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  1. #21
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saiyendra View Post
    It will not be affected by your level being higher.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...2UQ/edit#gid=0

    Make a copy of that spreadsheet and fiddle with the levels accordingly. The formulas in that spreadsheet come from this:

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...8929?page=2#37
    I actually didn't know MoP wasn't going to be affected. That's really disappointing

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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    I actually didn't know MoP wasn't going to be affected. That's really disappointing
    Is it really disappointing? I'm not sure, but I think it's nice if something "difficult" remains. Tricky ways to fight bosses is nice from time to time because you learn a lot by doing so. It is good to allow everyone to solo old content for farming mounts or transmog-gear without needing a group, but a "small" challenging part is important, too.

  3. #23
    If you want a blast from the blast. This mage says hi to all the tanking he did in Stratholm skeleton trash or a sometimes just a raidtrash or dungeon mob all to save the healer, died often but the healers loved it .........................sometimes i think i should have rolled a tank :P.

    Ooh High king Maulgar was awesome (krosh firehand). I remember i saved all the green items that dropped with only stamina during tbc lvling/dungeoneering and it was sooooooo usefull on that boss .

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Loewenherz View Post
    Is it really disappointing? I'm not sure, but I think it's nice if something "difficult" remains. Tricky ways to fight bosses is nice from time to time because you learn a lot by doing so. It is good to allow everyone to solo old content for farming mounts or transmog-gear without needing a group, but a "small" challenging part is important, too.
    Exactly this. I honestly wish that they'd nerf the bonus modifiers, because they turn even Cataclysm 25H bosses (most of which are only possible right now because tanks have enough gear to outheal enrages) into faceroll jokes. It entirely removes the challenge from otherwise interesting fights, like Conclave, Ragnaros, Sinestra, etc.

  5. #25
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saiyendra View Post
    Exactly this. I honestly wish that they'd nerf the bonus modifiers, because they turn even Cataclysm 25H bosses (most of which are only possible right now because tanks have enough gear to outheal enrages) into faceroll jokes. It entirely removes the challenge from otherwise interesting fights, like Conclave, Ragnaros, Sinestra, etc.
    Well it will just be like how 25m H ICC is now. Besides Valithria and LK, most bosses are just faceroll solo and that was a large scale epic raid. It hasn't degraded my feelings toward the raid or my experience just because its easy, its fun enough with nostalgia and seeing how much scaling has changed things.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Saiyendra View Post
    Exactly this. I honestly wish that they'd nerf the bonus modifiers, because they turn even Cataclysm 25H bosses (most of which are only possible right now because tanks have enough gear to outheal enrages) into faceroll jokes. It entirely removes the challenge from otherwise interesting fights, like Conclave, Ragnaros, Sinestra, etc.
    From looking at dps on beta legacy bosses and kill times with dungeon gear, it's roughly the same as it would be in t17-t18 gear without the item squish. So yeah, slightly more nerfed than it would be normal, probably to play it safe, but the difference isn't large at all.

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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Baalb View Post
    I'll just leave that here, I'm sure Polar wouldn't mind.
    oh my god, i love this. this is what fun is. i hope it stays like this <3

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Araitik View Post
    We will never be even slighly tanky.
    Mages were also tanks (at least I was) for Terestian Illhoof's fiery Imps in Karazhan too. (As well as Krosh and Zerevor) But those encounters are far and few

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  9. #29
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    We're bottom of the barrel when it comes to overall soloability on bosses, only beating out Rogues to my knowledge because we're ranged and Invocation healing if we need it.

    Death Knights: Self-healing; armor
    Druids: Healing hybrid
    Hunters: Decent passive healing; unkillable pets
    Monk: Healing hybrid
    Paladin: Healing hybrid; armor
    Priest: Healing hybrid
    Rogue: The only class worse than us
    Shaman: Healing hybrid
    Warlock: Plenty of lifestealing; pets
    Warrior: Passive healing; armor

    And then Mage: Meh self-healing; lowest HP/Armor; no damage reduction (outside of Fire getting 6%/16% physical reduction)
    Pretty sure Rogues are better then mages due to Leeching Poison, 5% per 3s recupe, and 10% heal Shiv, as well as having more armor, and significantly higher avoidance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingTitle View Post
    Mages were also tanks (at least I was) for Terestian Illhoof's fiery Imps in Karazhan too. (As well as Krosh and Zerevor) But those encounters are far and few
    Back when mages had spellsteal, fire/frost ward, and tons of resistance, yes. Mages were beast at taking things that did only magic damage.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    I actually didn't know MoP wasn't going to be affected. That's really disappointing
    It shouldn't need to be affected as all MoP content should be squished so that lvl 90s have the same power going into 6.0 as they do currently.

