Do we need another Battleground "difficulty"?

[Netherspark]

Flex mode raiding was created because there were people for whom LFR was simply too easy/disorganized/unchallenging, but normal+ was too difficult/time consuming. Flex was designed to be the middle ground, and successfully created a place where 'average' players could raid in a setting appropriate for them.

Battlegrounds only have two modes: rated & random (essentially Mythic & LFR in comparison). I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that I find RBG's too serious for my tastes, but randoms aren't serious enough and are often too disorganized. Yes, you can make premades but there's no fun in plowing over a team of randoms, and they can often be hard to find anyway. War games let you fight against another premade group but don't offer any rewards or incentives.

What I think we need is a middle-ground mode for Battlegrounds, something between rated and random. Such a thing might be hard to create, but I'd like to see it happen. I'd like a premade-only mode that pits you against other premades randomly selected from a queue; a BG that offers more rewards (honor & conquest) than randoms, but doesn't award any rating or RGB rewards (no rank titles or mounts etc).

Random BGs should be for 'casual' players and gearing up,. Premades for the 'average' player. RBG's for the serious/dedicated PVP'er -- such a system would have something for everybody, allowing everyone to play with groups of their own skill & gear.

[grimsanta]

What would prevent the premades from becoming just as hard as the RBGs?

[Renedric]

What would prevent the premades from becoming just as hard as the RBGs?

Nothing, because you can't expect a player to be categorized and scaled in the same manner as PvE content. It's why there's a ladder system. What he's really asking for is a solo queue rated battleground system. Players face each other in their respective skill bracket without organized premades.

Truthfully, solo queue rated BGs sound brilliant. Could be alot of fun.

[Bathory]

Truthfully, solo queue rated BGs sound brilliant. Could be alot of fun.

I'd love solo rated BGs. Sometimes I just wanna go in and kick some ass, I don't wanna have to wait for my group.

[Golden]

Maybe a better idea would be to use the rating system on both rated BGs and random BGs. However, the rating system would be hidden in random BGs.

The benefits would be:
1. Theoretically more balanced teams.
2. New players would play with/against other new players. Experienced players would play with/against other experienced players.
3. Bots would be quarantined from players; Most players would have higher hidden ratings than Bots and wouldn't get stuck on their teams.
4. AFKers, and others not trying to win, would lose rating over time and eventually get stuck playing with the Bots.
5. Premades wouldn't be such a problem; A 1700 rating PUG team would be a fair fight against a 1700 premade team, etc.

PS: I wouldn't mind the solo-queued rated BGs either

[Gigana]

Solo Rated BGs are a ludicrous idea. They would literally be the same as random BGs.

Seriously, based on what would you even rate players on it? How would you make teams? What about bots? Afkers? Trolls who are just fooling around? Just imagine the queue times if you have to wait for a tank + 3 healers.

It's fine as it is.

[Netherspark]

What he's really asking for is a solo queue rated battleground system. Players face each other in their respective skill bracket without organized premades

That's not even remotely close to what I said??

What I suggested was basically War Games but with honor/conquest rewards and a matchup system to pit the teams up against worthy opponents - a medium skill Battleground.

What would prevent the premades from becoming just as hard as the RBGs?

What prevents Mythic/Heroic raiders from doing Flex raids? Rewards. RBG players wouldn't really have any reason to go there, as RBG's would have far better rewards and experiences.

