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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    You join early in the tier when everybody lacks gear and experience. You're trying to get into a heroic raiding guild when there is only about 5 weeks left before 6.0 pre-patch, and you don't even have full normal gear.
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  2. #22
    Mechagnome Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vsml View Post
    I understand they want experience. But how does one ever get high end experience without ever being accepted into a Guild?
    First let's set some expectations here. Matching players to guilds involve a number of factors including where you are in progression (as in gear), how well you play your spec/class (as in logs), and what the guild needs/wants in their raiding team (from # hours raiding per week to class comp, etc).

    Second, for your ilv how do you do in your logs? Are you fairly high for the gear that you have? How much raid awareness do you have and how is it shown in your logs?

    Third, how far are you willing to look for a guild? Is realm transfer an option? what about faction transfer?

    It's hard to believe that you can't find a guild that is appropriate for your level (in terms of skill, motivation and gear) if you're willing to realm transfer and/or faction transfer as well.
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  3. #23
    My 10m group often is down a person, I use this opportunity to find a pug and if they have a good attitude and perform well (for their gear level), I invite them to join us as a casual now, and offer a raid spot when 6.0 comes, and we can flex heroics.

  4. #24
    Epic!
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    Two rules :

    1) Is said guild recruiting your class?~
    Yes: Apply
    No: Ignore, and apply regardless.

    2) Don't make your application funny/too personal, just write what they want to read. Generally raiding times are the biggest factor. Exp is the biggest. If you haven't got any just write what's needed to show you understand your class.

  5. #25
    Epic! theostrichsays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vsml View Post
    Hi,

    Recently I've gotten back into PVE within the last 9 months, and have gotten myself around half Flex and Normal gear. I've taken time to apply for raiding guilds for WoD. And I'm just getting declined. I spoke to a GM through game on why he didn't accept my application as I really took time to apply for this certain guild. he said 'I took a look at your armoury and I wasn't impressed' Lol. I asked did you even take time to read the whole application and he said 'No sorry'.

    I understand they want experience. But how does one ever get high end experience without ever being accepted into a Guild?
    There have been so good tips in here.
    With that said look at some other guilds that have open applications, even if they are older apps and see what got people rejected. This was some of my old guild's common declines.
    -Incorrect gemming/reforging/enchants.
    -Bad UI screenshots (mother of God people who said they didn't know how to were generally auto rejected unless we had 1st hand experience with them) but if your whole screen was cluttered in nonsense and you had no progression, or We only saw 10 keybinds and stuff all over the place that needed to be clicked, it looked bad.
    -No logs. If you don't know how to run WoL or Warcraftlogs, read the tutorials and start logging. If you're really against it for some reason, use FRAPS. We had one guy who Fraps everything he did and put it in place, and got accepted.
    -Overreacting to goofy/troll/trigger questions on the app. Many apps have some kind of goofball question, cake or pie, tits wanker or ass, John Wayne or Clint Eastwood, and Chuck Norris or Steven Segall was our questions. If people acted like a sourpuss and answered one word answers ehh, who cared. If people had fun and elaborated then great. If someone was like #BAIGAWDMYTRIGGER!!!!! then it was auto declined. Simply because the person bringing the drama can never.... NEVER... bring enough dps to make it worth while.
    -Not doing what you can to max yourself out. In ICC there was a heroic blue trinket that was better for Ele Shamans then one of the Heroic Dungeon Purple trinkets, I can't remember their names, if a Ele Shaman applied with the wrong one... I will use Firelands as an example, before we split up. In Firelands we had a lot of guys apping who were in 353 gear, and a few 359's and not doing the Rep dailies, or trash runs and everything. We were always under the belief we could gear someone, but we don't want to gear someone who isn't actually trying his damn self.
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  6. #26
    It has been pointed out several times, that applications at the end of an expansion are difficult, if you are a newcomer.

    THIS IS COMPLETELY WRONG.

    Sorry guys, but I am going to be the one telling him. At this point in time, many many guilds appropriate for your level of experience and ambitions, need people. They lost them over the last 6 months due to boredom, and what is there to replace them on live, are for a large part loot-w**ring morons, who think they have skill because they managed to get 4 hc armor pieces in a patch that runs for 12 months.

    Plus, many guilds and raids who quit over MoP, are coming back now, and they are looking for recruits. If you don't believe me, go to WoWProgress and open any populated realm...you will be hard pressed to find a guild that is NOT looking for something.


