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  1. #61
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post

    And as an aside, the Russian Navy operates MiG-29s, Su-33s, and Su-25s on Admiral Kuznetsov - anyone know if the Mistrals could support any of them?
    Doubt it.

    http://forum.keypublishing.com/showt...tral-class-BPC

    Need to note that F-35`s are smaller than all those MiG`s and Su`s.
    Plus the deck needs some sort of special coating for those hot engines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Descense View Post
    http://media.defenceindustrydaily.co...rancais_lg.gif

    I dont realy see a big deal. Those ships cant realy do any damage.
    A single plane can take them out (no AA).
    They are just overpriced transport ships with helipads.

    Those things would be a much better and cheaper:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Alligator.jpg
    LRASM will take any ship,anywhere down.

  2. #62
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by fumblz View Post
    No, the discussion I want is about the mistral deal. Which, as you can see, is happening in this thread. I can't help the fact that, like I said, A majority of the people do not agree with your point of view. I did nothing to stop people who have differing opinions post in this thread, so don't act like I did anything.

    Immature? Apparently you are/were to blinded by your rage to understand the irony in this. You come into this thread, post nothing constructive, post a personal attack against me...yet i'm the immature one?
    Johnny, you're the one that set the standard and didn't apologize.
    Yes. Your view on the topic is childish.
    "It doesn't matter if France doesn't sell those ships cause anyway many countries hate russia"
    Do you realize how silly this is? The us are after selling 16 billions of stuff to the saudis, UK still sells weapons to Russia, France is about to sell weapons to lebanon, and so on.

    There is no way around it, France decided to bend over under political pressure. This is a first for France who always made their independent foreign policies a matter of great pride.
    In this business there is no place for your views. There's a buyer, a seller, and a contract. That's it.

  3. #63
    Deleted
    France should sell the Ships.

    The fact of the matter is these Ships will never be used against NATO or any Developed Western Armies. They will more then likely Rust in a few years time along with the abandoned Soviet Navy Vessels and maybe be used for Russian Sabre Rattling.

    In the meantime, they will provide Work and Wealth to France.

    1. Russia is not able to produce the replacement parts. They will be forced to buy it from France. Military Equipment goes through replacement parts, like a Chainsaw through butter.

    2. Crew trainning. Again will provide Wealth to France.

    3. Fuel. Russia is not able to produce the fuel needed for these ships. They have to buy this special fuel. So even if the fear mongers are somehow right and Russia invades Europe. After a while they will be only be moved via Sails and Rowing.

  4. #64
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kotutha View Post
    France should sell the Ships.
    Fuck the ships, in case of warfare they`ll be taken care of in matter of hours - its the know-how,intel (limited) transfer to Russia.
    This will give their shipbuilding industry boost that isnt marginal at all.

  5. #65
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Koini View Post
    Fuck the ships, in case of warfare they`ll be taken care of in matter of hours - its the know-how,intel (limited) transfer to Russia.
    This will give their shipbuilding industry boost that isnt marginal at all.
    Yeah it's not that easy when you have contracts signed. Hence why France only suspended and didn't stop the sale from happening. France isn't really in the condition to allow that to happen. Plus Hollande will collapse soon enough so who know what will happen.

  6. #66
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Yeah it's not that easy when you have contracts signed. Hence why France only suspended and didn't stop the sale from happening. France isn't really in the condition to allow that to happen. Plus Hollande will collapse soon enough so who know what will happen.
    If the ships will be docked in Crimea and Vladivostok (as it is planned), I dont care about them that much.
    If they`ll be docked in St.Petersburgh or Kaliningrad...fuck that - arm Poland and us with LRASM missiles for shits and giggles.
    Last edited by mmoc473526390f; 2014-09-05 at 11:00 AM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Johnny, you're the one that set the standard and didn't apologize.
    Yes. Your view on the topic is childish.
    "It doesn't matter if France doesn't sell those ships cause anyway many countries hate russia"
    Do you realize how silly this is? The us are after selling 16 billions of stuff to the saudis, UK still sells weapons to Russia, France is about to sell weapons to lebanon, and so on.

    There is no way around it, France decided to bend over under political pressure. This is a first for France who always made their independent foreign policies a matter of great pride.
    In this business there is no place for your views. There's a buyer, a seller, and a contract. That's it.
    Johnny? Who the fuck is Johnny? My view is not childish, it is how I view Russia as an untrustworthy person to sell a warship to. Stop with the bullshit that I think Russia is evil, I have nothing against the citizens (mostly) just putin and his cronies he's looking out for.

