Opinion from french posters, Mistral warship deal.

[Authary]

Well, I'm french and our government is keeping up with its usual habit of always making the worst possible decision.

Even without that money problem, we're now the guys who can't honor a fucking deal. Everybody will just build their ships (and other stuff) elsewhere from now on. Somewhere they don't "delay" delivery on written, agreed on, already paid international deals.

[Hyve]

The contract was signed and they should deliver on it. This'll just push tensions between the two, and it makes it highly unlikely that Russia will ever order anything to that degree again from France.

Not to mention, I doubt France can afford to not take the money ...

[Deleted]

Read somewhere that analysts have been suggesting to sell these to Japanese.

[Hyve]

Read somewhere that analysts have been suggesting to sell these to Japanese.

They wouldn't be able to just sell them else-where. Russia has designed these, they're not going to let another country get a real insight into their latest designs of military hardware.

Also, Russia has already paid ~$1B for them, so they'd need to reimburse that first, and then sell, still not making a profit.

[Deleted]

They wouldn't be able to just sell them else-where. Russia has designed these, they're not going to let another country get a real insight into their latest designs of military hardware.

Also, Russia has already paid ~$1B for them, so they'd need to reimburse that first, and then sell, still not making a profit.

Except for one of the leading NATO forces that actually built them.

[Delekii]

They wouldn't be able to just sell them else-where. Russia has designed these, they're not going to let another country get a real insight into their latest designs of military hardware.

Also, Russia has already paid ~$1B for them, so they'd need to reimburse that first, and then sell, still not making a profit.

They haven't paid anything, and to stop their shit going elsewhere, they'd have to literally invade Europe.

Nobody who is neutral or against Russia will have any qualms in dealing with the French having made this decision any more than they would have otherwise. Actions that impede Russia will very likely buy France political capital in many spheres.

[Deleted]

Have no illusions, they will sell these to Russia later on when the hassle in the Ukraine is over.

[fumblz]

They haven't paid anything, and to stop their shit going elsewhere, they'd have to literally invade Europe.

Nobody who is neutral or against Russia will have any qualms in dealing with the French having made this decision any more than they would have otherwise. Actions that impede Russia will very likely buy France political capital in many spheres.

That's what iv'e been saying as well. I never understood how they would look bad canceling a deal to a madman who has threatened WW3 to defend his interests.

With NATO having a new purpose, and with Europe increasing their defence budgets I doubt it will be that hard to sell them. Heck, even Japan or south Korea could take them! Japan is building up its military due to the threat from China, and South Korea is as well due to both North Korea and China as well.

and to dispell the rumors, Russia has not paid a dime and will not until they receive the 2nd ship. in 2015 or 2016 I forget.

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Read somewhere that analysts have been suggesting to sell these to Japanese.

They have also said to sell them to A NATO member or even a member of the EU.

[Hyve]

Except for one of the leading NATO forces that actually built them.

Big difference between a nation that's contracted to build it, and it being sold to one though.

[Deleted]

Big difference between a nation that's contracted to build it, and it being sold to one though.

It doesn't matter, whatever secrets were involved in the construction France is now fully aware of and what France knows the rest of NATO knows.

[nextormento]

It doesn't matter, whatever secrets were involved in the construction France is now fully aware of and what France knows the rest of NATO knows.

We are one mind :O

(I thought the tech was french, and Russia was buying the tech along with the ships).

[Yunru]

http://media.defenceindustrydaily.co...rancais_lg.gif

I dont realy see a big deal. Those ships cant realy do any damage.
A single plane can take them out (no AA).
They are just overpriced transport ships with helipads.

Those things would be a much better and cheaper:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Alligator.jpg

[fumblz]

http://media.defenceindustrydaily.co...rancais_lg.gif

I dont realy see a big deal. Those ships cant realy do any damage.
A single plane can take them out (no AA).
They are just overpriced transport ships with helipads.

Those things would be a much better and cheaper:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Alligator.jpg

It wouldn't be such a big deal, if the person they plan on selling it to didn't just annex another country, violate several international laws and make eyebrow raising comments about nukes and how fast they could take the capital of another country.

Their military atm, is still far from being modernized. However, if this deal goes through, it will be a big step into making the russian army a world threat... instead of a regional threat.

[Deleted]

Ahah fumblz is this the kind of discussion you wanted to spark out of this thread? It doesn't matter if France breaks an international deal signed already cause anyway Russia is the bad guy?
how fucking immature is this?

