Muslims fare better in America than in Europe

[Sledfang]

is weird how people are afraid of muslims yet the Cristian religion is the one responsible for the most evil deeds in human history

Like you said, evil deeds in history. People are more concerned about right now.

I was raised Christian, but now have an agnostic attitude. However I was taught that The Bible is very symbolic and not every specific thing has to be adhered to dogmatically. The Koran on the other hand is very specific. Pray in this specific direction, this many times daily! Christians are more loosey-goosey. Islam is less open to compromise and interpretation because the author was so detail-oriented.

[Mgann-Morzz]

I don't think Muslims consider the Nation of Islam Muslims. I know of at least one faction of Nation of Islam who separated from the main group and became actual practicing Muslims.

Nation of Islam is pretty hard to consider a legitimate Islamic sect, they practically consider their founder to BE Allah.

[Liquidatom]

is weird how people are afraid of muslims yet the Cristian religion is the one responsible for the most evil deeds in human history

Maybe because the Christians aren't going around blowing people up and cutting people's fucking heads off. You think maybe that might have something to f*cking do with it?

[Mgann-Morzz]

Maybe because the Christians aren't going around blowing people up and cutting people's fucking heads off. You think maybe that might have something to f*cking do with it?

Well that's because the "Christian World" as it were is largely stable now, if the U.S. were to suddenly completely fall apart and become something like Somaila I bet you'd see some religious fundamentalist Warlords with how man Fundie Christians are around.

[GennGreymane]

Stick to immigration and integration

[Liquidatom]

Well that's because the "Christian World" as it were is largely stable now, if the U.S. were to suddenly completely fall apart and become something like Somaila I bet you'd see some religious fundamentalist Warlords with how man Fundie Christians are around.

I'm sorry, but I think that is complete bullcrap. The reality is that christians are not beheading people, and muslims are.

edited to include quote

[Endus]

Maybe because the Christians aren't going around blowing people up and cutting people's fucking heads off. You think maybe that might have something to f*cking do with it?

The IRA was a Christian organization that was pretty regularly blowing people up just a couple decades ago. Kony's Lord's Resistance Army is Christian, and has beheaded people (among plenty of other heinous acts).

So no. You're completely wrong. The reality is that fundamentalists of any stripe can motivate themselves to do reprehensible things. That's part of what goes into being fundamentalist. It doesn't have a darn thing to do with the specific faith in question.

[GennGreymane]

Thank you for being here Endus

Please stay on topic everyone. This is about immigration and integration. It is a common opinion (at least on this forum, and else where on the internet) that in Europe integration of people from the Muslim world is not up to par even though it is accepted that many European countries try to be very progressive in many of their policies. It is also very well known of how many feel Americans treat Muslims, especially after 9/11. Yet it is shown by this source, a very credible one that The U.S is currently a better area of integration of Muslims rather than Europe.

[Gourmandise]

Besides the internet, I have not had any hostile actions taken towards me in America for being a muslim. From what I hear I don't want to move to Europe more research is required...

[Deathpath]

Thank you for being here Endus

Please stay on topic everyone. This is about immigration and integration. It is a common opinion (at least on this forum, and else where on the internet) that in Europe integration of people from the Muslim world is not up to par even though it is accepted that many European countries try to be very progressive in many of their policies. It is also very well known of how many feel Americans treat Muslims, especially after 9/11. Yet it is shown by this source, a very credible one that The U.S is currently a better area of integration of Muslims rather than Europe.

Why are you thanking endus when his post had nothing to do with immigration?

[GennGreymane]

he is a mod. that is all.

[Liquidatom]

The IRA was a Christian organization that was pretty regularly blowing people up just a couple decades ago. Kony's Lord's Resistance Army is Christian, and has beheaded people (among plenty of other heinous acts).

So no. You're completely wrong. The reality is that fundamentalists of any stripe can motivate themselves to do reprehensible things. That's part of what goes into being fundamentalist. It doesn't have a darn thing to do with the specific faith in question.

Thanks moderator, I am aware of what has been done in Christianity's name. Please tell me how many people have the IRA blown up lately? How many acts of christian terrorism have been carried out in the last decade? How many building have Christians blown up in the last decade? How many people have been killed in the name of Jesus in the last decade? How many people beheaded?

The person I responded to thought that it was weird that people feared muslims more than the christians and I answered.

[Sledfang]

Please stay on topic everyone. This is about immigration and integration. It is a common opinion (at least on this forum, and else where on the internet) that in Europe integration of people from the Muslim world is not up to par even though it is accepted that many European countries try to be very progressive in many of their policies. It is also very well known of how many feel Americans treat Muslims, especially after 9/11. Yet it is shown by this source, a very credible one that The U.S is currently a better area of integration of Muslims rather than Europe.

One part of it could be that more fundamentalist groups in Europe are allowed to push the envelope (their particular agenda) more without as much of a public firestorm. I'm not exactly sure how European media reports news/events relating to Islam or Muslims. But in the US we have Fox and regardless of how much flak they get, they have an enormous magnifying glass and their not afraid to use it.

[Endus]

Why are you thanking endus when his post had nothing to do with immigration?

