What would you like to see in the upcoming expansion

[Stormcall]

New story arcs. The Makeb story line was no bigger than the other planet arcs. I'd like to see something along the lines of the Act arcs for the class story lines.

Bioware has pretty much confirmed there will never be an expansion to class story lines, cause it requires too much voice acting. From here on out we're getting Makeb type stuff, where all the voice acting is one batch that is the same for all 8 classes.

[notorious98]

I know they just released housing, but I'm a little surprised that there was no teaser for the new expansion at PAX Prime. Even if it was just a teaser trailer.

As far as what I'd like to see, good story telling. Makeb was pretty short and definitely not worth the $20 to non-subscribers. But the story was pretty good. With the Dread Masters gone, there's going to need to be a new villain taking over the spotlight. Maybe Malgus comes back? I mean, we never actually saw him killed. It'll tie in nicely to how they're resurrecting the Emperor in episode 7. But they need to make this new threat be a pretty big badass, which means they'll have to create a story worthy of that. Other than that, just better optimization on the system, if possible. Pazaak. If possible, more free flight capabilities. Really just expand on the systems already in place.

I'd also like them to offer this one for CC. The double dipping on subscribers shouldn't happen.

[Vankrys]

i suppose you have to include all the raid that came after makheb in this $20 since you need to be 55 to participate in

[notorious98]

i suppose you have to include all the raid that came after makheb in this $20 since you need to be 55 to participate in

That raid content could have existed without Makeb. I, and many others, made this point when they were announcing RotHC. Raising the level cap seemed arbitrary and unnecessary.

[Vankrys]

That raid content could have existed without Makeb. I, and many others, made this point when they were announcing RotHC. Raising the level cap seemed arbitrary and unnecessary.

debatable.

it's like all the tier that came with an expansion in wow. Although they are release sequentially, over the course of 2 years, they kinda still belong to the expansion since you need the expansion to unlock them. for instance, a lot of people (like everyone) consider ICC as a wrath of the lich king expansion raid.

So Rise of the Hutt Cartel was shipped with darvanis raid, but the raid that came after, dread fortress and palace, well all the max level content really, is included in that original price.

[Hellravager]

An expansion ten times larger than the first one.
Ten new planets, graphics improvements, loadscreen reductions, extended class storylines, real swoop racing and competitions, pazzak, real space, challenging pve arena like the one in Kotor.

Add most of that and i might even consider resubbing.

Yea i agree would love more planets and stuff to do

[notorious98]

debatable.

it's like all the tier that came with an expansion in wow. Although they are release sequentially, over the course of 2 years, they kinda still belong to the expansion since you need the expansion to unlock them. for instance, a lot of people (like everyone) consider ICC as a wrath of the lich king expansion raid.

So Rise of the Hutt Cartel was shipped with darvanis raid, but the raid that came after, dread fortress and palace, well all the max level content really, is included in that original price.

Yeah, I get it. But your response has little to do with what I said.

Also, all of that other raiding content isn't part of the box price. WoW charges a subscription fee throughout the life of their expansion. If you want to be comparable, they're actually charging people, roughly, $350 for all those raiding tiers. The box price is the box price. While people in TOR could experience the Operations without paying a dime, SOMEBODY has to pay to continue the updates. That comes down to subscribers, whales, and occasional market purchases. The $20 was really just for the content that gets you to that level. A level that didn't really NEED to be raised.

[Vankrys]

Yeah, I get it. But your response has little to do with what I said.

Also, all of that other raiding content isn't part of the box price. WoW charges a subscription fee throughout the life of their expansion. If you want to be comparable, they're actually charging people, roughly, $350 for all those raiding tiers. The box price is the box price. While people in TOR could experience the Operations without paying a dime, SOMEBODY has to pay to continue the updates. That comes down to subscribers, whales, and occasional market purchases. The $20 was really just for the content that gets you to that level. A level that didn't really NEED to be raised.

you contradict yourself a little

yes in wow, subscription is mandatory, while in swtor, it's optional. you could experience all the content max level in swtor only for the entry price of the expansion, given you are willing to put in the time to farm credit to buy operation pass.

in a way, that make Swtor lot cheaper than wow, but doesn't change the fact that in the mind of bioware, all the content that came after the expansion is part of the expansion, they just deliver it for free, as an enticing gesture to buy the expansion possibly.

That's the way mmo works, when you buy the expansion, you buy also the promise for future free update. aside from the F2P option, this is very simalar to wow model IMO. And i'm fine with it. I paid it $10 as a subscriber and found value for my buck, but that's personal opinion i suppose.

[Crysis]

It's just pity that EA/BioWare dont believe in their game enough to make expansions worthy of anyones time and money. Like WoW does. I mean one planet with one storyline? Thats patch content, not expansion. If they tried harder they could compete with WoW, and if any franchise has the potential to catch new players, its Star Wars. Shame, unforgivable shame they are thrashing such a good brand.

