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  1. #61
    The real funny part is the actual dumbing down of the game (and the coinciding loss of subscriptions) didn't start until GC actually joined the team. Sounds like he just had the wrong job all along, based on his comments after leaving. That he's sitting there and making it sound like it wasn't his fault for the past however many years is pretty disingenuous.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Airbag888 View Post
    Do you agree though that they should be handed out epics and the gratification of having killed an expansion end boss OR rather that they should acknowledge their shortcomings, decide that either they'll only see content they can handle or move to another game without bitching at blizz about difficulty and not seeing content (which is what happened over time and made the game what it is today unfortunately)

    The kind of 'bad' you're describing makes me think they're here and contributing at pull then at some point they're just dead meatsacks enjoying the show in 1080p
    LFR is already like the special olympics these days and there are still wipes that happen there
    In the end that just happened. We managed to get by through Wrath and Cata normals but the MoP normals were to hard for our raidgroup and we disbanded the raid altogether.
    But still it was not a matter of them not trying or anything, we tried and tried and tried, they were just not able to manage the gameplay.

    So in a way yes, i think everybody should be president. Easymodes makes it possible for bad players to see the content. Bashioks comment goes in the direction that one hard mode and nothing else is enough since everybody could do it if they really want. And that is not the case in my experience. Some people just can't.

  3. #63
    GC's problem is that he often tried to justify changes to the game which were not so wise.

    A good example: The changes made to the raiding model in Cataclysm, which GC often tried to justify. Telling players that 10 = 25, when everyone knew that different raid sizes posed different challenges, was insulting to the player base. Not only were we told that 10 = 25, but loot, achievements and lockouts were shared. That was just daft. You could not even fit all of WoW's classes into a 10 man raid, let alone include all player abilities, which limited boss raid design. Blizzard and GC's were so stubborn regarding this change to raiding, which was to the detriment of the raiding scene, and game at large.

    Sadly, and I wish I could say different, but I'm pleased that at least one defender of the silly changes to raiding made in Cataclysm is no longer working for Blizzard.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I just hate the attitude of douchebags like Greg Street, who thinks elitist hard mode is the only thing that matters and screw anyone else, anyone else who isn't an elitist hardcore player is a 'grandmother'.
    Fine, but that wasnt the attitude he expressed. He said it was challenging to have to generate the additional incremental guidance features that eased players into all of the games mechanics... Creating accessibility. He didnt say the mechanics of any of these games being mentioned were harder than the others, just that it was nice to have less in-game training to factor in. Its not hard to guess why... From the production side of things it slows the pace of dev with all the manpower that must be devoted to designing, coding, doing the graphics, etc. for all that obligatory learning content. If you can write that off for the players (of any skill level) to just figure out on their own over time, it removes a big resource drain. There might even be some changes that get sidelined because the overhead cost of accessibility is just too high.

    That really has nothing to do with hating anybody. Early on in wow, there was less accessibility investment and players just had to go to 3rd party stuff (elitistjerks, wowwiki, blogs, etc.) for most of the intermediate+ info. A lot more is baked in now, and more ingame assistance is getting added all the time. So he didnt enjoy managin all that overhead... So what?

  5. #65
    The more GC talks, the more I realize that there is, within Blizzard, a culture of people who want to make the game to cater to the 1% of hardcore players, and who can really care less about the 99% that actually pays the bills. A lot of the changes in raiding in Warlords-especially the gutting of LFR, because oh those poor raiders, having to go into the cesspool of LFR to get a tiny advantage over other progression raiders-scream "the only people that matter are the ones sponsored by mouse companies." I am starting to suspect that GC himself is responsible not for making the game more accessible, but for helping to create the "all that matters is heroic raiding" culture we see all too often at Blizzard.

  6. #66
    It's so cute how WoW players think they're so hardcore when they do raid bosses on the hard modes. I'm sorry, it shouldn't take you more than an hour to kill a boss, even at launch. I've been playing video games all my life, nearly 30 years, and I have NEVER ONCE took more than an hour to learn a boss fight. WoW was the most brutal game I had ever played, since I had to wait hours, days, weeks, for other people to learn a fight.

    Your grandma should be able to beat any WoW boss, regardless of the difficulty, because they're all so simple.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaq View Post
    The more GC talks, the more I realize that there is, within Blizzard, a culture of people who want to make the game to cater to the 1% of hardcore players, and who can really care less about the 99% that actually pays the bills. A lot of the changes in raiding in Warlords-especially the gutting of LFR, because oh those poor raiders, having to go into the cesspool of LFR to get a tiny advantage over other progression raiders-scream "the only people that matter are the ones sponsored by mouse companies." I am starting to suspect that GC himself is responsible not for making the game more accessible, but for helping to create the "all that matters is heroic raiding" culture we see all too often at Blizzard.
    Why are people mad about the absolute best loot in game not being available in the absolute easiest content of the game? How on earth do you justify that?