    10 man MoP content should be easy outside of completely un-soloable fights (Sha o Pride/Norushen) given that a good amount of content has been solod currently. (Tortos/Jin'rokh/Ji'kun, all of MSV, Sha o Fear)
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Define "scaled down". If you mean "MoP is not being nerfed", then yeah, it's not. If you mean "MoP is not going to be affected by your level being higher", then I'd like a source. AFAIK, it will be when we hit Level 91.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...8929?page=2#37

    Players do not gain bonus damage dealt to MoP creatures, nor do they gain reduced damage received from MoP creatures. Our ability to solo MoP content will only be increased by our increased stats from levelling and improved items.

  11. #31
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loewenherz View Post
    Is it really disappointing? I'm not sure, but I think it's nice if something "difficult" remains. Tricky ways to fight bosses is nice from time to time because you learn a lot by doing so. It is good to allow everyone to solo old content for farming mounts or transmog-gear without needing a group, but a "small" challenging part is important, too.
    Except Mages won't be able to for awhile, and I don't consider the world bosses to be "challenging", more like "we won't be able to solo them, period" and I REALLY wanted my Heavenly Onyx

    Quote Originally Posted by taelon View Post
    If you want a blast from the blast. This mage says hi to all the tanking he did in Stratholm skeleton trash or a sometimes just a raidtrash or dungeon mob all to save the healer, died often but the healers loved it .........................sometimes i think i should have rolled a tank :P.
    So dungeons in general? Yeah I did that too :3

    Quote Originally Posted by taelon View Post
    Ooh High king Maulgar was awesome (krosh firehand). I remember i saved all the green items that dropped with only stamina during tbc lvling/dungeoneering and it was sooooooo usefull on that boss .
    He wasn't really; it was just Spellsteal, stay at a very long range, and spam on him to keep aggro. While I didn't get to tank him until the end of BC (I didn't play Mage until 2.4.3, which was the Sunwell patch), he wasn't as interesting as people made him out to be; he was just different because a Mage tanked him. I personally feel like Warlock "tanking" the small imps on Illhoof in Karazhan was a bit more interesting (Warlock being the last class I played prior to Mage), but still lacking because all you did was spam Seed of Corruption

    Quote Originally Posted by LocNess View Post
    Well it will just be like how 25m H ICC is now. Besides Valithria and LK, most bosses are just faceroll solo and that was a large scale epic raid. It hasn't degraded my feelings toward the raid or my experience just because its easy, its fun enough with nostalgia and seeing how much scaling has changed things.
    *Nods* Though it'll be incredibly difficult without any self-healing and no real skills to help us "avoid damage" outside of Alter Time/Ice Barrier and a Cold Snap heal on a 3m cooldown. Plus, we can't even do world bosses, which I was expecting to be able to take down, which is why it's disappointing. Elegon/Ji-Kun too, but they can wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    oh my god, i love this. this is what fun is. i hope it stays like this <3
    It was kinda fun actually, just destroying those things that caused me so much frustration because I disliked Cataclysm greatly. If you want to see some lulz though in fights that weren't ever thought to be solo'd...

    (Warning: Horrible capture/editing)


    I kid you not, this was the only viable way I found to defeat Spine; I wiped a good 5 times trying to figure out what to do before resorting to this nonsense, and god damn this fight is WAY longer than it needs to be. I might solo it on 25m every week just to make bloods spawn faster.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingTitle View Post
    Mages were also tanks (at least I was) for Terestian Illhoof's fiery Imps in Karazhan too. (As well as Krosh and Zerevor) But those encounters are far and few
    This was only if you didn't have a Warlock though as Seed was just effortless and easier to do than Mages.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2014-08-31 at 11:25 PM.

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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Except Mages won't be able to for awhile, and I don't consider the world bosses to be "challenging", more like "we won't be able to solo them, period" and I REALLY wanted my Heavenly Onyx
    I don't think all old content should be trivialized for everyone else owing to one classes' mechanics. A great part of the appeal in soloing lies not in mounts and transmog gear but also the difficulty in finding something that works and pushing your limits for a boss. Blizzard has also specifically stated that they do not intend to make all old content soloable by every class.

    My apologies for sounding harsh, but if you really want your Heavenly Onyx Cloud Serpent that badly and don't want to find another person to do it with, roll a death knight!

  13. #33
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saiyendra View Post
    I don't think all old content should be trivialized for everyone else owing to one classes' mechanics. A great part of the appeal in soloing lies not in mounts and transmog gear but also the difficulty in finding something that works and pushing your limits for a boss. Blizzard has also specifically stated that they do not intend to make all old content soloable by every class.
    I'm well aware of that, and I do enjoy the difficulty to a degree, but the world bosses are a bit different. To expect us to get a decent sized group (~4-20 depending on gear/skill) for a weekly 1% chance is just frustrating, especially when not many will want to bother.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saiyendra View Post
    My apologies for sounding harsh, but if you really want your Heavenly Onyx Cloud Serpent that badly and don't want to find another person to do it with, roll a death knight!
    You DO know even a DK won't be able to solo Sha of Anger, right? If it was a matter of me finding one other person, sure, but it's not looking like that with world bosses.

