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  1. #81
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Part of the reason Ulduar is on a pedestal is that it was way too quickly replaced by ToC which was garbage in comparison.
    there is some truth to this. It was one of the most "rushed" to replace tiers ever. However, it also had great fights and a great atmosphere. It's probably one of the best raids they've done for that reason alone.
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  2. #82
    Herald of the Titans Sibut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Diverse how every tier is full of diverse bosses. Arguably ToT and T11 are far more diverse than Ulduar.

    I'm a firm believer that Ulduar was not the end all be all. People hold it to a pedestal when the place had like 3 memorable encounters. About the average for most raid tiers.
    I'm getting the feeling that you weren't actually raiding it when it was current, and just came in for T11. And there's no shame in that, a lot of people remember their first raid tier fondly!
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  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by sibut View Post
    I'm getting the feeling that you weren't actually raiding it when it was current, and just came in for T11. And there's no shame in that, a lot of people remember their first raid tier fondly!
    +1!
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  4. #84
    Ulduar itself was too long. Other than that, it was a good raid. But, I guess we have the length of ulduar for the modern lockout system.

  5. #85
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    You're part of a very small group then, Ulduar was widely praised as far as raids go.

  6. #86
    I didn´t like the beginning with the vehicles and all (like so many others out there) but other than that it was a good raid

  7. #87
    Scarab Lord Sesto's Avatar
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    No, you're not. It's vastly overrated. Just like WoTLK in general.

  8. #88
    Amazing raid!

    There are only three raids in the history of WoW that I felt a sense of awe when we were first in them.

    1. Ulduar
    2. Karazhan
    3. MC (mainly b/c this was my first raiding experience in vanilla)

    I remember knocking out the first 4 bosses in Ulduar and entering into the building for the first time on the way to Kolo and just thinking about how amazing this place was. The artwork, lore, everything building up to it with 5-mans and leveling zones. Absolutely without a doubt a great raid.




    Gotta love all the people who claim "nostalgia" anytime someone likes something that's not current. Or "boss mechanics weren't that great". Etc etc. Guess what?!!! Just b/c someone likes something more that existed previously doesn't mean it's nostalgia. If that were the case then every single one of you claiming today's raids are the greatest are already wrong b/c there will be another expansion and in several months you will have to backtrack b/c all of MoP will be nostalgia. I bet a good portion of those who claim nostalgia didn't even play during some of these older xpacks and just want to make themselves feel better about what they've experienced. There is nothing wrong with thinking older raids are better. In case you haven't noticed a lot of people vote for Ulduar/Kara for raids and a lot vote for TBC/Wrath for expansions. Do you seriously think that's all nostalgia?!!! If so, you lack the ability to reach outside your own opinions and you might as well forget what you just read.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    That's really all there is to say about you. I'm sure that deep inside you're not deluded enough to truly believe any of this has to do with objectivity. You really do not have any "objective" measurements for what makes a good raid and what doesn't. I mean, I'd love to see you make that list, but no. You can lie to yourself and/or us and try to chalk it up to certain factors like they're scientifically "measurable" to help silence the voice in the back of your head that keeps pestering you with 'pst you still don't have an argument', but we're not doing algebra, it's not as easy as you pretend it to be. It's nothing but you using your opinions as truth, trying for some reason to convince people that, no, even though they liked Ulduar when it was current and they still like it, they're wrong, they really don't like it. Because you decide what people like and don't like. Because that's how opinions and memories work. Because you're the expert on them, all these people you don't even know remotely. A prime case of that faux unshakeable hipster ignorance.
    Here's bit of objectivity to you, something you can measure with basic algebra:

    1) Ulduar had the biggest number of mistuned bosses in any one raid (Ignis as second boss in the instance way too hard, possible to hit hard mode by accident on XT, Mimiron trash that took hours to clear, "mathematically impossible" endboss, Auriya, Throim, Hodir and Kologarn one-shot by all serious 25man raiding guilds).

    2) Ulduar also had the biggest number of bugged/exploited bosses in any one raid (FL room exploits along with thousands of people banned because of it, flower power, possibility of accidentially or "accidentially" activating hard mode on FL in pugs and as a cherry on top evade bugged world first kill of YS+0)

    3) Ulduar had the biggest number of forum complaints ever against one single raid boss (Flame Leviathan, because people didn't like vehicles and least of all they liked bugged vehicles)

    Because of all those listed problems that factually did exist in Ulduar, and not just in some nostalgia-addled subjective rants, I can't honestly say that Ulduar was perfect. I can't even say it was best raid. Neither it was even best raid in the expansion (ICC was). It's very much overrated.

    edit:
    As an interesting side by side comparison the next tier ToC had perfect tuning where difficulty ramped up linear, only one big exploit (doorway for valkyrs) and zero bugs.
    Last edited by fixx; 2014-08-30 at 10:18 PM.

  10. #90
    Ulduar is one of the best, or the best imo.
    Other honorable mentions would be Kara, AQ40, SSC, BT and MSV.

  11. #91
    Ulduar is incredible, and my second favorite raid only behind ICC. Karazhan is 3rd. I really loved all the rooms from Mimiron, Freya and all. They had a whole different theme that fits them the best. And the hard modes were interesting, its obvious that a lot of work has been put into this raid.

