What has the item squish accomplished, exactly?

[Xargoth6634]

I don't particularly care one way or the other about the squish. When I was raiding competitively I'd basically just try to beat the friends I was raiding with, and the actual numbers themselves weren't important as long as my percentage was higher than theirs. One of my friends just likes to see big numbers though, and he's pretty irked about the changes.

[Blackmist]

In laymans terms, the healthpool of bosses was getting too large for the majority of peoples computers to handle (32 bit)

You PC can handle 64 bit maths regardless of it being a 64 bit CPU.

In any case, most CPUs implement 64 bit and have done for a surprisingly long time. It was widely available in Pentium 4 from about 2004, and AMD64 has been available since 2003. Unless you haven't had an upgrade since WoW's launch, there's a very good chance you're using a 64 bit CPU right now.

[Deathquoi]

64-bit numbers.

And I want a golden pony that shits diamonds. What you expected was not realistic, not to mention the fact that boss hp pools in the trillions and player pools in the tens of millions are just unwieldy and strange. How is it so difficult to accept that 150k in old damage is now 15k or so in new damage? Why is that so hurtful to your psyche?

- - - Updated - - -

I don't particularly care one way or the other about the squish. When I was raiding competitively I'd basically just try to beat the friends I was raiding with, and the actual numbers themselves weren't important as long as my percentage was higher than theirs. One of my friends just likes to see big numbers though, and he's pretty irked about the changes.

This is exactly the issue. Some people realize that the only comparison you can make is to other players, not your previous numbers. Some people just want to see bigger and bigger numbers.

[rda]

And I want a golden pony that shits diamonds. What you expected was not realistic, not to mention the fact that boss hp pools in the trillions and player pools in the tens of millions are just unwieldy and strange. How is it so difficult to accept that 150k in old damage is now 15k or so in new damage? Why is that so hurtful to your psyche?

Eek... yes, it (64-bit numbers) is completely realistic. More difficult than the squish, but much easier than many of the other things they are doing. /shrug

- - - Updated - - -

Some people realize that the only comparison you can make is to other players, not your previous numbers. Some people just want to see bigger and bigger numbers.

LOL, who is saying this? You? Okay.

[Deathquoi]

Eek... yes, it (64-bit numbers) is completely realistic. More difficult than the squish, but much easier than many of the other things they are doing. /shrug

- - - Updated - - -



LOL, who is saying this? You? Okay.

Who is saying what? That they want to see bigger and bigger numbers? Literally everyone that is complaining about the squish.

And I'm so glad you have inside knowledge of how easy it is to switch everything from 32 bit integers to 64 bit. Why haven't these idiots at blizzard signed you on yet?

[Deleted]

Yeah OP, it's a band-aid fix and a cop out to me, they were scared of upsetting the people that want big numbers I guess.

[Cute Chen]

I don't care what they do, as long as I can still solo old content.

[Monoroth]

To summarize, Stat Squish was done to keep boss HP in check. They lowered players dps and on top of that they lowered amount of players (from 25 to 20)for highest posb difficulty in which bosses have the most hp.

Soloing older continet is still the same no difference at all, you scale exponentially to the targets which are lower lvl then you are, for example you'll prob gonna hit 1 mil crits in ICC and like 1-2 mil crits in lvl 70 continet and so on. MoP continet wont give you exponential scale as bosses/mobs are lvl 92/93 which is still green at lvl 100 and MoP continet will remian challenging atleast some bosses.

Also we may have 2-3 mil hp in 2-3 expansion but as long as we do 60-70k dps that wont matter as long as boss hp wont reach 1b+. People mentioned it before, blizz wouldn't have to do item squish if they for exampel recoded 32bit client ( Which could harm other stuff in wow bear in min it's 10years+ old system/code which wow is built upon screwing up with it may bring more harm then good) or they could switch wow to 64 bit again same thing as with 32 bit redocing but also it would take them alot of time to transfer everything and make everything work. Since wow is 32 bit it it's max number limit is 2.1b Garrosh 25 HC with 2 intermission phases has around 4.1 b HP, he heals so many items it's retarded fight. Now imagine if there was no item squish, every boss would have 2b hp and would heal 5-10 times and later on up to 30 times during the fight. Can you imagine boss having 10-30 phases.

On WoW 2 subject it could work if they just copyed the exisiting WoW of updated stuff etc ( also catering for lower end PCs) and allow us to copy chars and everything over so you don't lose anything, unless WoW 2 will start a totaly different story.

[GhostFish]

People are funny.