  8. #68
    I stopped reading at the Grandma bullshit. The guy was not fired, he left a place that happily employed him and this is the garbage he spews out about them? What a spiteful ingrate.

  9. #69
    Bloodsail Admiral
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altarion View Post
    GC's problem is that he often tried to justify changes to the game which were not so wise.

    A good example: The changes made to the raiding model in Cataclysm, which GC often tried to justify. Telling players that 10 = 25, when everyone knew that different raid sizes posed different challenges, was insulting to the player base. Not only were we told that 10 = 25, but loot, achievements and lockouts were shared. That was just daft. You could not even fit all of WoW's classes into a 10 man raid, let alone include all player abilities, which limited boss raid design. Blizzard and GC's were so stubborn regarding this change to raiding, which was to the detriment of the raiding scene, and game at large.

    Sadly, and I wish I could say different, but I'm pleased that at least one defender of the silly changes to raiding made in Cataclysm is no longer working for Blizzard.
    IDK, watching 25 man raids get much better gear and that quicker was always disheartening. 10 != 25, but heroic should == heroic. Clearly Blizzard agrees with you though, so now we're stuck with 20 man Mythic. Thanks for that.

    Nobody I know has any interest in raiding heroic in WoD. It's Mythic or nothing. New video card not included.

  10. #70
    Another Wintergrasp-like area would just be amazing.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    10/10 Joke/Bait

    League is a MOBA, by the very definition of the genre it is easy. It is basically WoWs PvP with less buttons to push and it even GUIDES YOU on what gear you should pick up. LoL is, in more than one sense of the word, easier than WoW on any level.
    I mean lol doesnt even have a third dimension to control

  12. #72
    He wasn't disparaging casual play at all...he was commenting on how much more difficult it is to design for a wide audience. Accessibility is a whole 'nother dimension you have to layer on to a game that competes with everything else you are trying to do. Of course he would feel good moving to a game where accessibility is not a pressing issue, that's not even remotely controversial or shocking. It would be like, I don't know, telling an artist they didn't have to worry about shading on their next project. Hot diggity, that's a load off your back!

    Goodness freaking gracious do people go out of their way to misinterpret Ghostcrawler. I really feel awful for the guy and I don't know how he puts up with it. I guess that is why companies keep using him as a visible person, he seems to function well as a target dummy...

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    In the end that just happened. We managed to get by through Wrath and Cata normals but the MoP normals were to hard for our raidgroup and we disbanded the raid altogether.
    But still it was not a matter of them not trying or anything, we tried and tried and tried, they were just not able to manage the gameplay.

    So in a way yes, i think everybody should be president. Easymodes makes it possible for bad players to see the content. Bashioks comment goes in the direction that one hard mode and nothing else is enough since everybody could do it if they really want. And that is not the case in my experience. Some people just can't.
    Here's the thing.

    Resources are limited. Blizz will probably stick to x months of development of an expansion before moving on to the next.
    With that in mind. We're either going to get great varied content with a progression curve meaning some will never experience part of it or content that's 80% re-used (assets/art/textures/environments) with tweaks (some new spells and mostly new numbers) in 4-5 installments (1 for each difficulty level) and given the time taken to make those they'll give us some silly time sinks in between to do (dailies, farming, garrisons).

    So basically the game becomes 'repeat the same raids on various difficulty' or 1 long beautiful raid with various non raid content equally as engaging (think class epic quests of vanilla)

    People just need to recognize this is not the game for them when they've banged their head against it for long enough

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Airbag888 View Post
    Here's the thing.

    Resources are limited. Blizz will probably stick to x months of development of an expansion before moving on to the next.
    With that in mind. We're either going to get great varied content with a progression curve meaning some will never experience part of it or content that's 80% re-used (assets/art/textures/environments) with tweaks (some new spells and mostly new numbers) in 4-5 installments (1 for each difficulty level) and given the time taken to make those they'll give us some silly time sinks in between to do (dailies, farming, garrisons).

    So basically the game becomes 'repeat the same raids on various difficulty' or 1 long beautiful raid with various non raid content equally as engaging (think class epic quests of vanilla)

    People just need to recognize this is not the game for them when they've banged their head against it for long enough
    I still think it's strange that in single player games no one is starting by default on easy ('cause why would i make it more difficult than nessesary) and then complain that is was no fun since it was so easy and refuse to play the other difficulties because they are the same content.
    No you start on normal or hard, depending on your taste and ignore the easymode.
    But in multiplayer games somehow it's unreasonable to ignore LFR because it would give a small gear-powerbonus to normal. It's somehow a "we want it more difficult but we want the hard difficulty as easy as possible". I don't get it.