  12. #92
    I like ulduar pretty well, I think what i liked most about it though was that it wasn't linear, you could choose at quite a few spots of which boss you wanted to do.

  13. #93
    I personally LOVE - like LOVEDDDD - the encounter model where you do X do force the battle into hard mode. '

    Killing the heart, or being "nah keepers, we got dis" is far more memorable then right clicking the menu and picking "heroic".

  14. #94
    Scarab Lord Azutael's Avatar
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    I liked Ulduar a lot, but it's not the best raid ever for me.

  15. #95
    Ulduar is the reason why I stopped raiding. I didn't like the whole gimmick of hardmodes (and still don't).

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by fixx View Post
    YS was false ending. It had nothing to do with Storm Peaks or Ulduar.
    Other way around. You still haven't realized that Ulduar exists because of Yogg-Saron. It was built as his prison. There are hints of Yogg-Saron's influence throughout several questlines. In Grizzly Hills you have quests investigating ancient, underground corruption; in Howling Fjord a group of archaeologists digging in a chasm is driven mad by mysterious whispers. These are without doubt caused by Yogg-Saron. And Yogg-Saron is also present all over Northrend: the metal saronite is literally his dried-up blood.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Marema View Post
    Ulduar is the reason why I stopped raiding. I didn't like the whole gimmick of hardmodes (and still don't).
    You like the "heroic" setting which is pretty much just more unavoidable AoE damage? Simple, shallow minds...

  17. #97
    Yes. Why? That giant underground train ride.
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  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Gahmuret View Post
    You like the "heroic" setting which is pretty much just more unavoidable AoE damage? Simple, shallow minds...
    Where did I say I like heroic? Talk about simple, shallow minds! Learn to comprehend English.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by diddle View Post
    Maybe it's because I'm not a fan of the whole titan/steampunk/dwarf/gnome setting. I don't know, I was just never very into it and people talk about it like it was a golden age...
    Yep. You were pretty much it.

  20. #100
    Scarab Lord foxHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixx View Post
    Here's bit of objectivity to you, something you can measure with basic algebra:

    1) Ulduar had the biggest number of mistuned bosses in any one raid (Ignis as second boss in the instance way too hard, possible to hit hard mode by accident on XT, Mimiron trash that took hours to clear, "mathematically impossible" endboss, Auriya, Throim, Hodir and Kologarn one-shot by all serious 25man raiding guilds).
    Needs citation? Fuck it, who am I kidding. Also, even if it were true? Oh, man. Some bosses are over-tuned. Still a great raid with a great atmosphere, which is what people love about it. Never mind absurdly over-tuned bosses like Kaelthas or C'thun (who was considered mathematically impossible to kill because of dps requirements).
    2) Ulduar also had the biggest number of bugged/exploited bosses in any one raid (FL room exploits along with thousands of people banned because of it, flower power, possibility of accidentially or "accidentially" activating hard mode on FL in pugs and as a cherry on top evade bugged world first kill of YS+0)
    First line. Citation needed. But oh, man. Flame Leviathan bugged. Worst raid ever. And I guess ICC is equally shitty because the world first heroic LK kill was actually achieved by engineer exploits? No? Oh, I guess ICC gets a free pass because everyone hates on it already and hating what everyone else hates isn't as satisfying or validating. But it's not even a point, because not everyone was scummy enough to exploit. Many, many people did things the right way. How does another raid full of cheaters have any impact on my enjoyment of the content...?


    3) Ulduar had the biggest number of forum complaints ever against one single raid boss (Flame Leviathan, because people didn't like vehicles and least of all they liked bugged vehicles)
    Citation needed. I love how you pull these statistics straight out of your ass. It's impressive that you have all these "facts" and your head all crammed up inside there at once.

    Because of all those listed problems that factually did exist in Ulduar, and not just in some nostalgia-addled subjective rants, I can't honestly say that Ulduar was perfect. I can't even say it was best raid. Neither it was even best raid in the expansion (ICC was). It's very much overrated.
    I'm not sure you can honestly say anything that's not fallacious tripe. Yes, it had bugs. Yes, there were some exploits. That's a fact. Something that is also a fact, and is more important than anything and essentially the heart of the issue here, is that in spite of these faults, it had a great atmosphere, interesting boss mechanics, lots of lore, and difficult fights. And it has nothing to do with nostalgia. People genuinely and sincerely love that raid in spite of all your preachy nonsense. And that just makes you crazy. Why? Address that "objectively". Or don't.
    edit:
    As an interesting side by side comparison the next tier ToC had perfect tuning where difficulty ramped up linear, only one big exploit (doorway for valkyrs) and zero bugs.
    There you go again, using an abstract word like perfect. Perfect only exists in your head because you're trying to force it into existence to prove a flimsy non-point. It doesn't exist "objectively". Know what else ToC had that was 'perfect'? Utterly retarded gating. You came in the first week, killed beasts...and were literally done that week. Such joy, wow gated, very limited. But hey, you got two next week. Best raid evar. 10/10
    Last edited by foxHeart; 2014-08-31 at 04:34 AM.
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