    Quote Originally Posted by chosenkiwi View Post
    Two rules :

    1) Is said guild recruiting your class?~
    Yes: Apply
    No: Ignore, and apply regardless.
    We have several such applications every month. They are immediately rejected, without even looking at the persons log or armory.
    If someone openly demonstrates an inability to comprehend written information, I do not trust this person not to stand in the fire. Easy as that.
    Last edited by Sorzzara; 2014-09-04 at 02:43 PM.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Vsml View Post
    Hi,

    Recently I've gotten back into PVE within the last 9 months, and have gotten myself around half Flex and Normal gear. I've taken time to apply for raiding guilds for WoD. And I'm just getting declined. I spoke to a GM through game on why he didn't accept my application as I really took time to apply for this certain guild. he said 'I took a look at your armoury and I wasn't impressed' Lol. I asked did you even take time to read the whole application and he said 'No sorry'.

    I understand they want experience. But how does one ever get high end experience without ever being accepted into a Guild?
    If all he really said was "I took a look at your armory and I wasn't impressed" then you're better off not joining that retarded guild anyways. Most competent guilds actually would look though your logs and past history assuming you provided them, or even references. If your gear is the issue though, they usually would offer alt runs or a spot in as a casual until you get gear.

  8. #28
    i run through FoS/achievements if i see no heroic kills in current content, we laugh about it in guild first, then decline.

    recently had this apply from someone saying they are dedicated and put full focus into progression, they haven't cleared flex, or anything in previous current content, we're 14/14hc for 7 months now, seriously what a joker.

  9. #29
    Stood in the Fire Vampz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vsml View Post
    Hi,

    Recently I've gotten back into PVE within the last 9 months, and have gotten myself around half Flex and Normal gear. I've taken time to apply for raiding guilds for WoD. And I'm just getting declined. I spoke to a GM through game on why he didn't accept my application as I really took time to apply for this certain guild. he said 'I took a look at your armoury and I wasn't impressed' Lol. I asked did you even take time to read the whole application and he said 'No sorry'.

    I understand they want experience. But how does one ever get high end experience without ever being accepted into a Guild?

    Hello!

    Experience is a huge part of PvE, espescially in progression content - no one wants to wipe on a possible kill, nothing against you.

    However, here is what I would do personally.

    1. Put yourself out of your comfort zone.
    No, seriously. Do it, it will leave you miles ahead not just as a raider but as a person as well. Being pushed to always become better is a huge reason I still raid. Just because I've killed the boss and its over now, doesn't mean I should not judge myself.

    2. Find friends who LOVE to raid.
    I'm not talking about the guy who logs on 3 days/week, every week, just to clear. I'm talking about the guys who have 3-4 toons, clear 14/14hc in 1 night.
    You want those guys on your side, vouching goes an ENOURMOUS way in getting into a good raiding guild, and then being put onto core.

    3. Look off server, expand your roots.
    It sucks, some people have server "commitments" or some shit. There is no commitment to a server, there is only a commitment to YOUR progression.
    But, if you find one on your server - hoorah!

    4. If you do find a better opportunity, do NOT leave on a bad note.
    Don't be the guy who goes "fuck you all, i'm god cause I improve X/Y% each raid week and you all don't."
    Very few people who raid can put up with that kind of attitude - myself included (and I have a bit of an attitude!)

    5. Attitude
    Be confident, but don't disregard any information. ALL information is useful.
    Do NOT say "I give up", "I quit" "Its impossible" - that shit doesn't fly in a real raiding guild.
    Yes, some classes are better than others @ x/y/z - doesn't mean its impossible.
    If you've given up on yourself, you've given up entirely.

    6. Community
    The raiding community as a whole, being a very small part of this game (suprisingly) - people WILL remember who you are.
    So would you rather be the guy who got benched because he was playing like shit because he gave up on himself, and rather than think about his strategy while being benched - just rages like an idiot?
    Or would you rather be the guy who accepts getting benched, looks at his strategy, then crushes it when they brought him back in?

    7. Admitting mistakes
    PvE has a very LARGE amount of "you're dead" mechanics.
    It might just be you, but it could be your whole raid because of your 1 mistake.
    If you do make the mistake, let people talk and then admit it - don't make excuses, its pointless. They KNOW who did it. Just say "that was my fault, sorry team. It won't happen again."