The purpose of the post was to head off that derailing into "Islam is a poopy face very bad no good religion" type stuff, and keep us on-topic.

For all its problems, the USA has been relatively open to immigrants, speaking of them as a nation (obviously, some regional issues, like with Latinos in areas near the Mexican border). Europe is seeing a big influx, and it's cracking open a bunch of latent hostilities. They got hauled out into the sun and popped like a boil in the USA decades back (again, for the most part; healing isn't done), but they've been festering in many parts of Europe, never having had a reason to flare up. Now, with the immigrant influx, they do. And that's where you see the social antagonism that leads to poor integration.

[Liquidatom]

Thank you for being here Endus.
Please stay on topic everyone. This is about immigration and integration.

Sorry didn't mean to derail your thread.

[klogaroth]

I do think that the answers to some of those questions might have something to do with media coverage, along with just the general outlook of the nation in question.

For example - % of Muslims who feel they are Muslim, not American/European. I'm a white British guy with British roots as far as I've cared to look back. I don't feel particularly British, or particularly European. I'm rather apathetic about nationalism. Maybe if I was religious I would identify more as that.

With the being very concerned about Islamic extremism, that's something that I also probably wouldn't have answered yes to either. I'm slightly concerned, yes. But not very concerned. Right now it doesn't really affect me all that much, so I have a slight concern that maybe one day it will, at which point I will be very concerned. I don't pay much attention to any sort of news story that tells me that there's someone in an explosive jacket around every corner. Chavs concern me more than terrorists.

Besides the internet, I have not had any hostile actions taken towards me in America for being a muslim. From what I hear I don't want to move to Europe more research is required...

At least as far as anyone has told me it's largely the same in the UK. At least where I live anyway.

There's the odd group of idiotic skinhead wannabe Nazis, although they're a tiny minority. What I did find rather entertaining is that there aren't even enough of them in one area to stage a decent sized crowd. They have to ship in skinheads from other neighbouring towns and cities on coaches.

The trouble is that if you're overseas you aren't going to hear stories like "Eid celebrations enjoyed by all of the local community". Those types of stories don't make it overseas. The ones that do are big news. And big news is normally bad news.

[Endus]

Thanks moderator, I am aware of what has been done in Christianity's name. Please tell me how many people have the IRA blown up lately? How many acts of christian terrorism have been carried out in the last decade? How many building have Christians blown up in the last decade? How many people have been killed in the name of Jesus in the last decade? How many people beheaded?

The person I responded to thought that it was weird that people feared muslims more than the christians and I answered.

Why does only the last decade matter? I've seen Christian terrorist attacks, in my lifetime. Claiming that Christians don't do that kind of stuff is just flat-out false.

And besides, even if you want to stick to just the last decade, again, the Lord's Resistance Army is a pretty clear example. Anders Breivik, in Norway, was at least in part motivated by Christianity. Anti-abortionists in the USA are still murdering abortion doctors due to the anti-abortionists' Christian beliefs; a Dr. Tiller was shot as recently as 2009, within your 10 year window. Heck, the KKK are explicitly Christian, if we really want to tie in there.

Yes. Christians engage in terrorism. So do Muslims. You can find extremists of most creeds. That doesn't mean the rest of those following those religions in any way share in the blame or share those violent predilections. Extremists are violent because of their extremism, not because of their faith. Trying to blame any specific faith is ridiculous.

And that very attitude is why some groups are facing such a struggle to integrate. It's hard to feel like you belong in your new homeland when your fellow citizens think you're going to flip out and blow something up just because of your religion.

[GennGreymane]

Endus as a mod please bring the subject back to immigration and integration. Do not continue the derailment please.

[Sledfang]

For example - % of Muslims who feel they are Muslim, not American/European. I'm a white British guy with British roots as far as I've cared to look back. I don't feel particularly British, or particularly European. I'm rather apathetic about nationalism. Maybe if I was religious I would identify more as that.

If your white, how can you not feel or identify as European? Particularly as a person of northern European descent.

Even if its from white guilt, you have to identify somehow or at least accept the label of being sort of "lost".

Unless your Divergent!

[RicardoZ]

Where I live there are a lot of Muslims, most of them immigrants from Iran, Saudi Arabia, and other nations in the Middle East. I've found them to be quite friendly, polite, hardworking, and positively contributing members of the community. At first it was kind of strange to see the women walking around the mall wearing the full-body burqas with their faces covered up and all that, but that's their personal religion and they're entitled to practice it.

Granted I'm never going to agree with them on issues like Israel or religion (I'm a Christian), but I don't have anything against them, they never did anything to me. I don't understand why Europeans have such a disdain for Muslim immigrants, I can't imagine they'd be very much different than the ones here, they come from the same countries.

When I lived in Chile this is something my wife and I talked about at length...she blamed all sorts of Chile's social ills on Peruvian illegal immigrants. Granted they do tend to act up quite a bit down there which I found to be in stark contrast to the Peruvians I'd met in the USA. They were generally quiet, respectful, deeply religious, family-oriented people. I don't understand why it is when they get to Chile that they act like the exact opposite of that, these are the same people from the same country, the same cities, maybe even the same communities, but when they emigrate to one country they act one way and totally different in another.