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  1. #1

    25man Hc Siegecrafter Yo (Disc Advice)

    So my gimped ass guild finally downed thok before the end of the week and now we have a delightful 2.5 hours of wipefest on sunday when we walk into Siegecrafter 25man hc. Considering that I was almost double everyone elses healing on thok (is that right? that doesn't feel right, even if Divine Star OP), what advice can be given to me to best carry my healing team, and just generally improve my performance.

    Thok Logs ahoy: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...9&type=healing
    I think that was our first or 2nd kill, idk, I've been really bad with logs at the moment. The general meters haven't changed much though. I doubt that's very relevant for any siegecrafter advice, but its there anyway.

    I'll link the impending wipefest logs tomorrow after the raid or on monday, so that anyone who's willing to help can look over them for me. General raid advice outside of healing will also be appreciated, my guild has a habit of only a few people ever looking up guides and such, and it often comes down to myself and a few officers explaining everything.

    ty all
    xoxo, Gossiptone
    Disc Priests: Just 2 mana trinkets away from becoming Withered

  2. #2
    Smite all the things. When we first attempred H Siegecrafter and were browsing videos we saw one with a disc priest solo-healing it. Full atonement, standing in fire and stuff.

    Other than that, there are so many different ways to do the fight that the only right way is the way that's right for your group. We just got to H Siege on my alt's group tonight and we're doing it way differently than what we usually do with my main's group. As general tips:

    - Always know where you're gonna be dropping sawblades and make sure the group coordinates to avoid them.
    - Same for lasers.
    - Stun all the things. Mine CC makes it happen.
    - Bitch at melee not on belts and call them names. It's easy mode for them.
    - Identify empowered laser and magnet safe spots and use them to your advantage.

    Best of luck!

  3. #3
    Definitely recommend using Midwinter's strat.

    Its nothing really different you do as a disc priest.

    It doesn't look like you have enough hunters to solely do the belts. You should add your WW monk and make him use transcendence for every second one. It'll also help by triage healing the people on the belt that took stacks from fire when they go back on (which is unavoidable for some classes - the melee rotating or whatever will get one stack of fire going through the demonic gateway). Hunters deterrence through it, and WW monk uses diffuse.

    To kill Seigecrafter there are only three things you need to accomplish.
    - People doing belts correctly
    - Everyone knowing the positioning throughout the fight
    - killing mines and using CC and knockbacks to do it efficiently.

  4. #4
    We have 3 hunters, two of which are very good and one who has an extreme case of tunnel vision and very bad awareness, so belts might be better than the floor anyway. The WW said he knows what to do with that trick too. How many would you need? Could just those 4 do it?

    I'd say half our guild are vanilla vets, so CC shouldn't be an issue (*shouldn't*). We'll get there when we get there.
    The correct belts order shouldn't be a problem once they know it.
    Positioning could be iffy. :|

    In terms of how long siegecrafter progression usually takes, what can we expect? We killed thok in under 40 attempts i think? It was a lot faster than I was expecting TBH, but I don't know what to expect with siegecrafter.
    Disc Priests: Just 2 mana trinkets away from becoming Withered

  5. #5
    Deleted
    Things I do on Siegecrafter I'd recommend, but YRMV:

    1) Take Void Tendrils. There's no reason you will be at the crawler mine spawn point, but if you happened for whatever reason to be, it's a root.
    2) Take Spectral Guise - you can bug out sawblades (just not the first 2, as they are required for the shredder) by having it bound in a good twitch location to press as soon as it's announced you are getting the sawblade.
    3) Take Body and Soul - If you can't avoid bugging out the sawblade for whatever reason, it's an easy way to run out to the side quickly to deposit it, and back in again. Furthermore, there can be a bit of awkward movement and damage on this fight depending on strat, so it's useful to help both. I like to shield people who get blades who can't bug them out or people who get laser so they can run away.
    4) Take Cascade - Some people advocate DS, some advocate halo. In my main raids we use cascade because at any one time you cannot guarantee where everyone will be or what healing they will need or if they'll be in range. It has a lower CD, which is good for overcharged electromagnet tme, and can be a lifesaver on runners.
    5) Begin Spirit Shell when you hear "AUTOMATED SHREDDER DEFENSE SYSTEM hifudhfiduisduhf" - I don't really know what the last thing he says is but I'm sure you know the moment I mean. Pop AA, SS PoHx4, then stuff starts to happen. Atonement should suffice from then on.
    6) If you do get the overcharged electromagnet, try to time your 2nd spirit shell so it has a good amount and duration for the beginning of overcharged electromagnet time. Shield people who get laser or sawblades during this time, and don't be scared to pain sup yourself if you have to run.
    7) Beware the tanks. Void Shift/Pain Sup can be lifesavers.
    8) If you get overcharged sidemines, I tend to pop my 2nd pot then and help DPSing them as much as possible.