[Edge-]

It's just pity that EA/BioWare dont believe in their game enough to make expansions worthy of anyones time and money. Like WoW does.

You mean a paid expansion? Why is that somehow "worthy" of players time, while a free expansion isn't? Not to mention, paid expansions chop up the playerbase, which is detrimental to a F2P games overall health.

What they're doing is actually a smarter overall strategy, releasing patches as normal (and not taking yearlong content breaks a la Blizzard) and every 8ish months releasing a bigger than average patch as an "expansion" with some kind of major new system/feature (Galactic Strongholds/Galactic Starfighter) or bigger content drop (Makeb, though that was paid, and the upcoming one is hinted to have a bigger content drop with story ect.)

Thats patch content, not expansion.

Indeed, they're very liberal with their definition of "expansion". But then again, MMO's don't really need proper expansions to expand the game and provide new content/features. CoH released only expansions in its 8 year lifetime, instead doing the majority of its content/feature additions through normal patching. Aion has never released a paid expansion (though the 2.0 expansion did receive a retail box, it did not need to be purchased as the 2.0 updated was free, it was simply a second retail push for sales), instead using free patches to expand the content and add new classes (to-date there are three new classes).

If they tried harder they could compete with WoW, and if any franchise has the potential to catch new players, its Star Wars.

Why do they need to compete with WoW? I mean, as far as SWTOR being a "contender", that ship sailed long ago. It bombed at launch and squandered any opportunity for massive growth.

But it doesn't need to compete with WoW. It's doing pretty well right now, with what appears to be a stable playerbase (a million active users per month), and a solid revenue stream ($136ish million last year). It doesn't need millions of subs or billions in revenue. WoW is not what every game should be compared to to determine success/failure.

Shame, unforgivable shame they are thrashing such a good brand.

They are thrashing it? I respect how BioWare have handled SWTOR since the F2P transition far more than how Blizzard has handled WoW in the past 4ish years. BioWare has done a ton of work to turn things around, dramatically improving the quality of the game. They've come out with a pretty reasonable content cycle (roughly every 8-9 weeks for decent sized patches) that, outside of Galactic Strongholds (which was delayed for marketing reasons, but expanded upon considerably during that period of time), they've stuck to since the transition. All with a "modest" budget. Compared to Blizzard, who despite being the most profitable MMO in the world seems to have trouble making an expansion without abandoning the live client for 14 months. And people are paying during that whole time if they want to keep playing, while SWTOR players have the option to turn off their sub for a bit if they want to play but don't want to pay if they're not getting content.

[notorious98]

you contradict yourself a little

How am I contradicting myself? If I'm doing so, at least explain in what way.

yes in wow, subscription is mandatory, while in swtor, it's optional. you could experience all the content max level in swtor only for the entry price of the expansion, given you are willing to put in the time to farm credit to buy operation pass.

Operation passes aren't free. Somebody has to buy them. Whether it's a subscriber using their monthly allotment they got for their subscription fee or it's somebody spending, approximately, $3 to buy it off the Cartel Market.

in a way, that make Swtor lot cheaper than wow, but doesn't change the fact that in the mind of bioware, all the content that came after the expansion is part of the expansion, they just deliver it for free, as an enticing gesture to buy the expansion possibly.

Except it's not free. As explained above.

That's the way mmo works, when you buy the expansion, you buy also the promise for future free update. aside from the F2P option, this is very simalar to wow model IMO. And i'm fine with it. I paid it $10 as a subscriber and found value for my buck, but that's personal opinion i suppose.

But none of the updates are free. In WoW, you continue to pay your subscription. In TOR, you either subscribe or pay for operation passes. At no point does that make any of that content free. You want free? Rift is free. All of their content is free. You don't have to pay a dime for it. WoW? TOR? LotRO? All charge you in some form or fashion. Sure, you COULD grind out CC/Turbine Points, but eventually you're going to run out of grinds and somebody is going to have to pony up money.

- - - Updated - - -

Why do they need to compete with WoW? I mean, as far as SWTOR being a "contender", that ship sailed long ago. It bombed at launch and squandered any opportunity for massive growth.

But it doesn't need to compete with WoW. It's doing pretty well right now, with what appears to be a stable playerbase (a million active users per month), and a solid revenue stream ($136ish million last year). It doesn't need millions of subs or billions in revenue. WoW is not what every game should be compared to to determine success/failure.

4th highest moneymaking MMO in 2013 is pretty good. When looking at all of the MMO money, it's easy to see that WoW is the outlier. People seem to think that WoW is the standard instead of the anomaly. The reality is that NOBODY is going to challenge WoW in subscriptions, ever.

TOR's revenue was $165M last year.