[melzas]

Timeless Battlegrounds!
-you can only queue alone (excludes premades)
-your matchmaking rating is a mix of your win/lose ratio as well as pvp gear ilvl, enchants and gems
-leaving game before its over results in huge mmr lose (twice or trice of what would you drop if you lost)
-leaving three games in a row before they are over results in resetting your mmr to 0
-losing gives no rewards in honor/conquest
-40 man bgs are excluded (since your contribution in those is much lesser than in other bgs)
- team compostions are fixed, so you always get 1 tank, 3 healers. If queues lack any role (for example, not enough healers queueing), then you get Call to arms! for given role, and if you win you get extra rewards (like satchels in LFR, that can contain some pvp gear, conuqest, or something extra).
- you can only queue if you are in a spec fitting the role you chose for the battleground, and you can't change spec while in a queue
- you cannot queue if you don't meet min. pvp ilvl requirement
- to reduce queue times you can be put on either side of the battle, regardless of your faction. If you end up being on opposite faction your race changes to random enemy faction race (not the racials ofc, just the visuals, something like orb of deception buff or caverns of time buff)
- winning grants conquest points and a gives you a shot at random honor gear (like 20% or something) and very small chance for vicious saddle (like 0.5%)

I'm sure there would be a good amout of players who would like system like this

[Thelxi]

Solo queue rated BGs would indeed be fun. In GW2 soloq arenas, class titles and climbing the ladder are awesome.

However in WoW people would just bot them, and since by now it is very obvious Blizzard isn't prepared to spend the resources on actually fighting the bots, this would never happen. Rated BGs is the best they can do right now.

Come to think of it I would like random BGs to be even more restricted in the premade department, 2 people max can queue together. That would help out a tiny bit. Of course there would still be enormous unfairness that are not caused by premades but by bots and faction wide blacklisting, but it would be something.

[Netherspark]

??????

How are you people reading what I'm writing and thinking "solo RBGs"? I've said nothing of the kind

[Golden]

However in WoW people would just bot them, and since by now it is very obvious Blizzard isn't prepared to spend the resources on actually fighting the bots, this would never happen. Rated BGs is the best they can do right now.

I seriously doubt any Bot would get a higher rating than 1200. If a player can't get a higher rating than a Bot, they probably enjoy fighting Bots more than people anyway.

Seriously, based on what would you even rate players on it? How would you make teams? What about bots? Afkers?

How does Blizzard rate players in rated BGs?...by wins and losses. The number of points you gain or lose is based on the difference between your team's average rating and the other team's average rating. Rated BGs already have a personal rating for each player on the team. Why would this system work for rated BGs but not for random BGs? Those of us who use oQueue for rated BGs already know the rating system works.

The only difference with the solo-queue would be that the server formed the teams by pulling together people with similar personal ratings (think sports leagues) rather than a player forming a Yolo team with oQueue w/rating requirements...which takes longer.

Part of the problem with random BGs is that they are too random; You get new people in quest greens fighting veteran players in conquest gear, etc.

[Renedric]

??????

How are you people reading what I'm writing and thinking "solo RBGs"? I've said nothing of the kind

You are asking for a "flex" version of battlegrounds. Flex is scaled down to meet lower ilvl requirements than normal. How would you scale a player? The only possible way is via personal rating; their skill level. So you're basically saying you want to be facing players your own skill level without having to go through the process of forming a premade group. The only way that's possible is via solo rated battlegrounds. Why? because everyone has a different skill level. If you decide to pair up with someone and queue for these "flex" bgs you want, you will not get your own level of competition. Plus it kind of makes it no different that rated BGs. So if you do not want solo rated, I don't know what you're really asking for. You can't just scale real life people to your own skill level. Comparing PvP to PvE in the first place is ridiculous.

[Gigana]

How does Blizzard rate players in rated BGs?...by wins and losses. The number of points you gain or lose is based on the difference between your team's average rating and the other team's average rating. Rated BGs already have a personal rating for each player on the team. Why would this system work for rated BGs but not for random BGs? Those of us who use oQueue for rated BGs already know the rating system works.

The only difference with the solo-queue would be that the server formed the teams by pulling together people with similar personal ratings (think sports leagues) rather than a player forming a Yolo team with oQueue w/rating requirements...which takes longer.

Even disregarding bots, it would still all be about luck on what kind of group you get and what kinda group the enemy team gets. Imagine one team having 3 healers and the other having zero. Or an unlucky guy playing game after game after game with a bunch of bots on his team. Or noobs playing crap specs.

