hate having to choose between rune of power and mirror image

[Polarthief]

This gives them more room for changes. Instead of 5 expansions later, having 200 different spells to try and play around with, they can streamline the specs to give more room for this and not have it go overboard. It would have to happen eventually.

But they're not really filling that room, so to speak. If they do it at level 105 or 110, awesome, great, but that doesn't help at level 100.

[kritisk]

Every class had bloat. Now you've heard it from another Mage player. Pretending you don't know of any out of the millions of players is ridiculous.

The game changes. The changes on beta have been good for the most part. Once tuning is finished and things released, I think it'll be even better for everyone. Just because things have "always" been this way or that is no reason to maintain them as such. (And yes, change JUST for the sake of change can be just as negative.)

[Polarthief]

Every class had bloat. Now you've heard it from another Mage player. Pretending you don't know of any out of the millions of players is ridiculous.

The game changes. The changes on beta have been good for the most part. Once tuning is finished and things released, I think it'll be even better for everyone. Just because things have "always" been this way or that is no reason to maintain them as such. (And yes, change JUST for the sake of change can be just as negative.)

While agreed, and yes we had bloat (e.g., Flamestrike because it's worthless outside of Fire, Mana Gem/Evocate, etc), but they cut out way, waaaaaay too much. We'll see with the tuning pass, but they haven't really taken a stab at major Mage issues yet, so all we can really do is send feedback and hope they actually do something.

[gallamann]

OP, you always can just take MI and ignore that PoS called RoP

Then devote your energy to ensuring mirrors delivers ~13% damage

[Axelond]

Always hated Rune of power on my arcane mage and Mirror image always felt like a useless CD. Glad they are fixing both in one sweep.

[Polarthief]

Always hated Rune of power on my arcane mage and Mirror image always felt like a useless CD. Glad they are fixing both in one sweep.

Not necessarily. Some fights will have RoP be mandatory because no matter what it'll be the best talent in that circumstance. Now, Fire and Frost get lumped into forced Rune sometimes. I wish they would just scrap it because it's why the tier is so hard to balance.

[Rinoa]

Not necessarily. Some fights will have RoP be mandatory because no matter what it'll be the best talent in that circumstance. Now, Fire and Frost get lumped into forced Rune sometimes. I wish they would just scrap it because it's why the tier is so hard to balance.

Agreed. I really wish Rune of Power was taken out of the game. It's gotten a bit better now that it has a much larger radius than what it used to have, but man does it suck. :/

[Penric]

Wow.. I really dont read class notes much until everything is final, as things just keep changing it seems. But is this true? Arcane wont have to spec RoP any longer?

[nukie]

Not sure why Mirror image is now a talent? Was always base line? leave it there?

I enjoy using ROP and also like my images, and now I have to choose. kind of blows

You might be the first person i've come across that actually likes RoP..

[Polarthief]

Wow.. I really dont read class notes much until everything is final, as things just keep changing it seems. But is this true? Arcane wont have to spec RoP any longer?

RoP will be the strongest talent when you can get ~90%+ uptime on it (e.g., standstill fights), for all specs, not just Arcane, but other than that, no, Arcane specifically won't need to spec RoP because they de-linked Mana Regen from it.

The other two talents that replaced the old ones are Mirror Images (who now get 100% of your Spellpower, up from 5%, making it a significant DPS cooldown) and Incanter's Floes (which is a constantly growing and shrinking DPS increase. At 1 stack, it gives 4% damage and at 5 max stacks, it gives 20% damage. It gains or loses a stack every 1s).

You might be the first person i've come across that actually likes RoP..

There are some others, but most people who don't dislike it just simply don't care. There's an overwhelming majority against it though.

[Deztru]

1. What's wrong with having a survivability CD? Also it has plenty more uses outside of just survivability. Kiting, PvP tactics, and various Solo-play scenarios, come to mind.

2. You believe we have button bloat? How so? I truly don't know of any Mages that are under that impression (you'd be the first).

