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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Gael View Post
    Not an option. These folks aren't just my raid team, they're my friends, even if they derp pretty hard sometimes.
    Then you are screwed, sorry to put it this harshly.
    ALL the problems you describe stem from the simple fact, that the people in your raid struggle with grasping very basic concepts of positioning and movement. The only solution is, to become better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vedni View Post
    It's also possible to force Thok to chase someone. If you are within a certain range of Thok and there is at least one person outside of a certain range of Thok, it guarantees you won't get fixated.
    1st of all, as someone already explained, Thok choses among the THREE furthest non-tank targets in the raid. If you stack on him, and one guy stands ready to run, you have a 66% chance that he will munch up 9 people .D

    Secondly, even if you get 3 people to run away, and stack the rest, Thoks movement during and shortly after he fixates is not 100% predictable. He sometimes turns for a split-second, or faces somewhere else, more than enough time to eat someone out of position. The ONLY safe way to do it, is to get the hell away from him while he still decides who might be the most delicious.
    -== Worgen Rageface makes me laugh ==-

  2. #22
    Thok targets among the four people who are farthest away from him (as long as they aren't super far away), so you can assign a few people to always try to pick up the fixate.

  3. #23
    It sounds like your big problem is you're overcomplicating the fight. Let go. It's normal mode, 10-man even. So simplify, simplify, simplify. It's amazing how much people can improve when they're not trying to keep track of 20 things at once, just the 3 important things. You don't need the complicated heroic-mode strats, and you don't have the players to execute them anyway. So simplify as much as you can, and watch your performance rise.

    For 10N Thok, there's no reason for an elaborate kiting plan. Just yoyo him up and down the hall. Everyone stays to the sides of the room and you're done. The tank grabs the jailer and pulls him to whichever door you want to open, and melee stay with the tank. For progression ranged may need to DPS Thok a bit during the kite, but they don't chase him - just work on the jailer when he starts getting out of range.

    Stacking is easy - just make a simple rule. Ours is "stack on the leg closest to the center of the room", which also works as, "stack in the green mushroom circle". Everyone knows the rule, it never changes, and so we always get a quick, easy stack with no need to talk about it.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennoyer View Post
    Thok targets among the four people who are farthest away from him (as long as they aren't super far away), so you can assign a few people to always try to pick up the fixate.
    Please please please please do NOT do that.

    YES, it CAN work. However, as I pointed out above, Thok doesn't always move as he should when fixating on a new target. Its only a split second when he looks another way or does a quick turn, but if you stack on him, this unpredictable behavior can wipe you.
    -== Worgen Rageface makes me laugh ==-

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorzzara View Post
    Please please please please do NOT do that.

    YES, it CAN work. However, as I pointed out above, Thok doesn't always move as he should when fixating on a new target. Its only a split second when he looks another way or does a quick turn, but if you stack on him, this unpredictable behavior can wipe you.
    I didn't say stack on him, I said to select a few people to always be farthest away from him (within 60 or 80 yards, whatever the number is). This is in light of the OP's post about people and raid awareness. Take your best few people and have them favor the side of the jailor mob away from Thok.

  6. #26
    Mechagnome Littlepinch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennoyer View Post
    I didn't say stack on him, I said to select a few people to always be farthest away from him (within 60 or 80 yards, whatever the number is). This is in light of the OP's post about people and raid awareness. Take your best few people and have them favor the side of the jailor mob away from Thok.
    It works best if EVERYONE acts as if they WILL get picked. doesn't take much for the entire group to move away from thok and break off to the next stack point after he picks someone. it isn't hard. The only time i really see people mess this up, is when they assume they will not get picked and just pew pew the boss and be out of position when it does pick them.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Back when we were still raiding, we came up with a new tactic for Thok: At 98 stacks he simply dropped dead, and we never entered phase 2....
    We aimed for 100 stacks, but it was impossible to maintain so low dps...
    He instantly kills the raid at 30 stacks on Heroic.


    Ippon - <Vindicatum> - Icecrown - US

  8. #28
    Herald of the Titans FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PessimiStick View Post
    He instantly kills the raid at 30 stacks on Heroic.
    But OP asks for help with Normal...

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    But OP asks for help with Normal...
    You're.... you're right... It never even occurred to me that people would be able to fail at Normal long enough to need a help post...


