number of subscribers who thoroughly enjoy this game, but there simply isn't enough for them to do, because so much of the content is quick to consume. For your fringe type of player, the one who needs every achievement, and to beat every aspect the game has to offer, I'd say it's a different story, but that's a small minority.
Then there are retention factors that have very little to do with the sheer difficulty of the game, such as the in-game community itself and the concept of you being represented by your character, but that's a different topic.
Last edited by melodramocracy; 2014-08-26 at 04:42 AM.
"Look around you. We're all liars here, and every one of us is better than you" - PB
"I see we have visitors. Two arms!" - Mar'tak
Am I reading you correctly?
Explain to me why organized raiding doesn't deserve to die off. Explain to me why something that can suck up all the best rewards in the game AND most of the endgame content budget and STILL never get more than a small minority of players to do it deserves to exist. Explain to me why entertaining that particular minority is supposed to be so all-consumingly important.
And lol at gear/mounts/titles. Like those matter anymore. Why do I need gear? So I can do the raids I've already done or so I can replace every piece next content patch?
Last edited by Phumbles; 2014-08-26 at 04:46 AM.
Last edited by Jamyz; 2014-08-26 at 04:54 AM.
Oh and that huge difficulty bump at the beginning of Cata? The one that DID come at the exact same subscriptions dropped, and caused gigantic amounts of drama? Of course that had NOTHING to do with anything, because players love difficulty. Rather, subscriptions started dropping because everyone really hated those Wrath changes from a year ago. Or maybe they dropped because of LFR, even though LFR wouldn't come out until a year after the decline had already begun?
What a joke. How do you people type garbage like this and then act surprised that Blizzard can't see your infinite wisdom?
You talk like a businessman that isn't actually involved in the game.
If your points weren't based on your own assumptions you might begin to have an argument. I mean really, subs are hardly an argument for either side. People leave for all different reasons at all different times. They might have gone down the way they did no matter what gameplay was like. What we can do is look at how the game played at different times.
I mean, if you think this faceroll gameplay is anything other than Blizzard trying to grab as many short term subs as possible in order to milk WoW then I'm sorry you can't see it.
Last edited by Phumbles; 2014-08-26 at 05:07 AM.
So you love "progression" but hate upgrading gear as you defeat a series of increasingly demanding raids over the course of an expansion. Uh huh. By the way, have I ever mentioned how much I love pancakes but hate flapjacks? It sounds like you just don't like WoW anymore if you think having to upgrade gear with every patch is a pain.And lol at gear/mounts/titles. Like those matter anymore. Why do I need gear? So I can do the raids I've already done or so I can replace every piece next content patch?
No matter how you look at it, any evidence we have is just purely anecdotal. Only Blizzard has access to the exit questionnaire data and can speculate as to why people are quitting. But I bet some of the changes since TBC have been based on that data.
Hint: This is called "losing an argument".
Really fucks up the typical hardcore dipshit narrative when one points out that subs dropped long before anyone heard of LFR, long after the casualization of Wrath, but at the exact same time as a controversial difficulty spike.
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Jesus Christ, is this hard to understand?
Last edited by Zagnut; 2014-08-26 at 05:15 AM.
Btw, I'm technically casual. Which is why trying to argue for/against casual/hardcore is flawed. You don't know what either side wants. I don't play a lot anymore but it doesn't mean I want instant gratification from faceroll content on rails. Raiding is a tiny tiny part of all this.
Sorry, but this argument is impossible to lose.
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Last edited by Phumbles; 2014-08-26 at 05:19 AM.
But hey, you started the sentence with "I mean really" so... that totally changes everything? I guess? I wonder what would have happened if you'd started the sentence with "dude but like" or "oh yeah well" instead.
Great comeback bro, I guess people DON'T upgrade their gear to beat the harder raids they know are coming. You sure told me.Jesus, I don't think you know how this game works.
You're really really bad at this.
Why don't you talk about the actual casualization of the game not just raiding?
Last edited by Phumbles; 2014-08-26 at 05:38 AM.
The problem with this is that old content is considered irrelevant once new content is introduced. And as returning players it pisses them off to no end cause they can't enjoy it unless you go into LFR. This wasn't a problem in vanilla WoW, as new or returning players would have no problems experiencing MC, AQ40, and BWL. That's because gear in those older dungeons never became irrelevant. That's because of two reasons. One being the presence of resistance stats in all gear. This made it harder for new gear to flat out destroy older gear. So raiders doing AQ40 wouldn't have a problem going back and visiting MC or BWL. Secondly the resist stats were needed to progress, and usually you had to go one or two dungeons back to farm the gear.This is actually one of the larger problems that this game has right now, and the relatively high number of alts that people have is a very good sign that you have a number of subscribers who thoroughly enjoy this game, but there simply isn't enough for them to do, because so much of the content is quick to consume. For your fringe type of player, the one who needs every achievement, and to beat every aspect the game has to offer, I'd say it's a different story, but that's a small minority.
You can see developers trying to return to this by introducing Minor stats. Survival stats that take up stats but don't add any damage or healing output. Though the devs may have wanted to use these stats as a way to get players to farm for more gear than to slow down the rate at which players power increases with their characters.
The toxicity of the community is purely due to anonymity. Since raiding with friends or a guild isn't required, so too is manners. Remember, Blizzard tried to fix this by showing your real name to players in game, and that wasn't very popular. Things like LFR, LFG, and CRZ are a major cause of these problems. Take them away and suddenly a players reputation matters in the game.Then there are retention factors that have very little to do with the sheer difficulty of the game, such as the in-game community itself and the concept of you being represented by your character, but that's a different topic.
Last edited by Dukenukemx; 2014-08-26 at 05:38 AM.