    Again, you come in here, insult me and talk to me in a condescending matter making you out to be child here... not me.

    The difference between Russia and Saudis, is that Saudi Arabia didn't just annex a part of another country nor have they threatened to use nukes to protect their interest. I understand Saudi Arabia has a lot of shit going on in it's homeland, but it's nothing compared to whats been going on in Ukraine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kotutha View Post
    France should sell the Ships.

    The fact of the matter is these Ships will never be used against NATO or any Developed Western Armies. They will more then likely Rust in a few years time along with the abandoned Soviet Navy Vessels and maybe be used for Russian Sabre Rattling.

    In the meantime, they will provide Work and Wealth to France.

    1. Russia is not able to produce the replacement parts. They will be forced to buy it from France. Military Equipment goes through replacement parts, like a Chainsaw through butter.

    2. Crew trainning. Again will provide Wealth to France.

    3. Fuel. Russia is not able to produce the fuel needed for these ships. They have to buy this special fuel. So even if the fear mongers are somehow right and Russia invades Europe. After a while they will be only be moved via Sails and Rowing.
    Seriously? The ships take fuel the Russians cannot (possibly will not) make? I don't see how that is a smart buy for them considering whoever supplies the fuel could cut them off and leave the ships 2 very expensive sitting ducks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saah View Post
    Currently in Russia there is too much freedom, you can freely do things, that would cause you be arrested in USA.

  8. #68
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by fumblz View Post
    Johnny? Who the fuck is Johnny? My view is not childish, it is how I view Russia as an untrustworthy person to sell a warship to. Stop with the bullshit that I think Russia is evil, I have nothing against the citizens (mostly) just putin and his cronies he's looking out for.

    Again, you come in here, insult me and talk to me in a condescending matter making you out to be child here... not me.

    The difference between Russia and Saudis, is that Saudi Arabia didn't just annex a part of another country nor have they threatened to use nukes to protect their interest. I understand Saudi Arabia has a lot of shit going on in it's homeland, but it's nothing compared to whats been going on in Ukraine.

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    Seriously? The ships take fuel the Russians cannot (possibly will not) make? I don't see how that is a smart buy for them considering whoever supplies the fuel could cut them off and leave the ships 2 very expensive sitting ducks.
    Again. You set up the fiery tones in this discussion with your unrelated offensive remark and didn't even apologize.

    What would make Russia untrustworthy in the arms trade?
    I tell you there are two things that make a nation untrustworthy in the arms trade.
    Not paying.
    not delivering.

    rest is politics and does not affect arms trade.

    I won't even comment on your absurd opinions on Saudi Arabia.
    It's my fault for engaging with people that aren't actually interested in this.

  9. #69
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by fumblz View Post
    Seriously? The ships take fuel the Russians cannot (possibly will not) make? I don't see how that is a smart buy for them considering whoever supplies the fuel could cut them off and leave the ships 2 very expensive sitting ducks.
    http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20130...Deputy-PM.html
    MOSCOW, February 5 (RIA Novosti) - Russia does not produce the type of fuel necessary for the French-made Mistral-class amphibious assault vessels it has ordered, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said Tuesday.

    The Mistral class are powered by electric motors supplied by diesel-powered turbogenerators, according to naval-technology.com. Diesel fuel can suffer from a condition known as waxing or gelling in cold conditions, causing it to clog up fuel injection systems, naval systems engineers say. The condition can be corrected by use of certain chemical additives, or pre-heating the fuel, as is done in some cars.

    “Probably, our chemists will prepare some special additives to solve this problem,” Rogozin, who oversees Russia’s military industry, told reporters on Tuesday. In January, Rogozin criticized the 1.2 billion euro deal to buy the ships, saying they would not be able to operate in cold weather, but did not then specify the reason.

    The problem probably arose because Europe uses slightly different, cleaner diesel than Russian marine diesels, said an oil refinery engineer in London who spoke to RIA Novosti on condition of anonymity.

    “The Russians could probably make the right grade fuel at a refinery of theirs somewhere, but then you have the problem of specially transporting and storing it,” he said. “You couldn’t just stick that fuel in the existing storage system and expect it to be clean.”

    Using Russian-made fuel in the Mistrals might possibly cause minor damage over long periods, or invalidate the engines’ warranties, he said.

    Specialists from both countries will discuss issues concerning the Mistral ships, including the fuel problem, during bilateral military talks to be held on February 14-15.