And if you made a system where every team needs to have 3 healers + a tank, you're easily looking at 3 hour queues.

[Mazeari]

I'd love solo rated BGs. Sometimes I just wanna go in and kick some ass, I don't wanna have to wait for my group.

This really, just make it sort of rbg's, with a hidden mmr. And make you to solo queue. Ofc have a set number of healer/dps ofc.
I would play this to death.

[Netherspark]

? ? ? ? ?

I am completely lost for words... this entire thread has been nothing but people blindly responding to things that nobody has even said! Have any of you even read the OP?

I don't even understand, where are you getting "player scaling" from now?! Am I writing in a foreign fucking language?

You are making up random words that have nothing to do with this thread, putting them in my mouth and then trying to criticise the result

[Renedric]

? ? ? ? ?

I am completely lost for words... this entire thread has been nothing but people blindly responding to things that nobody has even said! Have any of you even read the OP?

I don't even understand, where are you getting "player scaling" from now?! Am I writing in a foreign fucking language?

You are making up random words that have nothing to do with this thread, putting them in my mouth and then trying to criticise the result

People are trying to be useful by interpreting what you've stated in the original post in the most realistic manner, yet you're getting mad. First you mentioned you didn't like premades because they're too serious, but normals aren't serious enough so you want something in between (this is the rationale behind all the comments). Afterwards you edit that you want a premade that offers little rewards(wtf?) Well.. there you have it. You want to go through all the trouble to find 9 other people for a premade battleground system that offers less rewards than rated because people take rated BGs too seriously. So technically you are looking for a reaaaaaally terrible battleground premade team or just tank your rating and you'll be able to beat all the scrubs you want! Whoohoo! Organized victory!


*edit*

Random BGs should be for 'casual' players and gearing up,. Premades for the 'average' player. RBG's for the serious/dedicated PVP'er -- such a system would have something for everybody, allowing everyone to play with groups of their own skill & gear.

Rated Battlegrounds serve the same purpose of the premade you're mentioning as it covers all ranges of skill level.

[Tyrgannus]

I don't know how you would effectively create a middle ground BG tier. Player skill is a massive variable in PvP.

Massive.

They only possible way to attempt to marginalize it somehow is to...rate..players......oh wait we have that. I don't know how to middle ground this dawg

[nstomper]

Solo Rated BGs are a ludicrous idea. They would literally be the same as random BGs.

Seriously, based on what would you even rate players on it? How would you make teams? What about bots? Afkers? Trolls who are just fooling around? Just imagine the queue times if you have to wait for a tank + 3 healers.

It's fine as it is.

It would be more like a MOBA. Those generally seem to work out fine.

[Ciddy]

I like the idea of having a BG difficulty where it's random but at least has a gear requirement. Even if it's just a random BG, I think it'd be more fun if both sides were above a certain gear level with none of the boosted 90s/bots who have less than 400k health buffed.

Although I imagine that queue times for all the battlegrounds would become ridiculous over that. Not sure if there's really a solution there.

[Riplin]

1. Come up with an algorithm to rate players based on their INDIVIDUAL contribution to a random battleground win. Over time, this number should balance across the player base.

2. Match random BG players based on that rating.

3. Do NOT let people switch specs once they are in the BG.

4. Require that each player type a code from a random .gif before entering the BG, to weed out the bots.

5. Give rewards that can vary based on the competitiveness of the match (losing close way better than losing badly), ilevel, healer advantage/disadvantage and other factors.

In addition to all this, significantly reduce conquest gained in Arena. A sideshow buddy-duel should never be the focus of a game based on war. Start a new game: Duelcraft. Arena should be a place where you practice your skills (for minimal rewards) to take into the battlegrounds. Increase BG rewards including adding unique gear, transmog items, titles and mounts. Let these be attainable through perserverance! That means, hard word, at an individual level. Plus, add a ton of BG dailies. All this will get the good players back into battlegrounds which is where they should be.