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  1. #1

    If Numbers Were Perfect, Your Opinion of Mechanics!?

    So I was considering this idea; if the numbers were tuned perfectly, what would you think of shaman mechanics? What feels clunky, what feels old?

    Examples: let's say fire totem wrecks people with its volcanic awesomeness, does it feel good to use, is the totem mechanic Okay for you? Clunky? Too weak?

    Or

    Let's say shamanic rage is just so strong, does a % reduction useable while ccd work mechanically? Do we need to break cc better or have a way to stop hard focus?

    Or

    If moulten fury does amazing damage is that okay for mobility with the loss of movement LB?

    I'm courious as to people's opinions on mechanics, and how they flow and feel especially in pvp situations... Thoughts?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Some of my thoughts:
    totems could be perfectly balanced, but totemic vigor would still NEED to be baseline. The fact that someone can counter an ability, gcd, and a 100 talent with a macro/melee attack by taking out a searing totem is ridiculous. Give totemic vigor baseline, and adjustments to totem cds, and there would be no need to have any t45 talents, and that could be a mobility tei.

    Ghost wolf glyph should be baseline

    Elementals should be off the totem list, meaning if I have rock ele, he shouldn't get clipped by earthbind

    Just acouple example

  2. #2
    Deleted
    T45 sucks, T75 sucks and doesnt belong in a world where pure and hybrid dps are equal, T100 sucks

    EQ sucks, UF sucks, no sprint/teleport/disengage/blink sucks, no immunities/hard def CDs sucks

    new EotE is a joke, no change to 6+ years old totem system is a joke, more abilities bound to sticks and their disadvantages is a joke

    ----

    Logging in on my beta shaman just makes me cry.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    T45 sucks, T75 sucks and doesnt belong in a world where pure and hybrid dps are equal, T100 sucks

    EQ sucks, UF sucks, no sprint/teleport/disengage/blink sucks, no immunities/hard def CDs sucks

    new EotE is a joke, no change to 6+ years old totem system is a joke, more abilities bound to sticks and their disadvantages is a joke

    ----

    Logging in on my beta shaman just makes me cry.
    ^^ 100% accurate. Just couldnt agree more.

    The real question now is - Will I play Elemental shaman or will I reroll? The guild I will play with will not have elemental shaman and want one while the class I want to play the most (mage) is on full status :-D

  4. #4
    Manually positioning Healing Rain has been a bugbear of mine with Shaman since the spell showed up. For a spell that Resto Shaman are expected to use on CD (the spec is "balanced" around HR), the constant cast time plus positioning time is so bloody irritating.
    Also, having to use Unleash to buff a heal is extremely clunky.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cartho View Post
    "Shaman are complaining again guys, shall we look at them a bit more closely? Maybe there's some truth in what these people are saying...."

    "Meh, let's just buff chain heal and healing rain then go have some lunch."

    "Okey dokey!"

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    T45 sucks, T75 sucks and doesnt belong in a world where pure and hybrid dps are equal, T100 sucks

    EQ sucks, UF sucks, no sprint/teleport/disengage/blink sucks, no immunities/hard def CDs sucks

    new EotE is a joke, no change to 6+ years old totem system is a joke, more abilities bound to sticks and their disadvantages is a joke

    ----

    Logging in on my beta shaman just makes me cry.
    Basically, this. Several talents should be nuked from orbit and some abilities should definitely be changed.
    It is ridiculous that Ghost Wolf glyph is not baseline, and that Ghost Wolf itself can be dispelled. Totemic projection should be baseline, as well as persistence (and the 3rd talent should be removed). I also find it stupid that totems can't be cast while silenced, yet they are still 1-shottable without the glyph.

    ...without going into a million other things, there should be a glyph where we get slow fall during Spiritwalker's Grace. Shamans are like the only class that doesn't have anything to prevent fall damage.

    Oh and I think Elemental should have faster gameplay. I don't know how it'll be in WoD but even with stacking haste on live for me Elemental feels too slow compared to previous expansions.

  6. #6
    Healing feels good to me. I understand when to use surge, wave and chain. Cooldowns feel a lot more meaningful. Verdict still out on t100 but it looks like cloudburst for stack fights and chainheal boost for spread fights ( air totem might have nitch uses but feels weak in a raid environment for now.)

