Why isnt Melee mobility being nerfed in WOD?

[rda]

Hugely? That implies that the melee had a problem before WOD then.

No, this doesn't imply it. Logic 101.

[PrairieChicken]

Honestly if holinka wakes up and deleting stupid abilities like BoS it will be fine.

[nightfalls]

So you're going to open your post with a strawman? The only damage sources are: A 3 minute cd that I repeat, IF YOU CAN'T FUCKING CC YOU DESERVE TO DIE. You can silence it, stun it, disarm it, poly it, fear it (thanks tremor change), snare/los it. anything.

If your teammates can't remove those CC's and give you uptime when you go offensive then you deserve to die, and over and over till you find better teammates. Strawman is strawman that goes both ways. If you're going up on a fear class and you have your CD's, wait for the fear cast (most instant fears going away) or just use the tremor preemptively (say against warrior if you know it's off CD). Also disarm is removed.

Covered maelstroms, covered purges, cleanse is not offensive but sure we can. totem projections sure, but a totem with no player pressure beside it is a weak excuse for a pet with significantly less health and no defensive measures. You can get rid of it before the shamans back if required. Defensive cooldowns for running in? Oh yeah, let's waste them there rather than to survive being trained (dps shamans survivability has not gone up significantly in wod), seems a great idea. Elementals spawn on your spot and will take just as long to run in, can be cc'd or their totems nuked like any other in the time frame as well. Wolves is your most viable suggestion but its also a cd.

Most CC's have a cast time in WoD something you ignore, interrupt that you locked out your opponent from all his damage and his defensives.

[Flaks]

Power balancing shifted? I'm not convinced, you'll see.

Be convinced.

This melee vs ranged bs has always been exactly that: bs.

The issues are on a class by class if not spec by spec basis.

Rogues and ferals are fucking retarded in the mobility department and it's more apparent than ever as MOST caster mobility has been reigned in. Those two classes have a near 100% uptime while rets wars (WoD nerfs) and dks lag waaaay behind.

Rets remain damn solid due to imba healing ATM and exceptional burst. Dks are below average and warriors are utter shit.

Meanwhile frost mages are ridiculous as ever and hunters remain mobile monsters as bm or sv and continue to have plenty of cc to boot even after scatter and pet cc removal. Locks are also up there as one of those classes that are almost exactly in the same place as they were in mop cc wise but got hit HARD on the mobility front leaving them balanced. Balance Druids happen to be the strongest caster atm; they really haven't lost shit overall. Ele plays solid as ever but didn't have great cc to begin with and lost the mobility it had. Spriests lost 1 cc (that's half of what they had) but aren't much worse for it due to how insane healing is.

Tldr as of right the only 2 melee anyone can be complaining about is rogues and ferals. Casters have an advantage over all other melee and most casters can still hold their own and even kill both of those melee as well.

[rda]

^^ Not a bad post, but you get several things wrong.

Eles aren't "solid as ever". They weren't "solid" in MoP up until the last two seasons, and the thing that made them "solid" was burst. Late gear made that burst less random so that you could rely on it, and that made eles viable for some setups, with the burst outweighing their numerous weaknesses (squishy, etc). That burst is gone in WoD, and eles are back on the bench. Much less damage during movement is icing on the cake and pushes eles harder onto the bench.

Similarly:

Warriors aren't utter shit.

Locks aren't exactly in the same place at all. Affli locks are great and even OP, but only compared to other casters. Destro and demo are bad.

Your tldr is completely wrong: casters DON'T have an advantage over all other melee apart from rogues and ferals as you suggest. Neither can they hold their own and "even kill" (love that).

[Packing an i5]

anymore nerfs to rogue mobility and I ask please buff Shuriken toss make it apply non lethals again and lower its cost.

[pootato]

Because melee is OP

[Deleted]

Melee Mobility will be out of control in WoD vs anyone but Mages in the caster area. Rogues and their new Clone can shut down casters for 12 seconds no problemo. Gonna be a fun few months until 7.1

[Anium]

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Similarly:

Warriors aren't utter shit.

Ummm, we do damage (aoe damage mostly, sigh), that's about all we bring to the group now. Not looking forward to getting kited into oblivion again.

[steale]

Melee Mobility will be out of control in WoD vs anyone but Mages in the caster area. Rogues and their new Clone can shut down casters for 12 seconds no problemo. Gonna be a fun few months until 7.1

Rogues can shut down casters, or anyone else for that matter, for 12 seconds right now. So can just about any other class with spammable CC. If only there existed some way of avoiding getting CC'd, some kind of trinket perhaps... Or maybe a cooldown or 10....

[Jessicka]

They nerfed the ability for all casters to cast and move at the same time and reduced all the instant spells, yet they have not reduced the mobilty all the melee classes have atm.

All this is going to result in is Warrior, dk and healer comp being the best for 3's as casters will get completely wrecked.

Because they actually only nerfed Warlocks' and Shamans' mobility. Fire and Frost Mages are virtually untouched, while Moonkin and Shadow Priests have actually seen improvements.

Real issue from a PvP standpoint is more about casters being disarmed of CC, meanwhile melee keep all their CC breaks.