    8. Your computer/network
    If you have 250ms - its gunna be hard to raid.
    If your computer lags like hell - you'll die lots.
    Try to have a stable download, and a "reliable" PC.
    Reliable is in quotations because no PC is reliable, but taking good care of it helps.

    A few other unappointed tips from myself.

    Just because you're inexperienced doesn't mean people will flat out disregard your application - and if they do, they're fucking retarded.
    I have seen countless and a recruited a couple "under experienced" raiders, and watched them shit on my core raiders when they catchup in ilvl because they want it so bad.
    Just let them know you're in it to win it, you want the long haul, the 1% wipes, all of it.
    If you are looking for a heroic guild, be ready to be judged and questioned. They don't do it cause they hate you, they do it cause they want you to give a reason why.
    Play like a champion, and you will become one.
    Most importantly - have fun. Its just a game.
    Good luck!
    Anything else let me know. (nerve#1221)
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampz View Post
    4. If you do find a better opportunity, do NOT leave on a bad note.
    Don't be the guy who goes "fuck you all, i'm god cause I improve X/Y% each raid week and you all don't."
    Very few people who raid can put up with that kind of attitude - myself included (and I have a bit of an attitude!)
    Good advice, but: It has to be said that it is perfectly justifiable to say "Sorry guys, but this guild/raid is not what I expected it to be, and I am leaving."

    Guild-Clinging is one of the major mistakes a lot of good players make that holds them back. If your guild is not providing you the raid environment you seek, and that includes under-performance, you can leave and find a better place to raid. Don't go out the door showing them the middlefinger, but don't forget that there is a door.
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  11. #31
    Mechagnome Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampz View Post
    Hello!
    8. Your computer/network
    If you have 250ms - its gunna be hard to raid.
    If your computer lags like hell - you'll die lots.
    Try to have a stable download, and a "reliable" PC.
    Reliable is in quotations because no PC is reliable, but taking good care of it helps.
    A few things here. Use hard line (ethernet cable) and not wi-fi. Make sure you've got a good connection. Take steps to optimize web traffic for WoW (router configuration/QoS, etc.).

    UPS (uninterruptable power supply) for your computer (and router/cable/dsl modem).

    Wired keyboard and mouse. Or if you have to use wireless (make sure batteries are near by or topped off).
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  12. #32
    Stood in the Fire Vampz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorzzara View Post
    Good advice, but: It has to be said that it is perfectly justifiable to say "Sorry guys, but this guild/raid is not what I expected it to be, and I am leaving."

    Guild-Clinging is one of the major mistakes a lot of good players make that holds them back. If your guild is not providing you the raid environment you seek, and that includes under-performance, you can leave and find a better place to raid. Don't go out the door showing them the middlefinger, but don't forget that there is a door.
    Yup, forgot to mentioned this.
    Clinging is bad, set goals for yourself - if they don't have it, find who does.
    If you have been with the guild for a while, give them some time to replace you.
    I tell guilds I have left often 2-4 weeks before I stop playing, most of the time they thank me and just replace me immediately, but some guilds have had trouble recruiting and they still asked me to raid x/y/z day.
    It goes a long way, imho.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    A few things here. Use hard line (ethernet cable) and not wi-fi. Make sure you've got a good connection. Take steps to optimize web traffic for WoW (router configuration/QoS, etc.).

    UPS (uninterruptable power supply) for your computer (and router/cable/dsl modem).

    Wired keyboard and mouse. Or if you have to use wireless (make sure batteries are near by or topped off).
    Wireless mice/headsets crack me up.
    Wired equipment is much better than wireless, no one cares if you mouse has a charging dock.
    If it dies mid pull, its useless.
    Same thing goes with the net.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Vsml View Post
    Hi,

    Recently I've gotten back into PVE within the last 9 months, and have gotten myself around half Flex and Normal gear. I've taken time to apply for raiding guilds for WoD. And I'm just getting declined. I spoke to a GM through game on why he didn't accept my application as I really took time to apply for this certain guild. he said 'I took a look at your armoury and I wasn't impressed' Lol. I asked did you even take time to read the whole application and he said 'No sorry'.