    Ippon - <Vindicatum> - Icecrown - US

  10. #30
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    A bunch of PuGs off of OQ can easily do Thok... I don't see why it would be much of a problem for an organized guild. Have melee stack with the tank on the jailer. Have ranged just generally NOT be around Thok. Then have the first person that gets sighted take off down the hallway that you enter his room from. The second person that gets sighted should run towards the back of the room, towards thok's cage. And then generally alternate between running down the hallway and running towards the back of the room. That's worked in every PuG I've ever done.

    And sure, it's always bad when someone aims thok through the group, but you know what? The people that get eaten shouldn't have been standing in front of a giant charging T rex anyway, even if it "wasn't supposed to be dragged through them." Unless they're sitting right on Thok's ass DPSing, which they shouldn't be, there's very little reason for anyone to not be able to just run out of his way. He gives plenty of notice when he's about to change targets. People in his general vicinity, which there honestly shouldn't be very many of, just turn tail and just run away from him and stay out of the line of the person he's charging.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2014-09-05 at 07:35 PM.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by PessimiStick View Post
    You're.... you're right... It never even occurred to me that people would be able to fail at Normal long enough to need a help post...
    Guess its better to fail at raiding than reading though huh? Different people have different strengths and weaknesses.

  12. #32
    After my first go with him I have learned to properly run and if actually chosen where to lead him. Though since I am stuck in LFR for now due to work scheduling there are always a couple deaths that make you groan.

    Best one I have ever seen was someone who on their PW:S had it macro'd to say "HAH! BUBBLE TIME!" as he cast it(he was fix'd). Right after that in the chat log was the death announcement from someone. I was cracking up from across the room.

  13. #33
    It sounds like your raid members just panic, and so there's not many tactic changes you can do or things to call out to members being fixated that will fix it.

    With these kind of mechanics that target a specific player what I like to do is mentally prepare myself by assuming I will be picked. So a few seconds before he fixates a new player I assume I will be picked and plan on what I will do. I think it works 10 times better than when I would just wait and see who got picked, and if it was me then handle it on the spot.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Khorm View Post
    You seem like a reasonable player so here's my advice.

    Gquit.
    App to a better guild.
    Yeah, everyone loves a quitter. Great advice.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gael View Post
    Not an option. These folks aren't just my raid team, they're my friends, even if they derp pretty hard sometimes.
    As the leader of guild which started in exactly this manner and is now 14/14H, I'd like to congratulate you for having the right priorities and tell you to ignore the elitist advice you're likely to receive here. I swear 90% of the people on this forum don't even know what a "friend" is (they seem to think it has something to do with skill).

    Thok's fixate is a personal responsibility mechanic, and aside from people with serious cognitive or physical disabilities, anyone can handle it correctly. You just need to make sure you're using a viable strategy and then let your raid know it's their responsibility to execute that strategy. In this case, everyone needs to be thinking about their next move before it happens. Not kicking the "bad" players from your raid may be frustrating, at times, but this raiding model can work with some patience and practice.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Guess its better to fail at raiding than reading though huh? Different people have different strengths and weaknesses.
    I LOLed.+1 Interwebz 2 u, sir!

  15. #35
    Few pieces of advice based on what my guild did. Nothing revolutionary here by any stretch. We're very casual (one scheduled raid day per week for three hours) but we did clear normal back in early April, which I'm happy with.

    1. Be aware before the fixate. I would always call to spread out on the phase switch, at which point everybody spreads out (duh) toward the outer walls. First kite goes back to the door we came in through. Next kite goes to the opposite side of the room, then the door, back, on and on. The kite always goes directly down the middle; the group is always on the edge by the jailer we're killing.

    2. Call a little bit BEFORE the fixate switches; 2 seconds or so should be plenty for anybody who might be close to Thok to back the heck away so that they have time to react if they're picked. Our calls are usually something like "new target, spread out -- so-and-so he's on you." Along those lines, our ranged followed Thok a bit and our melee took care of the jailer.

    3. This one is a big thing for me: Yes, running a mechanic through the raid is a ridiculously stupid move, whether that's Thok or Garrosh puddles or whatever. The thing I always emphasized though is that it's equally stupid to get hit by it. Everybody needs to be raid-aware. One guy being a derp should kill one guy. One guy derping multiple raid members should not happen; it's a raid-wide failure.

    4. Our tanks did a great job of facing Thok the same way each attempt. On the rare occasion that they couldn't, they would call out which way he would be facing. We'd always stack on the same foot (front toward the inside of the room). Between those two bits of information we'd always know roughly where we needed to get to before we needed to get there. Also, keeping things as similar as possible between attempts allows people to focus on mastering the mechanics because they don't have to focus as much on reacting to the differences.
    Last edited by Xar226; 2014-09-09 at 05:51 AM.

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