    And i don't think that balancing a dungeon to 4 or 5 difficulties is that much effort, in the end it's just adjustments in their database and a bit of testing.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by edw View Post
    Some people here are throwing things like "LoL is more casual then WoW" ... now, I don't play LoL, I play Dota2, but the games are similar and both of them are harder to master by far then WoW ... in wow you can get away with anything ... in LoL or Dota you make a mistake it costs your team, make another and it costs your game.

    Ghostcrawler is right about wow ... it is made for casuals, 90% of it in may optinion is made for casuals, the 10% is the heroic content that ... guess what, only a small percentage of players clear it.
    So yes wow is made that even a gandma can clear it (LFR ?) ... LoL and Dota are unforgiven, you will get stomped, you will be called a noob if you are one, if you rage and leave you will be punished ...

    So let me get it straight, you consider skill to avoid making 1 small 10pixel move that will give the opponent the ability to take an advantage on an online game that a possible lag spike will ruin it anyway? And you consider a game more skillfull if you have to coordinate with 4 other players than a game that can go up to 24 other players in demands of coordination? You also consider a game more skillful if it's about players cursing other players and accusing them for small mistakes of 10 pixels because as you all think 10 pixels show the skill or not of a player?

    There are raid fights in WoW that are so sadistic that you gonna feel despair (blackfuse heroic 25 belt, Garrosh 1st intermission 25man, Garrosh 3rd phase without monk :P ) and so on. Lei shen hc. Yes WoW has a broad range of players but what the hell, LoL and Dota2 are also played from loads of kids that play them because they are free 2 play and i doubt the kids next door can beat me in LoL or any fps game or in wow skill. So let's put everything in perspective, GC is a whore and he is sucking his client (LoL) and his clientelle that thinks they are important and more hardcore (lol) because they play intense 30 minutes of not moving 10 pixels in a wrong way.
    If you think you can master a class in wow you are dreaming, being in the top 30% of WoW is way more deep and harder to achieve than being in the top 30% of LoL where you just need games over games along just 4 more other persons that can take and withstand your curses and shit. and you theirs :P.

  16. #76
    Am I the only one who thinks its ironic he calls WoW too easy to get into when the game he develops now is considered the easiest of the Moba Genre. GC comes across as smug. Pretty much par for the course with him.

  17. #77
    nice info on the comp setup, thnx

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainArlong View Post
    It's so cute how WoW players think they're so hardcore when they do raid bosses on the hard modes. I'm sorry, it shouldn't take you more than an hour to kill a boss, even at launch. I've been playing video games all my life, nearly 30 years, and I have NEVER ONCE took more than an hour to learn a boss fight. WoW was the most brutal game I had ever played, since I had to wait hours, days, weeks, for other people to learn a fight.

    Your grandma should be able to beat any WoW boss, regardless of the difficulty, because they're all so simple.
    You sound like the guy who's absolutely convinced the reason he has no friends and has been kicked out of every guild he's ever been in is because everyone is jealous of his skill...

  19. #79
    Ghostcrawler said that chess has a RNG element to it. He is THAT absurdly stupid. Discussing his opinion is a waste of keystrokes.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Shilien View Post
    The real funny part is the actual dumbing down of the game (and the coinciding loss of subscriptions) didn't start until GC actually joined the team. Sounds like he just had the wrong job all along, based on his comments after leaving. That he's sitting there and making it sound like it wasn't his fault for the past however many years is pretty disingenuous.
    The funny thing is that he went to LoL, which is the dumbed down, your granny can play it, version of Dota. (nothing against league, i have no problems with accessible games, I just find it hilarious that GC said this when thats exactly the type of game he went to!).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Blastfizzle View Post
    Ghostcrawler said that chess has a RNG element to it. He is THAT absurdly stupid. Discussing his opinion is a waste of keystrokes.
    whut? Chess has rng? yeah I really hate it when I want to move my rook 4 squares but RNG only lets me go 3, or when my queen loses to a pawn because of rng......../facepalm

    did he really say that?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Blowmeup View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks its ironic he calls WoW too easy to get into when the game he develops now is considered the easiest of the Moba Genre. GC comes across as smug. Pretty much par for the course with him.
    no you are not. LoL is the WoW of the Moba scene, easy, simple, "dumbed down"....and massively successful because of it.

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