Blood Quantum laws

[Deleted]

Indians are the only race in America that has to have that card to prove their race.

If you need a card to prove it then you dont belong to that race, it should be obvious.

[Rixis]

There's few of them left because of the blood quantum test.

https://oneida-nsn.gov/uploadedFiles...oodQuantum.pdf

No, there's few of them left because they (on an individual basis) determing who it is they fall in love with and have children with, thus "diluting" their blood with that of whites/blacks/none native american.

[the game]

If you need a card to prove it then you dont belong to that race, it should be obvious.

Except full blooded Indians have to carry them too. All fractions of the blood line have to carry them.

[Rixis]

You can still consider yourself an Indian all you want. This isn't a "star of david" scenario. The interest of the US government is in terms of the legally defined treaties with still existing tribes. That you need to be able to prove that you're part of a tribe in order to have the right to some of the compensation is pretty much completely normal and fine.

Sounds a little like having to prove you're American to be the President. All Americans have a card (ssn, id, passport, birth certificate, whatever), otherwise they're denied that right.

[Kasierith]

Except full blooded Indians have to carry them too. All fractions of the blood line have to carry them.

Could you please link the law declaring that they are required to carry these cards on them at all points of time, and the legal repercussions of not doing so? It sounds far more like the standard immigration papers; I'm legally expected to carry papers proving my visa at all times on my person, based on my immigration status. If someone is a part of the tribes and thus is considered being a foreigner in citizenship terms, it sounds like the same thing. If things are really carried as far as you are claiming.

[Rixis]

It annoys me too, my Grandad is from Belfast and I was schooled in Ireland for 5 years but I do not consider myself Irish, on the other hand I have met people from other countries that consider themselves Irish because their great great grandad came over on the potato boat but they have never visited the country, they get damned agressive when you tell them they are plastic paddies too.

I've got all mix of blood in me probably. On my mothers side apparently one of the family traced our tree back to Rob Roy. Doesn't mean I'm Scottish, even if I can see it (scortland) from where I live on a clear day

[Kasierith]

Sounds a little like having to prove you're American to be the President. All Americans have a card (ssn, id, passport, birth certificate, whatever), otherwise they're denied that right.

Pretty much. The US government likes its money. If you can't prove to them that they owe you said money, sucks to be you, pretty much.

[Deleted]

I've got all mix of blood in me probably. On my mothers side apparently one of the family traced our tree back to Rob Roy. Doesn't mean I'm Scottish, even if I can see it (scortland) from where I live on a clear day

I have Irish blood, A scottish name, my ancestors probably raped a welshy but I am still called English because of my accent, I prefer to call myself British.

[the game]

Could you please link the law declaring that they are required to carry these cards on them at all points of time, and the legal repercussions of not doing so? It sounds far more like the standard immigration papers; I'm legally expected to carry papers proving my visa at all times on my person, based on my immigration status. If someone is a part of the tribes and thus is considered being a foreigner in citizenship terms, it sounds like the same thing. If things are really carried as far as you are claiming.

I'm not saying they have to carry it on them. I'm saying they have to have it.

[Zethras]

I've got all mix of blood in me probably. On my mothers side apparently one of the family traced our tree back to Rob Roy. Doesn't mean I'm Scottish, even if I can see it (scortland) from where I live on a clear day

Pssh, my family can trace itself back almost 1000 years back to Scandinavian vikings, i'm clearly a viking.

[Rixis]

Oh, hey, look at how much they're breeding them out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_quantum_laws

"The U.S. census decennial enumerations indicate a Native American population growth for the United States that has been nearly continuous since 1900 (except for an influenza epidemic in 1918 that caused serious losses), to 1.42 million by 1980 and to over 1.9 million by 1990."[4] In the 2000 census, there were 2.5 million American Indians. Since 1960, people self-identify their ancestry on the US Census.[4]

[Kasierith]

I'm not saying they have to carry it on them. I'm saying they have to have it.

In order to be entitled to the benefits of being a part of the tribe. You're forgetting a pretty important second half of that statement. If you want the government to give you benefits, it's up to you to demonstrate that you qualify for it; they aren't going to just give it away.

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Pssh, my family can trace itself back almost 1000 years back to Scandinavian vikings, i'm clearly a viking.

My family can trace itself back to merging between Mongol invaders and original peoples of Kievan Rus; I am both a viking and a Mongol barbarian!

[Rixis]

For decades, tribes have established their own requirements for membership. In some cases, they have excluded members who had long been part of the tribe. An example of a tribal membership requirement is one based on documented lineal descent from a Native American member listed on the Dawes Rolls, or an early 20th-century census. Unlike the provisions of the Indian Reorganization Act, many tribes allow members to claim ancestry in more than one tribe.[citation needed]

Tribes have established their own criteria for membership.[4] Given the new revenues that many tribes are realizing from gambling casinos and other economic development or from settlement of 19th-century land claims, some have established more restrictive rules to limit membership.

Many Native Americans have become used to the idea of "blood quantum".[2] The blood quantum laws have caused problems in Native American families whose members were inaccurately recorded as having differing full or partial descent from particular tribes.[2][5][8] In some cases, family members or entire families have been excluded from being enrolled as members of their tribe even when they have no non-Native American ancestors.[5]

Many Native American tribes continue to employ blood quantum in current tribal laws to determine who is eligible for membership or citizenship in the tribe or Native American nation. These often require a minimum degree of blood relationship and often an ancestor listed in a specific tribal census from the late 19th century or early 20th century. The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians of North Carolina, for example, require an ancestor listed in the 1924 Baker census and a minimum of 1/16 Cherokee blood inherited from their ancestor(s) on that roll. Meanwhile, the Cherokee Nation requires applicants to descend from an ancestor in the 1906 Dawes roll (direct lineal ancestry), but does not impose minimum blood quantum requirement. The United Keetoowah Band requires a minimum 1/4 blood quantum.