[rda]

Ummm, we do damage (aoe damage mostly, sigh), that's about all we bring to the group now. Not looking forward to getting kited into oblivion again.

You don't get kited in WoD, you stay on target. It's trivial for any target now except maybe frost mages and hunters.

I agree spamming AOE for damage even on single target is stupid, that's something else.

I also agree having nothing to do except tunneling all the time is stupid. That's the issue with all specs now, welcome to the club.

[Yvaelle]

Spriests lost 1 cc (that's half of what they had) but aren't much worse for it due to how insane healing is.

Warriors are dealing far and away the most damage on beta currently - both sustain and burst - is uncounterable - while retaining pretty much all their control and defensive cooldowns from MoP.

Also Shadow's "insane healing"? I don't even know what you're talking about - we lost renew, our mitigation was nerfed from 61% on live, to 16% in WoD, we lost a major CC, ProM now has a cast time and drops shadowform (whatever little mitigation we have), flash heal isn't worth casting (20 flash heals to heal to full in WoD), and devouring plague's self-healing is nerfed compared to live (it might scale up to match or surpass by the end of the WoD expansion, but for the first couple seasons it's a nerf - for the first season it's a huge one).

[Veraki]

To be fair casters/ranged have had it relatively easy for a while (granted this is spec specific in cases but the post was also ambiguous in stating 'mele').

The recent dark legacy comic with the mage and rogue as an example of recognizing this.

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Also I thought warriors were top on damage atm on beta (I know number tuning very much in progress).To argue it's all counterable can be applied to all cases e.g casters being interrupted, magic dmg reduction abilities. DR exists and cd's are exactly that for a reason. All classes are counterable, admittedly some are better at countering some (the rock, paper, scissors situation we seem to have alot).

[Deleted]

Rogues can shut down casters, or anyone else for that matter, for 12 seconds right now. So can just about any other class with spammable CC. If only there existed some way of avoiding getting CC'd, some kind of trinket perhaps... Or maybe a cooldown or 10....

Even if you trinket out of one of them, the Clone will still hit you for the other ones soon after. Caster's are worse off, because the silence/stun combo doesn't DR off each other. So you get silenced, stunned, then silenced again and stunned again. WELCOME TO WORLD OF ROGUESFUCKINGEVERYWHERE.

[Deleted]

Range is everything. In range? You can do dps. Out of range? Can't do dps. Melee need to be able to stay in range and have tools to maintain that position. As Preach said in one of his rogue videos, "sprint is a dps increase". It is a dps increase due to the fact that if you can stay in range, you do dps. If you fall out of range when say, the boss moves, it is a dps loss. Sprint helps maintain melee range and thus an dps increase. Casters got their mobility nerfed because they have little to worry about. I can shoot arrows/bullets/bolts/spells X yards away at something and if it moves I just keep shooting because "lol I'm ranged."

Its not like most melee classes have now 100000 gap-closers. There is nothing hard for a melee since cataclysm to reach a ranged class except maybe hunter who is not affected by casting most of the time. A warrior can stick to a warlock, shaman,priest,holy paladin 90% of the fight. The only caster who doesn't suffer from gap closers is mage as usual.

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Warrior mobility has been nerfed probably most of all. WW monks, feral druids and rogues are the ones with OP mobility. I wonder why since armor hasn't mattered in years and will matter even less in WoD...



The subject is WoD, genius.

And in WOD warriors have pretty much a vast amount of mobility and gap closer. Same for rogues and monks and ferals.


Bye smartass

Dont forget your "don't nerf me bro" before 6.1

[Anium]

And in WOD warriors have pretty much a vast amount of mobility and gap closer. Same for rogues and monks and ferals.


Bye smartass

Dont forget your "don't nerf me bro" before 6.1

You're wrong about warriors and then you're wrong again bunching them with rogues and ferals. Save your smartass comments when what you write is actually correct and accurate.

[Wynta]

Originally there were two categories of classes: Melee and Ranged.

Melee had the strength of casting while moving with the down side of of limited range.

Ranged has the strength of range with the downside of having to stand and cast.

This simple dynamic slowly changed when ranged classes no longer had to cast with many instant spells and being able to move while casting.

While ranged got this benefit that completely nullified their weakness, melee got nothing.

The reduction of ranged mobility and reverting some of these cast changes to require standing still is actually bringing the dynamic back into balance.

[zenga]

While ranged got this benefit that completely nullified their weakness, melee got nothing.

Burst of speed, cloak and dagger, leap, double charge, double grip, paladin sprint, displacer beast ... not even gonna bring in immunities, while ret/enhance are almost half ranged classes. Gotta stay honest when you want to discuss stuff.

[Saberstrike]

Burst of speed, cloak and dagger, leap, double charge, double grip, paladin sprint, displacer beast ... not even gonna bring in immunities, while ret/enhance are almost half ranged classes. Gotta stay honest when you want to discuss stuff.

That's not the only thing though. I wrote this before - inherent part of ranged/melee balance is that melee should do more raw dps if allowed to stick to target while ranged to a little less but more consistently and at less danger.

That wasn't a thing when everyone suddenly had to do equal / competitive dps. So thus ranged retained their safer/more sustainable damage while melee were brought down, in turn getting a bandaid-fix of much higher uptime in pvp.