  7. #7
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliot123 View Post
    Oh and I think Elemental should have faster gameplay. I don't know how it'll be in WoD but even with stacking haste on live for me Elemental feels too slow compared to previous expansions.
    As it stands right now, you wont be stacking Haste, cause Mastery/Multistrike fill our needs in ST/AE and have high caps. From my experience in raid testing, questing and PvP on beta, the game play will get even slower (not just because of stat drop as every end tier -> new expansion). Just imagine 2 seconds CL cast time and 2,5 seconds EQ cast time. Multistrike could fix this "feeling" part, but you can most definetely forget 5.4 shaman - because 6.0 will crush all your expectations people had after the beta began.
    Last edited by mmoc59b5827c7e; 2014-08-29 at 05:01 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Shockeye View Post
    Manually positioning Healing Rain has been a bugbear of mine with Shaman since the spell showed up. For a spell that Resto Shaman are expected to use on CD (the spec is "balanced" around HR), the constant cast time plus positioning time is so bloody irritating.
    Also, having to use Unleash to buff a heal is extremely clunky.
    OO yeah healing rain should be a totem drop and be movable with projection. Glyph to make it not instantly move but slowly move so you can have it healing during a raid move boss mechanic

  9. #9
    Yeh it seems so weird how many mechanical gameplay issues with shaman. That even in theory if all the numbers are perfect the mechanics are clunky and weak. And I'm. Blown away by blizzards lack of concern/consideration for shaman mechanics... It really seems like the blood elf models.... Like blizzard didn't have time to address a mechanical overhaul for shaman so they unprioritized them, and just tried to make them work as is in the warlords model. Without actually addressing the due to time. A lack of pruning, consolidation, talent and mechanic changes that shaman so need. I'd rather be ele but with all the changes I'm prbly going to just go enhance =/ even tho that will still lack as a melee, it'll prbly be more viable than ele for ranged.... I foresee a lot of healing case our damage specs will be clunky and unaddressed.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    As it stands right now, you wont be stacking Haste, cause Mastery/Multistrike fill our needs in ST/AE and have high caps. From my experience in raid testing, questing and PvP on beta, the game play will get even slower (not just because of stat drop as every end tier -> new expansion). Just imagine 2 seconds CL cast time and 2,5 seconds EQ cast time. Multistrike could fix this "feeling" part, but you can most definetely forget 5.4 shaman - because 6.0 will crush all your expectations people had after the beta began.
    http://i.imgur.com/AOgsjsv.gif

    Oh joy.

  11. #11
    Shamans started out as the kings of utility. If you look at our utility now, it got torn to shreds over the years. Homogenisation in favor of others made totems inferior, because other abilities provide the same or better on a better format. Unique totem effects like original grounding totem, tremor, cleansing etc. They keep getting nerfed/removed. How blizzard clings to totems like magma instead, and introduces new crap like capacitor, Storm Elemental or Liquid Magma..., nothing but a /facepalm extravaganca for me. Totemic Restoration was the only totem talent that looked interesting to me, and they axed it.
    It took them 2 x-packs to realize that Searing Flames was bad...

    Totem treatment by itself speaks volumes of blizzard's respect for the class.
    Looking at how they remove Mana Tide and Stormlash, and nerf Tremor because it's group utility...shamans are basically denied their identity of being group supporters.
    But blizz be damned if they started becoming competitive in other areas as compensation, namely mobility, survivability, cc, or other utility.
    We're basically the only ones without a class overhaul in all those years.

    Even looking at vanity stuff, shamans are always behind. New GW form? Well guess what, druids got theirs way earlier (plus armor), and by the time we get ours, they get humanoid fighting forms.

    What'S that? Shamanistic Rage is actually a borderline competitive ability? Time to half Barkskin's cooldown then? Cant have shamans being competitive anywhere.


    I cant for the live of me think of a single (!) ability or talent right now of the shaman class that makes me go "Damn! That's why I wanna be a shaman!".
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  12. #12
    I feel like Fire totems shouldn't do direct damage unless it's the Fire Elemental. I just don't like having to be balanced around damage on an immobile separate entity.

    Elemental and Enhance do not need immunities, we have small defenses that are frequent. SBT, AShift, and Sham Rage are perfect examples of this.