    Generally, these are just very specific since I wasn't sure what advice you wanted. Smite all the things indeed.

    The fable of Siegecrafter Blackfuse, by our Feral Druid:
    "Once upon a mine. BOOM. The End."

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleze View Post
    The fable of Siegecrafter Blackfuse, by our Feral Druid:
    "Once upon a mine. BOOM. The End."
    I laughed so much at this! (And yes, sadly that just happened to my feral druid last night :P)

  7. #7
    Just reiterating what others have said, and hopefully adding a bit:

    1. Spectral Guise. First off, I suggest making a /stopcasting macro for it (as you really have to hit it right as he targets you; if you wait even a fraction of a second longer, he will still cast it). Also, make sure you still are always aware of where to drop sawblades, as sometimes SG will be on CD/may not go off in time. Generally speaking, I always "twitch"/run out of the group when I see Sawblade casting on me, regardless of SG status. This really cuts down on accidents.

    2. Watch your timers. This is a fight which disc can make lolworthy by simply tracking the boss abilities. Time your first SS up with the first add coming down (I find it best to pop SS/AA/IF when there's ~5s left on the "Automated Shredder Inc!" timer - that way the raid is blanketed for the first Overload). Then aim to use it roughly on CD after that, as it will generally time up again with the Overloads or the Crushes. Note, if your guild is having trouble healing the Crushes, you may want to sit on your final SS CD before that phase, as generally speaking, it doesn't time up perfectly with the first Crush if you use it on CD (it will come back up right as that 1st Crush is ending).

    3. DS on CD, assuming your group is using the group-up strat. You can get fancy and time them well with the Overloads (so that it hits for shields on the way out, healing on the way in) but I find that often to be more trouble than it's worth. If you're not stacking, then Cascade is probably your best bet. But I've personally always used DS. (Note: Cascade won't get you ToF procs like DS will). Even if healing is light, keeping DS on CD guarantees DA generation, which is great on Siegecrafter.

    4. Shield (stupid) people who get high stacks (~3+) of the flame debuff if you have time. This won't improve your healing numbers, but it will save lives, which can ultimately lead to a kill. Progression isn't the time to be thinking about ranking too much!

    5. Atonement like mad. This is a great fight for ToF (PS - take ToF :P), especially if you're using DS, so really try to keep your uptime high. HF/PW:Solace off the tank's add or a mine if nothing else. But all in all, Atonement on this fight takes very high precedence on this fight. DA generation is key.

    6. Shield tanks, and be ready to CD them. I use VS a lot on this fight, and I often save PS for the tank who's on the boss during the Crushes (he takes 6 stacks in our strat).

    7. PoM is good on this fight, but it doesn't take precedence over Atonement in my experience (unless it's during a Crush).

    8. Depending on how you guys position, it's often wise to lay feathers/B&S shield the tank when he pulls so he can quickly move the boss into position. My tanks found this really helpful when we were learning. I also used to throw down feathers around the sawblade dropping/lazer kiting spots, so that people could run over them to get in and out quickly and keep DPSing.

    Mana on this fight is generally very easy. It's a great fight for Disc. I held the #1 healing rank (out of all healing specs) on WCL for it for a few months actually, which is something I'm kind of proud of. Once you try it a few times you'll (hopefully) find that you fall into a trance-like "routine" for the fight, as everything just sort of flows for Disc in it; cooldowns time up well with boss abilities, movement is minimal, and Atonement is really great for it. Have fun!

  8. #8
    Thanks for the help guys, this is exactly the kind of stuff I was looking for. Just a few things I'm unsure of:
    1) Crushes? I'm not familiar with this term, I probs just call it something different.
    2) Is there a video I can see for the group-up strat? I'm not all that familiar with the various strats, I've mostly been researching the mechanics and such, and I usually use the VOX 10man hc raid guides by Gabestah on youtube because I find that he goes into excellent detail on the encounter and mechanics and includes a lot of finer details that most guides won't, but it doesn't help me with strats that are different for 25man.
    Disc Priests: Just 2 mana trinkets away from becoming Withered

  9. #9
    Deleted
    1) Crushes? I'm not familiar with this term, I probs just call it something different.
    That would be magnetic crush which is when the sawblades are pulled into the middle and then oscillate in and out as you are pushed around! PoM is really useful here and typically takes precedence over an Atonement spell at this point.

