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  1. #101
    Honestly out of the four raids in WotLK, I felt Ulduar had the worst encounter design. And not by a small margin, either. It was basically a ranged caster love fest where melee were relegated to interrupt bots and waterboys for their finger-twiddling masters. Didn't help that melee not named "Death Knight" were borderline if not totally shit tier in terms of class balance at the time (Arms was more viable than Fury... let that sink in for a moment), oh and DKs were also the only tanks because every other fight was "OK, soak this massive magic damage on a fixed timer!"

    That said, I was willing to forgive a lot of its shortcomings because the art was really top-notch. Lots of unique boss models, "Steampunk TRON" architecture, items made out of stars (well, not as cool as the ones in Guild Wars). Some items that are still NPC-only that I really wish I could get, like the 2H sword the Vrykul guys use. Also gave us the first Voltron reference in WoW and the "I REMEMBER YOU... IN THE MOUNTAINS..." meme, good stuff.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    Needs citation?
    Yes, almost all raids had serious problems here and there, but nowhere is a bigger collection of issues than Ulduar. Now use your brain for once in your life and come up with an example of one raid that had more tuning problems, bugs and exploits than Ulduar.

    I'm waiting. Probably forever since you can't.

  3. #103
    Pandaren Monk taliey's Avatar
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    Bashing Ulduar?

    Good luck.
    Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. - Gandhi

    We could live life without understanding the full scope and magnitude of the consequences of our actions - and that's the beauty of it. It is up to us to take responsibility for our actions, and to do what is best, that is completely within the course of our actions.

  4. #104
    Steampunk? Just cause there's some steam engines it's not a fucking steampunk raid ffs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by diddle View Post
    Maybe it's because I'm not a fan of the whole titan/steampunk/dwarf/gnome setting. I don't know, I was just never very into it and people talk about it like it was a golden age...
    And compared to this expansion's raids, it was a golden age.

  5. #105
    Scarab Lord foxHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixx View Post
    Yes, almost all raids had serious problems here and there, but nowhere is a bigger collection of issues than Ulduar. Now use your brain for once in your life and come up with an example of one raid that had more tuning problems, bugs and exploits than Ulduar.

    I'm waiting. Probably forever since you can't.
    That's okay. Shy away even attempting to answer anything regarding the original argument. Make it about something else.

    But I'll humor you, though the problems you accuse Ulduar of having are not nearly as bad as you make them out to be. Sure, it has lots of little issues, but if you want to get down to the nitty-gritty of it, the severity of issues counts much, much more than the number. You know who Vaelastrasz is? The second boss in BWL. He was a guild killer all by his lonesome. Google his name and see the terms that come up beside it. You had an hour to kill him before he despawned for 12 whole hours and when this happened you couldn't proceed through the instance to the next bosses, you were fucked. So, basically, not only was he horribly over-tuned for being the second boss, he had an obnoxious respawn time if you couldn't beat him in an hour. And this was vanilla. You had the run back of course and then the buffing and the readychecking, etc. Yeah, Ulduar was so, so bad, right? Not to mention, sometimes he would even despawn immediately after you talked to him and not appear until the next reset. Sometimes, even if you beat him, his gate would glitch shut, and you still couldn't proceed. This is just one boss. You could also skip the entire first phase (the hard one) of the first boss with Divine Intervention. Then there was threat issues with the drake bosses and attacking whomever they pleased...and people falling through the floor on Nefarian...and then there's Nefarian just straight up breaking Hunter weapons like a dick just because he felt like it, which isn't a bug but just an extremely shit mechanic...you could also get the trash to evade during phase 1 for his encounter...you could LOS Chrommaggus' most dangerous abilities...

    Yeah, sorry to say, bro, Ulduar looks pretty fucking shiny compared to BWL. Of course, I was mostly just going for a numbers here. There were plenty of huge bugs that eclipse Ulduar's issues throughout WoW's history. But this little history lesson is entirely beside the point - Ulduar was considered a great raid by me and many others, in spite of the minor issues it had, which were for the most part exploits that you could choose to participate in and not gamebreaking glitches. And like I said, people being dicks and exploiting had no effect on my experience. And btw, tuning issues...Ignis was totally optional, so please don't make him out to be such an issue. He was an annoyance, not something you would get stuck on if you had any sense.

    Glad I could educate you.
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  6. #106
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diddle View Post
    Maybe it's because I'm not a fan of the whole titan/steampunk/dwarf/gnome setting. I don't know, I was just never very into it and people talk about it like it was a golden age...

    You're not the only one. When Ulduar was current, it was so awfully hard to get people to go in there, it was ridiculous. When main raid was over, people simply had had enough of that place for the week, and you could barely get a functional 10-man together for some casual fun.

    Ulduar wasn't that popular at the time.

    People only came to like it when they were outgearing it and could easily farm for mounts/achievements in there.