If the ratios and relative scales remain the same, there is mathematically no difference between raising stat caps or lowering stat values with each expansion.

But we still crave the bigger numbers, because our silly brains tell us that bigger is better.

It's totally irrational, and yet totally understandable. It's really kind of an interesting insight into the human psyche.

[Ishayu]

The item squish was more about damage than health, but yes; I absolutely agree with the OP.

Health pools don't need to be 300k+ at level 100. That's absolutely insane.

PvP has somewhat benefitted from the big health pools, but they're actually too big. I've done plenty of 2v2 and 3v3 to see this. Even without healing going out at all it can take ~30 seconds to kill anybody even if they're AFK. If they're not AFK it can take minutes!

I understand they want people to hover around 50-60% and have triage gameplay, and that's fine, but if people are ALWAYS hovering at around that amount of health and there is an absolutely constant barrage of healer pressure from this triage gameplay, I suspect healers will be tired.

I decided that the numbers were too big for my liking and so I wrote an addon that divides everybody's displayed health, mana, damage, and healing by 16. This gives much more reasonable numbers, with Rake and Rip hovering about 400 (800 crit) at max level and health pools sitting at around 20k.

I still think we do too little damage and healing compared to the size of the health pools, but at least I got that far. The number that the game divides by is lower at low levels, and smoothly scales up.

[Deleted]

Eek... yes, it (64-bit numbers) is completely realistic. More difficult than the squish, but much easier than many of the other things they are doing. /shrug

No, its not easy.

Many many many people out there use 32bit operating systems on their gaming rig. Of course blizzard can use 64bit signed integers on their servers, I would be amazed if they were still running on 32bit systems...but: The server application is not stand-alone. At some poin, it has to transfer information to the client, and if the client is running on an 32bit OS, it cannot process a 64bit integer. It can try, but at that point the OS would step in, and shut the client down due to a segmentation fault. THERE IS NOTHING BLIZZARD CAN DO ABOUT THAT, THEY CANNOT CHANGE THE OPERATING SYSTEMS PEOPLE ARE USING ON THEIR HOME COMPUTERS!

Of course, they could announce that WoW is now 64bit only. They could also just take a 3rd of their income and burn the money, that would be easier, and upset less people.

[Ishayu]

People are funny.

If the ratios and relative scales remain the same, there is mathematically no difference between raising stat caps or lowering stat values with each expansion.

But we still crave the bigger numbers, because our silly brains tell us that bigger is better.

It's totally irrational, and yet totally understandable. It's really kind of an interesting insight into the human psyche.

But they DIDN'T. In MoP it's common to do DPS of around ~2/3rds of your maximum health in PvE. In WoD, you're lucky if you do 1/15th of your maximum health in PvE.

Literally damage is WotLK levels, health is MoP levels. If I squish it down, as I described in an earlier post, you get damage numbers lower than those in vanilla - we're talking level 40 vanilla stuff here, and WotLK health pools.

Can't anybody else see how crazy that is?

[Deathquoi]

The item squish was more about damage than health, but yes; I absolutely agree with the OP.

Health pools don't need to be 300k+ at level 100. That's absolutely insane.

PvP has somewhat benefitted from the big health pools, but they're actually too big. I've done plenty of 2v2 and 3v3 to see this. Even without healing going out at all it can take ~30 seconds to kill anybody.

I understand they want people to hover around 50-60% and have triage gameplay, and that's fine, but if people are ALWAYS hovering at around that amount of health and there is an absolutely constant barrage of healer pressure from this triage gameplay, I suspect healers will be tired.

I decided that the numbers were too big for my liking and so I wrote an addon that divides everybody's displayed health, mana, damage, and healing by 16. This gives much more reasonable numbers, with Rake and Rip hovering about 400 (800 crit) at max level and health pools sitting at around 20k.

I still think we do too little damage and healing compared to the size of the health pools, but at least I got that far. The number that the game divides by is lower at low levels, and smoothly scales up.

The whole reason that HP is still high in relation to damage is so they could remove resilience, which was a silly stat that discouraged a lot of players from getting into PvP after the first season in an expansion.

[Deleted]

But they DIDN'T. In MoP it's common to do DPS of around ~2/3rds of your maximum health in PvE. In WoD, you're lucky if you do 1/15th of your maximum health in PvE.

Literally damage is WotLK levels, health is MoP levels. If I squish it down, as I described in an earlier post, you get damage numbers lower than those in vanilla - we're talking level 40 vanilla stuff here, and WotLK health pools.

Can't anybody else see how crazy that is?

