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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Who's going to voluntarily choose less damage would be more accurate...
    Yeah, like that was remotely the case with KJC on most fights.

  2. #262
    It's a hunter only thing, when they gave multiple ranged the ability to move while dps'ing it wasn't unique anymore, AND, the casters who can't move and cast generally do more damage than hunters ever will.

    The price for moving and fighting is that we do less raw damage.
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  3. #263
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willoughby View Post
    Yeah, like that was remotely the case with KJC on most fights.
    KJC offered more dps on most fights because the tier was never a significant dps increase like say, the grimoire tier was. If KJC was on the grimoire tier what would happen? Oh right, it would barely be taken at all if ever. The level 90 talent was "situational damage increases", which is exactly why KJC was good, it wasn't situational it was near constant compared to 2 shitty talents in most situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    The level 90 talent was "situational damage increases", which is exactly why KJC was good, it wasn't situational it was near constant compared to 2 shitty talents in most situations.
    That's exactly the thing though. When, except for the extremely rare patchwerk fight, can freedom of movement ever be considered situational?

    How would they even balance these two completely opposite things well enough to even call it a choice?

  5. #265
    Mechagnome MetroStratics's Avatar
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    This was already addressed. Its because hunters aren't considered a caster. They are essentially a melee dps that doesn't need to stand in melee.
    Cast while moving elsewhere really effects the game.
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  6. #266
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willoughby View Post
    That's exactly the thing though. When, except for the extremely rare patchwerk fight, can freedom of movement ever be considered situational?

    How would they even balance these two completely opposite things well enough to even call it a choice?
    When it's verse a universal dps increase it will lose against all but most the mobility heavy fights, as I explained. If it was against grimoires everyone would take grimoires.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Whoopdedoo, Hunters still arent topping the charts even though that is the case, whats more, even on mobility fights they dont bring much in terms of raid utility. (not to mention that isnt even the fault of Hunters, thats on Blizzards raid dev team)
    Hunters bring Heroism/BL, combat res, snare remove, magic & enrage dispel, CC, interrupt, a tank CD (RoS), all the raid buffs in the game, all class debuffs in the game, Aspect of the Fox (raid wide spellcast while moving) and they can kite stuff forever & survive pretty much everything with Deterrence & Feign Death.

    In what way hunters don't bring much in terms of raid utility?

    OT: Hunters were always the mobile ranged class. Casters are meant to stand and cast, that's how the game worked for years, and having everyone just running around is not what Blizz have in mind.
    Even now the only true mobile casters are shamans & warlocks, and they can only cast their filler spells while moving. In order to maintain high DPS even shamans & warlocks need to stand still and cast.

  8. #268
    Epic! Lime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinlea View Post
    "Hunters aren’t casters, so they will still be able to cast many things while moving. If there is a fight with no movement, Hunters won’t do as well, but there aren’t really many (or any) fights with no movement." - source (Warlords of Draenor Class Changes, 6th point).
    Ah, thanks a lot. Saves me a lot of time.

    Regardless, I'm not sure that's good design. But thats due to almost every encounter in PvE and PvP will require movement. If there aren't any "stationary" encounters, then that disadvantage is completely negated which gives Hunters the best of both worlds.

    In movement heavy fights, they would be superior and in stationary fights, they be subpar? Idk, but that sounds horrible to me.
    Last edited by Lime; 2014-08-31 at 08:01 PM.

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  9. #269
    Stood in the Fire axiom's Avatar
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    a hunter uses a weapon like a melee. why should he not move while using it? a caster needs to concentrate to cast a spell cause he uses cracy magic stuff
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  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Willoughby View Post
    That's exactly the thing though. When, except for the extremely rare patchwerk fight, can freedom of movement ever be considered situational?

    How would they even balance these two completely opposite things well enough to even call it a choice?
    Simply by providing a talent that will, on average, equal out to a similar amount of stationary damage as a mobility talent across a given raid tier. If you spend, say, ~20% of each fight moving, then a class with zero mobile DPS would need to have their stationary DPS increased by ~20% to make up for it. That's a very basic example, and the optimal talent would vary from fight to fight regardless of tuning, but that's always going to be the case for anyone who likes to min/max to that degree.

    It's really not a difficult design choice to put into practice, especially considering how it's *exactly* what they're doing with hunters and Focusing Shot in WoD. The devs clearly see the merit to it and feel confident that it can be balanced, so why can't this same philosophy be applied to casters?

    Liked turreting in TBC? Great! Here's a talent that makes you blow things up hard while you're standing still! Preferred the freedom of movement you had in MoP? Well, not to worry! Here's a talent that lets you move around a bit more!
    Choice is a great thing to have.

  11. #271

  12. #272
    Herald of the Titans shoc's Avatar
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    People complained about class homogenization. Then complains when a class gets something unique.
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  13. #273
    The Patient Daethz's Avatar
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    because hunters have no defensive's (compared to other classes) and only one spell to escape, being disengage?
    Plus the casted spells are generally weaker?

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Daethz View Post
    because hunters have no defensive's (compared to other classes) and only one spell to escape, being disengage?
    Plus the casted spells are generally weaker?
    Double deterrence isn't a defensive. Mages have one "escape" spell too, being blink.

    I also find it hilarious that som any people talk as if hunters lacked burst, if you go pvp they are among the most dangerous bursters in the game, not withstanding the two seasons were BM hunters could pretty much global people with zoo.

    Edit: And I say pretty much on globalling because during the 2nd season it would require one more attack too but during the entire first season you had people pop zoo with spirit beast and globalling healers. Was great gameplay.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Snes View Post
    Hunters have to spam casted weak steady/cobra shots to recover focus, giving the opponent some time to breathe. They are also partially balanced around the fact they have autoshots.

    Casters start off with a full mana bar that never runs out.
    Shadow Priests have to build up Shadow Orbs to be able to CC and DPS. Hunters start with full resources.
    Shadow priest starts with no shadow orbs but full mana. Allowing the hunter to go full nuke on the priest. And the priest can't even disarm him until he casts a mind blast.
    Hunters right now are indeed OP. They can't be ranged, have everything instant/full mobility, awesome CC and on top of that being competetive in dmg and burst. They need some weakness.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Each class should feel different, and hunters began to feel like a mage. that is not what they were suppost to be.
    This. Fuck all of the homogenization. They need to get back to class niches.
    Perfect example of why "community" forums are poisonous to the health of a development team. These developers are wasting hundreds of hours trying to stem the tide of incessant bitchery that would never, ever abate so long as these entitled, unfortunate human beings don't get their way.

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