    I understand they want experience. But how does one ever get high end experience without ever being accepted into a Guild?
    Depends a lot on the guild. If you're a new raider you don't apply to the hardcore guilds that aim for world firsts but rather to a guild further down. A guild like ours (Social Raiding/casual) or even purely social guilds with an on-and-off raidteam. You use that to gain experience and then either the guild will progress along with you or you will decide to move on to a better guild if the guild you joined is moving too slowly.

    Shan't speak for all types of guilds but for a guild like ours that try to mix some reasonable progression with a casual atmosphere we still do look for the person applying to actually make an effort. That is, enchant gear, show that you've read up on your class and know how you should distribute stats with reforging/gemming/enchanting, try to write a decent application and get them to know you just a little as a person. Are you sociable? Reliable? Willing to learn? All good stuff.

  14. #34
    Small steps. Get really good logs, apply for a slightly better guild, Example if you're only 2/20 heroic and you feel you're good enough to go further, apply to a 4/20 heroic guild. Repeat process until you are satisfied.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Vsml View Post
    Hi,

    Recently I've gotten back into PVE within the last 9 months, and have gotten myself around half Flex and Normal gear. I've taken time to apply for raiding guilds for WoD. And I'm just getting declined. I spoke to a GM through game on why he didn't accept my application as I really took time to apply for this certain guild. he said 'I took a look at your armoury and I wasn't impressed' Lol. I asked did you even take time to read the whole application and he said 'No sorry'.

    I understand they want experience. But how does one ever get high end experience without ever being accepted into a Guild?
    The best way to get into a raiding guild is to be a good player, and having a correct armory is literally the minimum effort you can put forth.

    I started raiding this xpac with zero prior experience in progression raiding. Just join a shitter guild like I did (running tier 14 to prepare for ToT normal modes...), do well, and make sure you keep parses of yourself. Good raid leaders will realize the circumstances and likely give you a trial.

    Just be prepared to deal with bad raids for a few months. Set your expectations low (like say joining a guild running Flex/Normal or a guild just forming) and just stay with them for about a tier to get experience, parses, and gear. This late in the xpac is the perfect time to do this. SoO only has about 2-3 more months left in it, and WoD is gonna be a fresh start for everyone.

    So to answer the question,

    But how does one ever get high end experience without ever being accepted into a Guild?
    By starting at the bottom. Some inherent skill goes a big way towards this. Instead of starting with a Flex raiding guild, you can start with a 14/14 normal guild for example. Either way, you're not gonna get into a high end guild if all you have to go on is your word.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chosenkiwi View Post
    Two rules :

    1) Is said guild recruiting your class?~
    Yes: Apply
    No: Ignore, and apply regardless.
    That's a funny one, and from my experience it's pretty true. Class recruitment requirements are just soft-requirements really, and unless the raid has a ridiculous amount of a specific class they'll take any amazing player they can find. Players matter more than classes (people can always reroll, and should when the raid needs it), and rosters always exceed how many people are actually in the raid group.
    Last edited by Larynx; 2014-09-04 at 05:59 PM.

  16. #36
    honestly, as someone who reads/checks apps thoroughly in my current guild & has been a previous recruitment officer I use sites like Wowtrack.org to check for guild hoppers, check for suspicious kill dates (had an application not too long ago where someone claimed they had done 10hc garrosh in their guild, despite not having killed Siegecrafter/Paragons prior and only having killed Thok a few days ago, and when I questioned him he withdrew his app since he obviously had been caught out.), check percentiles to make sure they are competing with current members, I honestly don't give a shit if you write a wall of text. If you're a shitter from the above things I've mentioned I'll likely call you out for it, I also check for keybinds (incredibly important if it's a tank app imo, having easy to reach keybinds and having everything important bound can make or break some fights when you need quick reactions to pick stuff up, interrupt etc), nameplates (I am surprised by the amount of people who don't use them).

    tl;dr most people don't read walls of text, they care about your performance & reliability, if you have no experience because you "quit" then what's to say you won't do it again?
    Last edited by Dreadwraith; 2014-09-05 at 05:33 AM.

  17. #37
    Pit Lord Galbrei's Avatar
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    More important than your gear, or knowing the fights, or having addons installed is being sociable.

    A guild (or at least it's raiding core) is a brotherhood dependent on mutual respect and empathy. If you can't get them to like you you'll eventually get booted from even the most tolerant guild or at least forgotten about as they replace you with more lively members. The good news however is that being sociable in WoW is super easy! All you need to do is talk (or type, even easier!) with your fellow guildies and build a good rapport.

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