3. How is taking away a baseline ability (that we've had since WoTLK) and re-purposing it into a lvl 90 talent choice, adding an option? Addition by Subtraction? The part that seems to be in bad need of reconstruction is the removal of Rune of Power, not taking away our baseline Mirror Image ability, only to make us have to re-talent back into it (and subsequently lose out on gaining either Rune of Power or Incanter's Flow) if we merely want to keep Mirror Image as a part of our normal game-play.

We literally lose a baseline ability (with multiple uses aside from just survivability) and a talent choice because of mirror image now being that choice.

1. It's only a threat dump, and if they are necessary to avoid big hits they end up lasting only 3 swings. And the talent will be picked for PvP anyway as I can't see much use for RoP or IF in PvP

2. We have some button bloat, MI being best at pre-pull since the DPA is just meh. Atleast from a PvE perspective we don't have button bloat but just 90%-useless skills.

3. It was good in WotLK, it is no longer. Don't know of others but I for one will be happy to not having to use MI, ever.


We lose a baseline ability that's mostly useless to be fair, aside from PvP it's not that useful.

[Txiv]

It means we no longer have a mana tier, shut up before they change their minds lol

[Deztru]

It means we no longer have a mana tier, shut up before they change their minds lol

Here here.

[Debased]

I don't mind the change. In-fact I like how MI will actually be a stronger ability. More flavor when you are talented into too. Baseline abilities are always just another button.

[Deleted]

I really hate to choose between alter time and ice barrier. Ice barrier prob will be better, but I find alter time such an fun spell to use.

[gallamann]

There is no question on minimum movement fights RoP is going to be OP as hell (for all specs) with that 3 minute duration. That duration needs to be halved, won't happen until those stand still fights show Blizzard how stupid OP RoP is at a 3 minute duration. By show I mean the rest of the WoW community will be screaming how unfair it is mages get such an OP talent.

[Neoxx]

I don't know how many fights all of you tested on beta, but IMO most fights have a lot of (unpredictable) movement. I don't think RoP is the default answer like some of you wrote, even with the 3 minute duration. Yes RoP is really good on some fights, but on other fights you have to dodge so many boss abilities that it's really hard to get 90% uptime without dmg loss. Yes I'm a fan of RoP, but you actually have to move out of shit now ... it's not like you can tank everything in you rune like it's on live.

I really don't know what to think about thw new MI. I really hate the fact that it's not baseline anymore, that's one of the worst changes in WoD. MI is bad if you need constant dmg or you have to kill stuff every 30 seconds, but it will be good later in the tier when killtimes are shorter.

Incanters Flow is not bad but not good either. 4% at the lowest stack is a fucking joke, should be like 6% if you ask me. This talent will be good at movement fights and for lazy people


TL/DR:
Talent choice will depend on the boss fight. We will have to switch alot, it's not like now where you have 1 talent for 1 spec for all fights.



PS:
I also hate to choose between Alter Time, Flameglow and Ice Barrier. Alter Time and Flameglow are too situational or just shit and this makes Ice Barrier the default choise ... and I really hate to spend a GCD on a really shitty absorb spell.

[nickseng]

Talent choice will depend on the boss fight. We will have to switch alot, it's not like now where you have 1 talent for 1 spec for all fights.

I don't know about you, I regularly carry stacks of tomes and regularly change talents between fights. Mostly Tier 1, 4 and 5.

[Neoxx]

I don't know about you, I regularly carry stacks of tomes and regularly change talents between fights. Mostly Tier 1, 4 and 5.

I'm was talking about T6 talents. Frost + Fire is Invocation only, for Arcane it's RoP.

[The Kao]

Well I personally tend to get paranoid whenever playing with RoP. Double-checking that the buff is active in ten seconds intervals, avoiding movement at the expense of standing in voids, or moving late, using def CDs where they wouldn't have been needed. As silly as it sounds but that artificially creates a more stressful environment for me. Also one of the reasons why I'm still melting faces with Fire in SoO HC.

So, simple as that, I'm not going to take it. Will probably use MI most of the time, since it's less likely to screw things up in an unanticipated way like the two other talents might. In other words, sacrificing a little DPS for lower risks and buff maintenance = win for me.