    As for totems, it is no doubt one of the most outdated class systems. We have all these types of totems that offer benefits but, aren't feeling as unique as they used to because other classes have received the same mechanic. Abilities like Grounding, Windwalk, and Tremor Totem are things that should be more widespread in our toolkit. Anti-CC is a niche we have but, isn't really as strong as it should be. We should have more utility that allows us to block damage and avoid cc to counter the fact that we have little CC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chubathingy View Post
    But anyway it's OK to be jelly of the tallest midget.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    Shamans started out as the kings of utility. If you look at our utility now, it got torn to shreds over the years. Homogenisation in favor of others made totems inferior, because other abilities provide the same or better on a better format. Unique totem effects like original grounding totem, tremor, cleansing etc. They keep getting nerfed/removed. How blizzard clings to totems like magma instead, and introduces new crap like capacitor, Storm Elemental or Liquid Magma..., nothing but a /facepalm extravaganca for me. Totemic Restoration was the only totem talent that looked interesting to me, and they axed it.
    It took them 2 x-packs to realize that Searing Flames was bad...

    Totem treatment by itself speaks volumes of blizzard's respect for the class.
    Looking at how they remove Mana Tide and Stormlash, and nerf Tremor because it's group utility...shamans are basically denied their identity of being group supporters.
    But blizz be damned if they started becoming competitive in other areas as compensation, namely mobility, survivability, cc, or other utility.
    We're basically the only ones without a class overhaul in all those years.

    Even looking at vanity stuff, shamans are always behind. New GW form? Well guess what, druids got theirs way earlier (plus armor), and by the time we get ours, they get humanoid fighting forms.

    What'S that? Shamanistic Rage is actually a borderline competitive ability? Time to half Barkskin's cooldown then? Cant have shamans being competitive anywhere.


    I cant for the live of me think of a single (!) ability or talent right now of the shaman class that makes me go "Damn! That's why I wanna be a shaman!".
    I totally feel you there. I played since classic beta.... And so I've got to ask... where did cleanse posion and clease disease go? Shaman used to be able to have totems that cleansed those.... What I dont understand is what the heck cleanse spirit is.... Does any ele/enh use this? Can it even remove anything past warlock curses (which are a very minor thing.) Why cant they be like every other hybrid class and get either disease or posion, things acutally useful to remove, or in fact, why didnt they combined cleanse spirit with purge, to allow us to purge bad things off ourselves and others.... removes a key bind, and becomes more useful.

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    T45 sucks, T75 sucks and doesnt belong in a world where pure and hybrid dps are equal, T100 sucks

    EQ sucks, UF sucks, no sprint/teleport/disengage/blink sucks, no immunities/hard def CDs sucks

    new EotE is a joke, no change to 6+ years old totem system is a joke, more abilities bound to sticks and their disadvantages is a joke

    ----

    Logging in on my beta shaman just makes me cry.
    You are my hero! Nothing more needs to be said!

  15. #15
    The thing is a unique totem, like Cleansing Totem, would be way too OP in this stage of WoW, than it was in the era that it existed. The only way I could see Cleansing Totem be remade with the debuff removal, is if it would be readjusted so it doesn't become op.

    Cleansing Totem
    Instant 3 min CD
    Summon a Water Totem. Decreases periodic damage taken by 10% and instantly removes 3 Magic
    and Curse effects on 3 allies then, removes 2 more effects per ally every 5 seconds (The cleanse ticks will prioritize magic over curse).
    Lasts 10 seconds.

    Something akin to this would be pretty unique. The only thing is, if it's dispelling effects like VT or UA it should have some downside.
    Last edited by shamantime; 2014-08-30 at 05:40 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chubathingy View Post
    But anyway it's OK to be jelly of the tallest midget.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    Shamans started out as the kings of utility. If you look at our utility now, it got torn to shreds over the years. Homogenisation in favor of others made totems inferior, because other abilities provide the same or better on a better format. Unique totem effects like original grounding totem, tremor, cleansing etc. They keep getting nerfed/removed. How blizzard clings to totems like magma instead, and introduces new crap like capacitor, Storm Elemental or Liquid Magma..., nothing but a /facepalm extravaganca for me. Totemic Restoration was the only totem talent that looked interesting to me, and they axed it.
    It took them 2 x-packs to realize that Searing Flames was bad...

    Totem treatment by itself speaks volumes of blizzard's respect for the class.
    Looking at how they remove Mana Tide and Stormlash, and nerf Tremor because it's group utility...shamans are basically denied their identity of being group supporters.
    But blizz be damned if they started becoming competitive in other areas as compensation, namely mobility, survivability, cc, or other utility.
    We're basically the only ones without a class overhaul in all those years.

    Even looking at vanity stuff, shamans are always behind. New GW form? Well guess what, druids got theirs way earlier (plus armor), and by the time we get ours, they get humanoid fighting forms.