    Having switched from 10 man to 25 man, despite enjoying the much less stressful healing, I'm missing Siegecrafter already as we fight against the trial problem to get back to where we were :<

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimeez View Post
    That would be magnetic crush which is when the sawblades are pulled into the middle and then oscillate in and out as you are pushed around! PoM is really useful here and typically takes precedence over an Atonement spell at this point.

    Having switched from 10 man to 25 man, despite enjoying the much less stressful healing, I'm missing Siegecrafter already as we fight against the trial problem to get back to where we were :<
    Hmm, that would be the obvious answer wouldn't it -_- yeah I figured it would be a good PoM situation, much like iron jug's siege phase.

    Ah yes, the recruit boss, its the real final boss of SoO in 6.0 Well, at least you have cutting edge, I'm starting to think my guild won't get there, and I won't be able to pug it because guild obligations.
    Disc Priests: Just 2 mana trinkets away from becoming Withered

  11. #11
    Deleted
    Ah yes, the recruit boss, its the real final boss of SoO in 6.0 Well, at least you have cutting edge, I'm starting to think my guild won't get there, and I won't be able to pug it because guild obligations.
    Nope, I don't have cutting edge! This summer has been terrible for raid times and availability which is a total pain. I am pretty certain I'll see a similar situation with the need to pug it at some point. Rather infuriating!

  12. #12
    Automated Shredder spawn is on 1-min cycle, which means that you sync your AA/DS/SS with ~4-8s left on it. After which, just spam those 3 spells on CD. If you need to run out for lasers, just skip one cast of AA and DS, it's more crucial that you have AA/DS/SS up at ~4-8s left on Automated Shredder. The timing will depend on how many absorbs your raid has, because I've found that casting it too early will cause your absorbs to be wasted if there's another Disc in the raid.

    Apart from this, make a macro to target the Crawler Mines to cast HF on and proc ToF off them. You should also spec into Spectral Guise because it negates an entire Sawblade if you react fast enough. The two most common deaths are either the tanks or people who have taken too many Superheated stacks, so focus your PW:S on them.
    Last edited by Basmothh; 2014-08-31 at 06:26 PM.

  13. #13
    SS isn't really needed for Overload, but if you do use it to prevent damage taken from it, wouldn't it make more sense to shield the second or third since they'll do more damage to the raid? The first overload is incredibly trivial damage.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimeez View Post
    Nope, I don't have cutting edge! This summer has been terrible for raid times and availability which is a total pain. I am pretty certain I'll see a similar situation with the need to pug it at some point. Rather infuriating!
    Oh I share your pain brother. After having a pisspoor attendance cause wipefest sunday the officers and raidleader nearly called a norm clear without any hc siegecrafter at all. I mamaged to convince them to do an hour of hc even without the best team, cause ffs as if we would have killed it in one night even with our fucking A team and then some. Even as it was, they only did half an hour before clearing norm because apparently the 30min of doing nothing at the start 0 while the officers decided what to do counted as that hour of practice. Needless to say I was very unimpressed, but ive been assured we are extending this week. If we dont, or if we have attendance problems im going to make them call a 25man hiatus until after 6.0, because I know that at least myself and our main tank are intending to get cutting edge, and without us they wont get very far. Its possible they might continue in a guild 10man, but the probability of doing that without offending the 15 people who dont get chosen is very low, so its most likely going to be a pug for me.
    What pissed me off the most is that half the raid was more concerned with their repair bills than the fact that we were going to completely waste a night without any hc practice. I was so close to losing it.
    [/RANT]
    In terms of the actusl fight, it looks like it wont be too hard once the belts team gets their shit sorted, but i cant be certain, we didnt really get that far because the belts team were still getting their shit sorted -_-
    Disc Priests: Just 2 mana trinkets away from becoming Withered

  15. #15
    Deleted
    Oh I share your pain brother.
    Sister! The pain is definitely shared though! <3 Unless you are doing a Desmond from Lost thing? Did he call everyone brother? I can't remember!

    In terms of the actusl fight, it looks like it wont be too hard once the belts team gets their shit sorted, but i cant be certain, we didnt really get that far because the belts team were still getting their shit sorted -_-
    Don't count on it being a quick process! In 10 man we ended up solo healing (Discipline - me!) most attempts and bringing an extra DPS to give leeway for both the belt situation and add control, neither of which were properly sorted after over 150 attempts despite us having more hunters than you can hit with one ornery cat. I think the closest we got was a second Magnetic Crush (~30%) before a belt fail led to a wipe. Of course, you could be better than us. That wouldn't be tough!