    Rogozin said insufficient scientific advice had been taken in Russia prior to the latest decisions about purchases of arms and military equipment. “The devil is in the detail, so now we are looking into the problems that we might face when using those ships,” Rogozin said.
    Once (if) they are delivered, I hope they are on 24/7 target watchlist for NATO and LRASM missile ready for the two - for the sake of it.

    Hope is that after the delivery the frenchies,when russians will ask for help,will try to play smart and do a few backstabs and just fuck around with them for lols.
    Last edited by mmoc473526390f; 2014-09-05 at 06:44 PM.

  10. #70
    Deleted
    If France really needs the money they can just sell the ships to other NATO members.

  11. #71
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Undead Puppy View Post
    If France really needs the money they can just sell the ships to other NATO members.
    Japan which is re-arming itself in great haste could be a great buyer.
    Rest have their own/can build their own,Turkey ordered Juan Carlos I (L61) class.

    Another option is some sort of pure alliance group - ''NATO aircraft'', people from selected countries put together,same with equipment etc.
    Not sure how that would play out logistically and otherwise but some sort of group that wouldnt be associated to any country but just ''NATO''.
    That is,NATO as whole buys the ships and every member proportionally contributes to the payment.

  12. #72
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Ah good, the arguing is finally over.

    I totally understand the decision not to sell it to them, would be more surprised if they actually went through with it. One of the few correct decisions that Hollande has made, I'm still angry at him for not signing complete control of the country over to Merkel the day he got into office and walked off into the sunset with her. Country would be in a far better state and far right groups led by the likes of Marine Le Pen wouldn't have gained such traction.

    Deferring makes the most sense, they couldn't sell them but had to do something - at least this way they buy time.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
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    Also a vegetable is a person.
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  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Ah good, the arguing is finally over.

    I totally understand the decision not to sell it to them, would be more surprised if they actually went through with it. One of the few correct decisions that Hollande has made, I'm still angry at him for not signing complete control of the country over to Merkel the day he got into office and walked off into the sunset with her. Country would be in a far better state and far right groups led by the likes of Marine Le Pen wouldn't have gained such traction.

    Deferring makes the most sense, they couldn't sell them but had to do something - at least this way they buy time.
    It wasn't much of an argument to begin with :P.

    TBF, I can understand and sympathize withe the French on this deal. Their economy is in the shitter, and they want whats best for their country and it's people; which is to go through with this deal and take the money.

    However, at the same time, they are arming a country which is becoming more of a global threat and unstable as a partner. It's 2 heli-carrier warships being added to a decrepit, almost non-existing navy.. but they are still giving them modern day military equipment that can (and most likely will be) used to further antagonize and threaten former russian satellite states.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saah View Post
    Currently in Russia there is too much freedom, you can freely do things, that would cause you be arrested in USA.

  14. #74
    Why we must deliver these ships :

    - We need cash and work for the future, last time I check the government failed again to make an even budget
    - We have a contract, if you can't rely on a contract partner, what kind of trust can you have with a country ?
    - Those ships are hardly a threat for anyone, really, "Made in France" guys... It's a cool commanding ship with helicopter landing pads.
    - They are half russian made, will we pay Russia for 2*half a ship we did not deliver ? Not with my taxes !
    - Hollande has balls when he sends troops in Africa to shoot unarmed "terrorists", or when he drives in Paris on a scooter to get a blowjob from a bad actress, but when Obama calls him and says "François, could you tell Vladimir to fuck himself ?" he stops a military delivery in the hour...
    - If we don't sell weapons, others will, I prefer cash in my country

  15. #75
    Deleted
    I think everyone overestimates the influence US has, especially Obamas in internal affairs of countries like France.

  16. #76
    Hmm... so far that makes 3 French posters who want to go ahead with the deal. It seems like (at least on this board) that the French do want to go ahead with the deal, regardless of who it's shipped to.

    I can respect the fact that they want what is best for their country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saah View Post
    Currently in Russia there is too much freedom, you can freely do things, that would cause you be arrested in USA.

  17. #77
    Well, Im no French, but at last France did something right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koini View Post
    I think everyone overestimates the influence US has, especially Obamas in internal affairs of countries like France.
    What do you mean? Arent there CIA spies under all beds and all leaders in the world are on USA's payrolls?

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Koini View Post
    I think everyone overestimates the influence US has, especially Obamas in internal affairs of countries like France.
    Iraq showed this with France.

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