    Edit: Well fuck. Apparently people have solo'd it, just Mages won't be able to due to no self-healing >_>;
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2014-09-04 at 06:56 AM.

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  14. #34
    He wasn't really; it was just Spellsteal, stay at a very long range, and spam on him to keep aggro. While I didn't get to tank him until the end of BC (I didn't play Mage until 2.4.3, which was the Sunwell patch), he wasn't as interesting as people made him out to be; he was just different because a Mage tanked him. I personally feel like Warlock "tanking" the small imps on Illhoof in Karazhan was a bit more interesting (Warlock being the last class I played prior to Mage), but still lacking because all you did was spam Seed of Corruption
    Your right he wasn't too special but rather just diffrent. The hp at start did help though, it resulted in you being able take his attacks without spellstealing creating room for error

    Quote Originally Posted by Saiyendra View Post
    I don't think all old content should be trivialized for everyone else owing to one classes' mechanics. A great part of the appeal in soloing lies not in mounts and transmog gear but also the difficulty in finding something that works and pushing your limits for a boss. Blizzard has also specifically stated that they do not intend to make all old content soloable by every class.

    My apologies for sounding harsh, but if you really want your Heavenly Onyx Cloud Serpent that badly and don't want to find another person to do it with, roll a death knight!
    Because mages being number one on damage and if you don't like it roll one isn't a valid answer neither is this and you are than just being a dick. However you can argue about the importance of balancing soloing. And it's also why their isn't such a massive complaint about it, but the complaint is slowly creeping up. It doesn't help that the main terrains of the mage that was Damage and CC has been balanced over expansions.

    However if mages can solo all the previous expansion raids i'd actually have to say the soloing gap become smaller. I do imagine mage will still have much more difficulty. But I imagine this occured not because of diffrent mage mechanics but because of much higher itemlvl leaps that MoP did compared to previous expansions. With the itemlvl squish and scaling system I am unsure how this will influence soloing in next expansion.

    The only upside of mage mechanics is that it's avoiding dmg mechanics make it a signature of the mage that's enjoyable in group raiding. Unfortunatly the way these mechanics work is that you need to use your abilities preemtively and know the enemy while classes with healing abilities can react afterwards making soloing stuff a lot easier. You don't want to look up strategy,learn and plan every enemy you face (rarespawns, multiple questsmobs, old content).

  15. #35
    I agree that my words were not very nice, and I do apologize for that.

    But I'd like to call to your attention the fact that balance in soloing is very different from balance in DPS - so much so that "because death knights/monks/warlocks are number one, roll one" actually becomes a valid answer. Unlike in DPS, Blizzard simply can't balance out soloing owing to their choice in different approaches to class/specialization design. Thus, you can guarantee that tank specialization with self-healing are always at the top here, and it is quite unlikely that anything will be done about that.

    Yes, the gap between classes has closed to a large extent in MoP - nearly all classes can solo nearly all Cataclysm content. The differential only arises in MoP raid content, where death knights, monks, and warlocks clearly dominate. It'll be interesting to see how WoD affects this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    I'm well aware of that, and I do enjoy the difficulty to a degree, but the world bosses are a bit different. To expect us to get a decent sized group (~4-20 depending on gear/skill) for a weekly 1% chance is just frustrating, especially when not many will want to bother.
    Which world bosses are you referring to? Aside from Ordos, everything should be very easily 2-mannable in WoD, especially in the later tiers. For Sha of Anger, you just need to outrange the Mind Control.
    Last edited by Saiyendra; 2014-09-04 at 12:41 PM.

  16. #36
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saiyendra View Post
    Which world bosses are you referring to? Aside from Ordos, everything should be very easily 2-mannable in WoD, especially in the later tiers. For Sha of Anger, you just need to outrange the Mind Control.
    Even at 100, I see us having some level of difficulty with Sha of Anger, unless our Ice Barrier will manage us (and if not, Cold Snap every 3m, and Regenerative Ice every 5m). If Ice Barrier can't keep us up for that long though, we won't be able to manage it since we lost our passive self-healing (Rune of Power glyphed) or our active self-healing (Invocation glyphed).

    And 2-mannable or not, that still means I have to rely on someone else. I'd rather find a way to be able to solo him (and doesn't he do some blasty thing if no one's in melee? Would probs need to be in melee of him, plus you get that damage boost)

    With the Tank Squish from yesterday, it might be a bit more manageable, assuming that affects ALL monsters, and not just WoD.

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