    Everything I have read suggests it should be easier on 25 man compared against 10 man with Klaxxi being more difficult on 25 man. I'm not sure how relevant that information is any more though!

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimeez View Post
    Everything I have read suggests it should be easier on 25 man compared against 10 man with Klaxxi being more difficult on 25 man. I'm not sure how relevant that information is any more though!
    We have 2 hunters in my guild do belt between them the whole time in 25m HC and keep 2 soulstones on them and it tends to be fine.

    In regards to Klaxxi. The hardest part is probably learning to not die. Then it's just a case of standing somewhere (away from kunchongs) sobbing over how everything is so spiky and how you have no mana because you panic and spam shields.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Atonement View Post
    Thanks for the help guys, this is exactly the kind of stuff I was looking for. Just a few things I'm unsure of:
    1) *snip: as mentioned, I did mean Magnetic Crush! *
    2) Is there a video I can see for the group-up strat? I'm not all that familiar with the various strats, I've mostly been researching the mechanics and such, and I usually use the VOX 10man hc raid guides by Gabestah on youtube because I find that he goes into excellent detail on the encounter and mechanics and includes a lot of finer details that most guides won't, but it doesn't help me with strats that are different for 25man.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JycuNitCCVw

    This was my guild's first kill. It is pretty old at this point (20th October 2013 was the date) but that's basically "our" group up strat. They will differ depending on how the tanks tank the adds and where the group stands, but that's the gist. Also, it has my perspective in it, but I was doing it differently at that point than I explained (I was PoHing a LOT in this video, which I don't really recommend).

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimeez View Post
    Sister! The pain is definitely shared though! <3 Unless you are doing a Desmond from Lost thing? Did he call everyone brother? I can't remember!
    Well, I guess the name kinda gives it away really. Yeah... yeah like Desmond... we'll go with that... yep.

    Don't count on it being a quick process! In 10 man we ended up solo healing (Discipline - me!) most attempts and bringing an extra DPS to give leeway for both the belt situation and add control, neither of which were properly sorted after over 150 attempts despite us having more hunters than you can hit with one ornery cat. I think the closest we got was a second Magnetic Crush (~30%) before a belt fail led to a wipe. Of course, you could be better than us. That wouldn't be tough!

    Everything I have read suggests it should be easier on 25 man compared against 10 man with Klaxxi being more difficult on 25 man. I'm not sure how relevant that information is any more though!
    I really don't know what to expect though. For a total bunch of casuals, my guild killed thok a lot faster than I was expecting, so I don't know what to expect anymore. As long as we are extending I'm okay with whatever happens, but I'll be mad if we don't at least try.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deleze View Post
    We have 2 hunters in my guild do belt between them the whole time in 25m HC and keep 2 soulstones on them and it tends to be fine.

    In regards to Klaxxi. The hardest part is probably learning to not die. Then it's just a case of standing somewhere (away from kunchongs) sobbing over how everything is so spiky and how you have no mana because you panic and spam shields.
    I usually just atonement harder when shit gets spikey. With Australian ping its much more effective than trying to PWS people.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tulani View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JycuNitCCVw

    This was my guild's first kill. It is pretty old at this point (20th October 2013 was the date) but that's basically "our" group up strat. They will differ depending on how the tanks tank the adds and where the group stands, but that's the gist. Also, it has my perspective in it, but I was doing it differently at that point than I explained (I was PoHing a LOT in this video, which I don't really recommend).
    Ah yeah I see. How many melee do you have for that strat?
    Also, nice video, tops to whoever put it together.
    Disc Priests: Just 2 mana trinkets away from becoming Withered

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimeez View Post
    Everything I have read suggests it should be easier on 25 man compared against 10 man with Klaxxi being more difficult on 25 man. I'm not sure how relevant that information is any more though!
    Quite relevant. Klaxxi on 25 is the hardest fight in SoO by a landslide (pretty much like Blackfuse on 10).

    In 25 Blackfuse is more about personal ability so survive stuff and follow a few simple rules in regards to mechanics. Biggest mistake people do on this fight is trying to min max dps at the expense of what they're actually supposed to do. This is the definite #1 cause to dying or failing on belts.

    Klaxxi is a whole different story, because of the wast array of mechanics that are present in the fight (and how they one shot you in 25) and also because you actually need to min max dps on certain parts.

  20. #20
    Deleted
    You mean they don't one shot on 10? :|

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