Sounds more like it's the Native Americans making use of the blood quantum themselves than being oppressed and bred out by white man.

[Hiricine]

The tribalistic idea that someone owes you money because of something that happened to 1/16th of your heritage or 1/64th of your heritage is silly.

[Kasierith]

Sounds more like it's the Native Americans making use of the blood quantum themselves than being oppressed and bred out by white man.

Pretty much; like I said, the treaties are with tribes, not individuals. More people in the tribe, less money to go around; the treaties aren't on a "per Native american" basis. The US keeping track of anything is more for documentation than anything else.

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The tribalistic idea that someone owes you money because of something that happened to 1/16th of your heritage or 1/64th of your heritage is silly.

Standing legal treaties between the US government and tribes. So yes, legal entitlement.

[DEATHETERNAL]

Your right that such laws should be eliminated. Such laws wouldn't be necessary if the federal and state governments would simply withdraw recognition that tribal governments get, stop giving Indians benefits just because they are Indians, and treat Indians like any other citizens. Pass a law withdrawing from all treaties with Indian tribes in one year’s time that also mandates each tribe voting on who should get any land they currently possess as a reservation. Let them split up the land among the tribe members, give it to one person to administer, sell it all and split the money among all the tribe members, or whatever they want, but end the current system of tribal recognition and reservations. It is a pointless system that continues to hold back Indians by encouraging them to cling to tribes instead of integrating into society. End it, and such blood quantum laws cease to be necessary as well.

[teddytous]

If you need a card to prove it then you dont belong to that race, it should be obvious.

The native American appearance genes can get overwhelmed very easily, a person can be 50% native, or hell even 75%, and look extremely non-native American if they get some predominate genes from another race in the mix.

A person shouldn't be in a different legal standing then their parents just cause they happened odd genetic roll of the dice.

Your right that such laws should be eliminated. Such laws wouldn't be necessary if the federal and state governments would simply withdraw recognition that tribal governments get, stop giving Indians benefits just because they are Indians, and treat Indians like any other citizens. Pass a law withdrawing from all treaties with Indian tribes in one year’s time that also mandates each tribe voting on who should get any land they currently possess as a reservation. Let them split up the land among the tribe members, give it to one person to administer, sell it all and split the money among all the tribe members, or whatever they want, but end the current system of tribal recognition and reservations. It is a pointless system that continues to hold back Indians by encouraging them to cling to tribes instead of integrating into society. End it, and such blood quantum laws cease to be necessary as well.

On this I agree with you, it will be a long painful messy much more complicated process then what you suggest, but I think this is something that needs to happen sooner or later.

[SpcGuts]

So one of my classes this semester is on Native American studies. One of the things we started talking about last week is blood quantum tests/laws. For those who don't know blood quantum tests are what the american government uses to decides how much Indian blood a person has in them. Once the indian blood gets to a certain fraction in the blood quantum test they can no longer be considered Indian. In fact Indians have to carry a government issued ID card saying that they are indian and it puts how much indian blood on the card. Without this card an individual can't be considered Indian. This started in 1705 because Indians are/were considered less than human/savages. It's the governments way of doing away with indians.

I personally think in this day and age that it's time to do away with blood quantum laws. In an age where we are trying to do away with racism this has no place. I'm told they also do this blood quantum for puerto ricans.

What do you guys think? Do we have any American Indians on these forums?

Native American tribes and nations determine membership. Some nations and tribes have lowered or removed a blood quantum requirement in an effort to prevent extinction of their tribes or nation. Some of nations that no longer use blood quantum tests simply rely on lineal or roll descent. Some of these include Cherokee Nation, Seminole Nation, Modoc Tribe, Chickasaw Nation, Choctaw Nation.

A friend of mine was recently accepted into the Porch Band of Creek Indians because they lowered their quantum levels to 1/16th in an effort to boost membership.

[poser765]

In order to be entitled to the benefits of being a part of the tribe. You're forgetting a pretty important second half of that statement. If you want the government to give you benefits, it's up to you to demonstrate that you qualify for it; they aren't going to just give it away.

yes, it's really this simple. If you want to get the cheap Kiowa Tribe car tag, then you have to prove you are a member of the Kiowa Tribe. If you don't want the tag (or any other benefits) then you don't have to prove shit. There is no law that says if you are native American you have to carry some card or be on some roll. It's completely up to the individual.

OP I strongly suggest you go talk to your teacher, for you clearly misunderstood what was being said.

[Kalis]

Native American tribes and nations determine membership. Some nations and tribes have lowered or removed a blood quantum requirement in an effort to prevent extinction of their tribes or nation. Some of nations that no longer use blood quantum tests simply rely on lineal or roll descent. Some of these include Cherokee Nation, Seminole Nation, Modoc Tribe, Chickasaw Nation, Choctaw Nation.

A friend of mine was recently accepted into the Porch Band of Creek Indians because they lowered their quantum levels to 1/16th in an effort to boost membership.

If some tribes have removed the requirements, do they accept applications for membership?

I was born in the town where Pocahontas was buried.