Do you think Raid content should be a reward for Raiders and not casuals?

[Graeham]

Wildstar tried to make raiding into a very exclusive affair and the backlash was overwhelmingly negative. It'd be a very silly move for Blizzard to go down such a route when they cater to bother high end and low end raiding on a pretty decent level. If someone wants to simply experience the lore and atmosphere of a raid then they're able to do so. If someone wants to experience an incredibly challenge then there's plenty of difficult achievements and a high end raid mode to indulge in.

More people need to care less about what those less driven than themselves are getting out of raiding. It should be largely irrelevant and if you're simply raiding for bragging rights then you should reconsider for the sake of generally just being a better person.

[markdall]

Do you think that Raid content should be a reward for dedicated Raiders and not for the Casual player? If raid content were not accessible to casual players would that make raid content more of a reward for you as a raider?

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Why? So raiders (I'm 14/14h 10 man, personally) can afk at the mailbox with their gear and mount?

You know what I'm doing right now? I'm queued for LFR on an alt. for fun. Does that bother you? It really, truly shouldn't.

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So no effort beyond paying a sub fee should be required to achieve things in this game?

Yes, clearly that's what all us no-voters mean. Thank you for representing our side of things so well.

[melodramocracy]

Yes, clearly that's what all us no-voters mean. Thank you for representing our side of things so well.

I'm not representing your side of anything, merely wondering what the point of the statement is. Some folks seem to feel that a sub fee should grant more than just access to servers, but they're not very specific beyond that.

[markdall]

Sure, but I never actually see anyone asking for that.

Generally the discussion revolves around two groups. One demanding that "Raiding" be sacred somehow and only they be allowed to do it because those filthy casuals don't "deserve" it, and the other group wondering how that even makes sense and asking why they wouldn't just take their money elsewhere if they can't even TRY the content in the game they're paying for.

The entire discussion always feels silly to me, I don't understand the desire to prevent other players from even seeing or trying the content.

There are still people who remember when only the most elite players had even a single epic piece of gear. Some people yearn for those days to return. I don't know if they have nothing else in their life to be proud of, or what.

[Xkiller9000]

You should only be allowed to do the new raid by completing normal mode of the last tiers raids

[markdall]

I'm not representing your side of anything, merely wondering what the point of the statement is. Some folks seem to feel that a sub fee should grant more than just access to servers, but they're not very specific beyond that.

I think people should have access to the stuff they have access to right now - including LFRs.

[Dilbon]

There are still people who remember when only the most elite players had even a single epic piece of gear. Some people yearn for those days to return. I don't know if they have nothing else in their life to be proud of, or what.

It's because an online game is the only place where everyone starts equal and anyone can achieve rare and exclusive things if one just works hard for it. Others getting shinies for less ruins it, there's enough of that in real life.

[markdall]

You should only be allowed to do the new raid by completing normal mode of the last tiers raids

Why?

Also, I think you're short-sighted, because - at least on my server - there are no meaningful accomplishments. By which I mean you can literally buy 14/14 heroic runs, 9/9 challenge mode runs, and... some kind of uber PVP thing that I'm not sure if it's the best thing or what... runs. So all your new ruled would accomplish would be to have people get bored and quit sooner or buy runs to get to the next tier.

All in all it would be a bad business decision for Blizzard.

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It's because an online game is the only place where everyone starts equal and anyone can achieve rare and exclusive things if one just works hard for it. Others getting shinies for less ruins it, there's enough of that in real life.

I'm not sure what server you play on but I play on Area 52 and rich people can easily buy all the shinies here that they want including full SoO heroic 25 clears.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Also my hands tremble slightly and it took me forever to be able to help my guild get past heroic siegecrafter because I had to do belts.. Others might not have to work as hard as I did. So no, we're not all equal in a video game. Man you sound young.

[Dilbon]

Sorry to burst your bubble.

That bubble was already burst years ago.

[Titheon]

Only Raiding should earn Raid Gear.
Also, exclusive content should only be viewed by raiding accomplishments.
For example, Attunements solved this issue.