It isn't crazy at all. HP were kept high, so they could get rid of PvP-Resilience. What IS crazy, is to make people super-powerful dps machines in PvE, but let them hit like a wet noodle in PvP.

[Deathquoi]

But they DIDN'T. In MoP it's common to do DPS of around ~2/3rds of your maximum health in PvE. In WoD, you're lucky if you do 1/15th of your maximum health in PvE.

Literally damage is WotLK levels, health is MoP levels. If I squish it down, as I described in an earlier post, you get damage numbers lower than those in vanilla - we're talking level 40 vanilla stuff here, and WotLK health pools.

Can't anybody else see how crazy that is?

See above.

[Ishayu]

No, its not easy.

Many many many people out there use 32bit operating systems on their gaming rig. Of course blizzard can use 64bit signed integers on their servers, I would be amazed if they were still running on 32bit systems...but: The server application is not stand-alone. At some poin, it has to transfer information to the client, and if the client is running on an 32bit OS, it cannot process a 64bit integer. It can try, but at that point the OS would step in, and shut the client down due to a segmentation fault. THERE IS NOTHING BLIZZARD CAN DO ABOUT THAT, THEY CANNOT CHANGE THE OPERATING SYSTEMS PEOPLE ARE USING ON THEIR HOME COMPUTERS!

Of course, they could announce that WoW is now 64bit only. They could also just take a 3rd of their income and burn the money, that would be easier, and upset less people.

This is factually incorrect. 32-bit systems haven't got any problem at all with 64 bit integers. If it did, Diablo 3 would never work on a 32 bit system.

In fact, in C, you can prefix "long" before int as many times you want to get bigger and bigger integers, in powers of two. If I write "long long long int" it has 256 bits, with a maximum value of 3618502788666131106986593281521497120414687020801267626233049500247285301247

Please do a little bit of research before you open your mouth.

- - - Updated - - -

It isn't crazy at all. HP were kept high, so they could get rid of PvP-Resilience. What IS crazy, is to make people super-powerful dps machines in PvE, but let them hit like a wet noodle in PvP.

PvP survivability was already too high. The only reason people died like they did was because of ranged stuns they couldn't predict followed by stacking 5 cooldowns that stack multiplicatively and the healer getting CC'd for over a minute at a time.

High rated MoP PvP literally cannot resolve until someone sits in CC for nearly a minute OR someone pops a swifty macros.

In WoD, almost all swifty macros are gone, and those that remain are severely nerfed, and CC likewise.

PvP in WoD doesn't need these big health pools anymore.

[Deathquoi]

This is factually incorrect. 32-bit systems haven't got any problem at all with 64 bit integers. If it did, Diablo 3 would never work on a 32 bit system.

In fact, in C, you can prefix "long" before int as many times you want to get bigger and bigger integers, in powers of two. If I write "long long long int" it has 256 bits, with a maximum value of 3618502788666131106986593281521497120414687020801267626233049500247285301247

Please do a little bit of research before you open your mouth.

- - - Updated - - -

PvP survivability was already too high. The only reason people died like they did was because of ranged stuns they couldn't predict followed by stacking 5 cooldowns that stack multiplicatively and the healer getting CC'd for over a minute at a time.

High rated MoP PvP literally cannot resolve until someone sits in CC for nearly a minute OR someone pops a swifty macros.

In WoD, almost all swifty macros are gone, and those that remain are severely nerfed, and CC likewise.

PvP in WoD doesn't need these big health pools anymore.

You are trying so hard to justify your opposition to this and it just makes no sense whatsoever. You want big damage numbers, we get it. They're not coming back.

[Ishayu]

You are trying so hard to justify your opposition to this and it just makes no sense whatsoever. You want big damage numbers, we get it. They're not coming back.

I decided that the numbers were too big for my liking and so I wrote an addon that divides everybody's displayed health, mana, damage, and healing by 16. This gives much more reasonable numbers, with Rake and Rip hovering about 400 (800 crit) at max level and health pools sitting at around 20k.

Puuuh-leeeze.

[Deathquoi]

Puuuh-leeeze.

So then there is literally no sense to be made of your argument that people are immortal at high level PvP unless they are dumb.

[Ishayu]

So then there is literally no sense to be made of your argument that people are immortal at high level PvP unless they are dumb.

U w0t m8?

What I'm saying is that health pools are too large, both relative to damage and healing, but also in an absolute sense.

I want it brought down without touching anything else.

Got it?

EDIT: And no, people aren't immortal in high rated WoD PvP because healing also got nerfed a ton. The action is just hilariously slow.