    What'S that? Shamanistic Rage is actually a borderline competitive ability? Time to half Barkskin's cooldown then? Cant have shamans being competitive anywhere.


    I cant for the live of me think of a single (!) ability or talent right now of the shaman class that makes me go "Damn! That's why I wanna be a shaman!".
    The only reason I force myself to play Elemental is the visuals. A pretty casual reason, where I even catch myself flaming other people for it. 6.0 Shaman offers no reason to play Elemental instead of the other caster classes, except for the visuals. If you happen to enjoy the priority-type spellcasting of Ele, you can have the same thing and even more in regards of QoL, survibility, toolkits, etc. if you play Arcane Mage or Destruction/Demo Warlock. Prior to 6.0 (where they removed snap-shotting for dot-classes) DoT classes needed more skill, but times change.

  17. #17
    Deleted
    I got beta access by magic and played a bit on 90lvl enha shaman. Meh, i don't like that UE does not do any damage. For some reason i did like UE, it even looked nice on fem draenei as it does spin animation. New EotE feels weird (i always prefer passive talents) and i don't like new maelstrom weapon (showing every stack) spell alert at all.

    I think i could play elemental again... leveled elemental in cata and went to enha soon after that. Just because i have no "emotional attachment" in ele spec anymore.

  18. #18
    Enhc.

    Abilities don't do enough damage, we're backloaded on Lightning bolt so everything else feels like shit and EotE feels like shit. LB should be nerfed a bit and everything else buffed.

    Fire ele and searing totem (still in fire eles case) do too much damage for my liking, nerf them and put that damage onto the enhc. Windfury/flametongue auto attack and feral spirits (and static shock if that was still a thing) should be all of our passive damage, we don't need more.

    Ascendance feels absolutely pointless as enhc, it does no damage and now that we lost the 'zap' animation it also feels like shit. just remove it and bake its damage into feral spirits.

    Reduce to cast time of hex for enhc, rework level 100 talents barring lava floes. Make totemic projection baseline and redo the level 45 tree as well. Then we can talk.

    Make Lighting shield useful in PVE, now that they've removed static shock it's a completely pointless buff that's only good for the 10% damage reduction glyph in PVE.
    Last edited by Emophia; 2014-08-30 at 01:32 PM.

  19. #19
    Deleted
    So, just to get something out of the way first. I haven't played ever since February 2011, but i've been following what has happened.

    I echo what people are seeing as issues for the Shaman, and i truly think Blizzard is denying the potential the class had. This is not just a simple mistake they're making, and i believe they're fully aware of it. Maybe i'm alone in this (at least for Enhancement), but i think we had it best in Wrath / Cataclysm, before something clicked for the developers. We've lost a lot of uniqueness to other classes, but at least we had a very functional spec. This now seems to have been taken away as well, and was replaced by a more clunky gameplay style.

    Some ideas i do like, and it's something that should've been implemented sooner. Ascendence for when you're out of range, for example. Ultimately, the decisions made by the team and my guild disbanding, i decided to just leave the game. I truly do feel for you suffering right now, especially because to me, this was the only Shaman that had great potential for gameplay.

    PS: I'm from Vanilla 18/04/2005, so i've seen the game change and i'm no Wrath baby.
    Last edited by mmoc9bcc7f840b; 2014-08-30 at 05:34 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    The only reason I force myself to play Elemental is the visuals. A pretty casual reason, where I even catch myself flaming other people for it. 6.0 Shaman offers no reason to play Elemental instead of the other caster classes, except for the visuals. If you happen to enjoy the priority-type spellcasting of Ele, you can have the same thing and even more in regards of QoL, survibility, toolkits, etc. if you play Arcane Mage or Destruction/Demo Warlock. Prior to 6.0 (where they removed snap-shotting for dot-classes) DoT classes needed more skill, but times change.
    Yes. Being the master of the four elements PLUS totems, PLUS communing with the spirits of the ancestors and nature, how colourful the class is(was) in what it could do, and how it looked, doing that.
    Compare that to be all blue as a frost dk/mage, all purply as unholy, all raaarg-in-your-face as warriors. Pretty much everyone else is boring and one dimensional terms of potential, compared to shamans. Maybe that's why it hurts even more to be treated like this. We all are overloaded with ideas, hopes and what not for the class...and do not even get the bare necessities we've asked for for years.
    And on those rare ocassions they give us something we've asked for a long time for (EQ), it's underwhelming. Same with cc (Hex), stuns (CPT), aoe...
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

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