  7. #107
    ehh, me and my buddy can't stand the place, however recently levelling a druid has forced me into it weekly for the staff off of hodir for my transmog set, it's just such a tedious raid that i can't stand being inside, however no way in hell can i go without the staff for my transmog

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    You're not the only one. When Ulduar was current, it was so awfully hard to get people to go in there, it was ridiculous. When main raid was over, people simply had had enough of that place for the week, and you could barely get a functional 10-man together for some casual fun.

    Ulduar wasn't that popular at the time.

    People only came to like it when they were outgearing it and could easily farm for mounts/achievements in there.
    I am honestly trying to figure out if this is sarcasm or you are just pulling shit out of your ass. Ulduar was amazingly popular when it was out, there were dozens of threads proclaiming it as the best raid Blizz ever put out.

    Ulduar was the first and last time Blizz ever used hard modes correctly rather than the mind numbing this boss now has more hit points and hits harder crap we have now.

    I swear this thread is like the attack of the Cata babies where to like anything previous is just rose tinted goggles. You put up a poll where everybody can vote on their favorite raid and I will ensure you Ulduar will win. That is, unless you never did it...

  9. #109
    The Patient
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    I can tell some of the people who didnt like Ulduar are mainly complaining because it seems too tedious for them to even bother with it in the first place. Some of their reasoning is they want the raid to be in a linear manner, so linear it might as well be a raid built out of a long hallway so they wont get confused on where to go or afraid where to turn. Vehicles doesnt have a place in any raid? Are you that scared of trying to control something other than your own class? Are you that afraid to do something out of the box? Not bothered to learn anything else?

    Complaining how you have to trigger certain difficulty instead of just flipping a switch on and off? And whats wrong with the Razorscale achievement for the mount? Why? Dont have the patience to do it? Whining about wiping?

    Most people I see complaining is how the raid is not a simple tank-spank-straight-up-fight they want so they can just come in, kill, get loot, get out. Most are whining because they are not bothered to do anything else tedious aside from just pushing their buttons on their class. Im happy ive had awesome people that ive raided with in Ulduar. It just wasnt about the raid itself, it was my experience I had with my guildmates and friends that I played with it that also made it memorable. I still have memories so vivid in my mind, like it was just a month ago. It is one of the top raids ive played in WoW ^_^

  10. #110
    TBH I always found it a bit tedious, interspersed with some great encounters. I think the tedium for me came from the opening boredom of having to clear the towers etc etc just to get to Flame Leviathan which itself was one of the dullest encounters the game has ever put out. It wasn't the worst raid ever by any means, but not one I ever look back on with any nostalgia. It did however have some stunning interiors.

  11. #111
    Legendary! Rorcanna's Avatar
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    I don't care much for it either. Yogg is cool, but other than that I don't feel all that much for it other than pretty architecture and music when it comes to mechanics. People hailing it as the best raid EVUUUUH and pushing those opinions onto others and even using ad hominem arguments against people disagreeing ain't helping. Tons of people may consider it the best thing they ever experienced, doesn't mean everyone has to.
    Last edited by Rorcanna; 2014-08-31 at 10:38 AM.

    That feeling when there's a new expansion out and you sit in a Garrison wondering what the hell to do because you are stuck on an entire continent like Timeless Isle, only with flightpaths to encourage afk travel coz "immersion".

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    You know who Vaelastrasz is? You had an hour to kill him before he despawned for 12 whole hours
    Vael was early attempt at gating mechanic. And amusingly you spent whole paragraph ranting about Vael despawning after one hour for 12h, when you could've ranted instead about Algalon despawning after one hour for the whole week. Strawmans will bite you in the arse really easily if you don't know what you're doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    and then there's Nefarian just straight up breaking Hunter weapons
    Since when has intentional boss mechanics been bugs or exploits. Again you're changing the subject.


    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    That's okay. Shy away even attempting to answer anything regarding the original argument. Make it about something else.
    Glad I could educate you.
    I dont need further education from you or anybody else in trolling basics such as changing the subject or pulling strawman when you've lost the argument. Seen enough of that already over the years.


    I made a pretty simple question of "Which raid instance had more bugs, exploits and mistunings than Ulduar?". Try to stay on subject if you want to carry on with this discussion.
    Last edited by fixx; 2014-08-31 at 11:38 AM.

  13. #113
    Banned Lei Shi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    I don't care much for it either. Yogg is cool, but other than that I don't feel all that much for it other than pretty architecture and music when it comes to mechanics. People hailing it as the best raid EVUUUUH and pushing those opinions onto others and even using ad hominem arguments against people disagreeing ain't helping. Tons of people may consider it the best thing they ever experienced, doesn't mean everyone has to.
    Many people here apparently would even wage war in the real world against those who disliked their favourite raid. I'm 100% sure, It's obvious from the way they post.

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