[Zvinny]

I've never really understood the point of Helicarriers. Why not just build a full blown Amphib? America already has Amphibious Readiness Groups which are almost as effective as a full blown Carrier Strike Group.

[Jackmoves]

http://media.defenceindustrydaily.co...rancais_lg.gif

I dont realy see a big deal. Those ships cant realy do any damage.
A single plane can take them out (no AA).
They are just overpriced transport ships with helipads.

Those things would be a much better and cheaper:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Alligator.jpg

Those are in no way comparable, a hovercraft can be lunched from ship to shore, but you can't take a hovercraft around the world, for that you need ships like the Mistral class ships, the same type of ships that you consider overpriced helipads... nor do you got any of the other facilities that an amphibibious assault ship got(hospital for example), the 3 Mistrals that the french navy operate carry two simbad SAM systems btw.

I've never really understood the point of Helicarriers. Why not just build a full blown Amphib? America already has Amphibious Readiness Groups which are almost as effective as a full blown Carrier Strike Group.

What do you mean? The Mistrals are full blown amphibibious assault ships, they are similiar to the amphibibious assault ships the US use in their Amphibious Readiness Groups.

[Zvinny]

Those are in no way comparable, a hovercraft can be lunched from ship to shore, but you can't take a hovercraft around the world, for that you need ships like the Mistral class ships, the same type of ships that you consider overpriced helipads... nor do you got any of the other facilities that an amphibibious assault ship got(hospital for example), the 3 Mistrals that the french navy operate carry two simbad SAM systems btw.



What do you mean? The Mistrals are full blown amphibibious assault ships, they are similiar to the amphibibious assault ships the US use in their Amphibious Readiness Groups.

The only thing they use for air superiority is helicopters though. For comparison, the LHD class America uses carries VTOL jets as well as a large assortment of helicopters, with its marine detachment, and will be supported by DDGs. Just seems silly to build a amphib without guaranteeing air superiority.

[ringpriest]

The only thing they use for air superiority is helicopters though. For comparison, the LHD class America uses carries VTOL jets as well as a large assortment of helicopters, with its marine detachment, and will be supported by DDGs. Just seems silly to build a amphib without guaranteeing air superiority.

It's unlikely the Russians will ever operate them where they wouldn't receive air-cover from land-based airfields.

Because America is separated from much of the rest of the world by two oceans, our history and thinking is strongly shaped by 'sea power'. Russia is the largest nation on Earth and occupies a huge chunk of (Eur)Asia - long distance naval operations simply don't occupy the same place in Russian history and thought. Yes, carriers with capacity for carrying aircraft to operate in the air superiority role are better for distant force projection. But if all the Russians are concerned about is their (huge) periphery, then the amphibs are fine for that role.

And as an aside, the Russian Navy operates MiG-29s, Su-33s, and Su-25s on Admiral Kuznetsov - anyone know if the Mistrals could support any of them?

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Also, the French seem to be making it clear that they want to have their cake and eat it too on the Mistrals.

Speaking at a NATO summit in the UK on Thursday, François Hollande said the Russian procurement contract for two Mistral-class helicopter carriers was not cancelled, but the delivery of the first ship scheduled next month could be delayed. "What are the conditions? A ceasefire and a political settlement," he said. "Today these conditions are not in place."

[fumblz]

Ahah fumblz is this the kind of discussion you wanted to spark out of this thread? It doesn't matter if France breaks an international deal signed already cause anyway Russia is the bad guy?
how fucking immature is this?

No, the discussion I want is about the mistral deal. Which, as you can see, is happening in this thread. I can't help the fact that, like I said, A majority of the people do not agree with your point of view. I did nothing to stop people who have differing opinions post in this thread, so don't act like I did anything.

Immature? Apparently you are/were to blinded by your rage to understand the irony in this. You come into this thread, post nothing constructive, post a personal attack against me...yet i'm the immature one?

[Notchris]

They wouldn't be able to just sell them else-where. Russia has designed these, they're not going to let another country get a real insight into their latest designs of military hardware.

Also, Russia has already paid ~$1B for them, so they'd need to reimburse that first, and then sell, still not making a profit.

What the hell, your all over the place with this and none of it is even remotely factually correct.

They haven't paid for them yet.

Also, the Mistral is a French design that they are willing to sell to other nations. There is nothing Russian designed in them.
That's why many Russians are so wary of the purchase to begin with, the damn things run on a fuel that they themselves do not produce (can't and will not produce last I heard) nor will they be able to produce their own spare parts.

If France were to cancel the sale, it'd be the best thing for Russia as it looks like they're headed for a boondoggle with these ships.