[Nazrark]

I had a security key attached to my account that I forgot about. I had accumulated over 2k Cartel coins, all for free because of the app on my phone. So in essence the game can be free completely.

I like what they are doing. As a sub I don't have to worry about how many times I can run Flashpoints or PvP for rewards. I don't have a credit cap either. But I can see as a non-sub worrying about those things. Credit cap being the main issue and having to spend it constantly in order to get the full value out of dailies and such.

[Poshadin]

I had a security key attached to my account that I forgot about. I had accumulated over 2k Cartel coins, all for free because of the app on my phone. So in essence the game can be free completely.

I like what they are doing. As a sub I don't have to worry about how many times I can run Flashpoints or PvP for rewards. I don't have a credit cap either. But I can see as a non-sub worrying about those things. Credit cap being the main issue and having to spend it constantly in order to get the full value out of dailies and such.

Which is *kinda* nice as it keeps the economy going, however I do think they need to raise the credit cap to at least 1 mil

[notorious98]

Which is *kinda* nice as it keeps the economy going, however I do think they need to raise the credit cap to at least 1 mil

That's one of those things where the economy will adjust to the rise. I think 500k seems reasonable. Extracting mods should be slightly re-tuned as well. It's a little too expensive. For me, it doesn't really bother me too much when it comes to spending the cap. Even if I go over, I find that I'm not for want and, if needed, I'll just buy escrow withdrawals off the GTN.

[Razael]

* New engine or huge optimization fixes
* New class
* A couple new playable races (Togruta, Nautolan, Kel Dor, Kaleesh , Nikto, Trandoshan or Weequay etc).
* Manaan and Rakata Prime playable planets expanding on the Flashpoint scenery and asthetics.

Thats my wishlist.

[Vankrys]

* New engine or huge optimization fixes
* New class
* A couple new playable races (Togruta, Nautolan, Kel Dor, Kaleesh , Nikto, Trandoshan or Weequay etc).
* Manaan and Rakata Prime playable planets expanding on the Flashpoint scenery and asthetics.

Thats my wishlist.

new engine not going to happen, might as well code a new game. Optimization can happen
i don't see new class happening either but it's possible.
race, planets, flashpoint, aesthetics all very likely.

[Edge-]

i don't see new class happening either but it's possible.

Sadly, I'd never really expect a new class, especially not for free. They'd have to either clone an existing storyline (which would be a mixture of awkward and lazy) or spend a huge amount of time on brand new writing, voicework, cutscenes, and quest design for what essentially amounts to 3 new stories (Empire/Republic version of the class, and then changes based on which advanced class is chosen). The return on investment in terms of player time would be negligible, as folks would quickly breeze through all the new story content and then...wonder what else there is in terms of story for the new class.

Unfortunately, BioWare really designed themselves into a lot of corners in terms of what they can/can't do with the game given both the IP they're using (even if it's no longer canon, piles upon piles of existing lore determining how classes/factions interact) and how they've chosen to develop the game (focus on class based stories while leveling etc).

[Vankrys]

branching a few existing main class is the easiest option. yes. they would only need to design the class (which is a huge work) and don't require new voice acting. I don't think it's that far fetch to have one of the 4 main class branch into 3 advanced class rather than 2.

i could see for example a more tanky smuggler/imperial agent

[Gelda82]

You mean a paid expansion? Why is that somehow "worthy" of players time, while a free expansion isn't? Not to mention, paid expansions chop up the playerbase, which is detrimental to a F2P games overall health.

Indeed, they're very liberal with their definition of "expansion". But then again, MMO's don't really need proper expansions to expand the game and provide new content/features. CoH released only expansions in its 8 year lifetime, instead doing the majority of its content/feature additions through normal patching. Aion has never released a paid expansion (though the 2.0 expansion did receive a retail box, it did not need to be purchased as the 2.0 updated was free, it was simply a second retail push for sales), instead using free patches to expand the content and add new classes (to-date there are three new classes).

City had two paid expansions, Villains and Going Rogue. They were spaced 2 and 4 years apart, but they both added an enormous amount of content, enough that nobody ever confused them for patches(live "Issues").

As a whole, the MMO community seems very reluctant to abandon the size and differences between paid expansion packs and patched content. A lot of companies are trying to blur the line for PR and customer satisfaction, but the existing customers are pretty set in their ways and don't want to be told to adopt new definitions for what they already know. It's not a futile effort, since the newer players and the next generation are always impressionable, but the grizzled veterans are never going to accept the Starfighter or Stronghold patches as equalling the Makeb content update.

[SirRobin]

As someone who still mourns what TOR could have been. You are missed Gordon Walton. There is lots of stuff I would like added or changed. However, considering there is very little chance of any of that happening? I'll go with what I feel any star wars game descended from KOTOR should have... Pazaak!