[dontknowdoya]

/10charmintopost

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjoMQJf5vKI

Infracted. Removed the video coding as well.

[Dormie]

End game raids should be only Flex and up. LFR should have it's own dungeons. 5 man heroics for gearing up to LFR. 5 man normals for leveling and newly dinged gearing. Done. It's so simple.

If people really can't be bothered to join a flex to see end game raids, then it's their own fault.

[Barnabas]

To answer the OP's rhetorical question I think anyone that feels like playing the game to raid should be allowed to.

[Aleks0410]

Why is it "less exciting" that someone, somewhere, is doing Easy Mode versions of something similar to what you're doing?

It's just very strange to me that so many people are hung up on this idea that what other people do - even when it's vastly inferior and gives crap for rewards - somehow ruins what they're doing.

This thinking seems unique to MMOs, too. (I could guess why, but people might get insulted) I don't see people playing other games getting mad because an "Easy Mode" for that game exists. Or even outside of gaming, I don't see champion boxers getting mad that amateur boxers exist.

To me, it seems like a very strange way of thinking. It reeks of insecurity and wanting game developers to enforce some sort of standard that - not so surprisingly - always ends up revolving around exactly the level of content that the complaining party is doing.

Seriously, isn't just being more accomplished or more progressed enough for you? Why do you need to also make sure that others are negatively impacted before you feel "good"?



Woah, crazy talk!

Can you be adult for one second and not throw out accusations because you don't want to look bad on the internet. Don't sink to Rahulk's level. Lets have a discussion withouth trash talk now..

It's less exciting cus before, you needed to put efford into completing a raid. Now people who has no clue what they are doing get to kill the end boss. Small green letters on the gear doesn't change that. Not for me. Think there's a lot more people out there who don't want to admit it but feel the same way. Probably afraid they'll instantly be placed in the "snowflake box" which is understandable.

If you can't see that raiding is less exciting when every bad player on the server gets to see what you do, then we might have to agree to disagree.

[fixx]

Can you be adult for one second and not throw out accusations because you don't want to look bad on the internet. Don't sink to Rahulk's level. Lets have a discussion withouth trash talk now..

It's less exciting cus before, you needed to put efford into completing a raid. Now people who has no clue what they are doing get to kill the end boss. Small green letters on the gear doesn't change that. Not for me. Think there's a lot more people out there who don't want to admit it but feel the same way. Probably afraid they'll instantly be placed in the "snowflake box" which is understandable.

If you can't see that raiding is less exciting when every bad player on the server gets to see what you do, then we might have to agree to disagree.

It's rather ironic you want to be adult about the subject, and then proceed to saying segregation is good. The further you can segregate yourself from the unwashed masses the better. Yeah... That's really adult way at looking into things.

Every level headed adult knows there's a difference between 6th division local match of soccer and world cup finals even if it's the same game played on same grass field and winner getting a trophy. I'm pretty sure those players of German national team feel quite a lot more accomplished than some random team from a random city nobody has ever heard of.

Basically what you're suggesting for WoW is that nobody below national champions level are even allowed to touch the ball and enjoy the game for what it is at their level of play. Does that sound like adult way of handling things? No, it sounds like special snowflake syndrome.

[Deleted]

Trouble is raid content and story go hand in hand.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure what server you play on but I play on Area 52 and rich people can easily buy all the shinies here that they want including full SoO heroic 25 clears..

Indeed. Gold can earn you pretty much everything in WoW without setting a single step into a raid with a "normal" raid group.

[Dilbon]

Only Raiding should earn Raid Gear.
Also, exclusive content should only be viewed by raiding accomplishments.
For example, Attunements solved this issue.

Wildstar invites you to play.

[Vash The Stampede]

To answer the OP's rhetorical question I think anyone that feels like playing the game to raid should be allowed to.

I think this topic is more about LFR and not so much about flex, normal, and heroic. Cause with LFR you get to see the content without actually putting any effort. The queue time is the hardest part of doing LFR.

[Kelimbror]

Content should never be a reward. Rewards should be rewards.