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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toobad View Post
    So after hours spent in Ashran, I can honestly say I still hate rogues with passion as I always did.

    Stealth is OP and as long as the stealth mechanics will stay like this, it will always be. After all these years, I still can't fathom who the fuck thought an actual total invisibility, which requires you to simply press one freaking button to activate, was a good idea. No duration, no "predator effect" like in some other games. No. just hit the button and whoo, you're invisible as long as you want.

    Back then, when you got sapped, used your trinket right away and spammed some AoE, you had a solid chance of unstealthing the fucker, since a) they were actually "sneaking" i.e. walking slowly in stealth, not running faster than a non-rogue does on a mount and b) sap required melee range, which honestly makes sense, but sure, dungeons were hard back in wotlk and required lotsa CC, right?

    Back to WoD, I don't know if they added some new snare/root immunity to rogues, or if that's just CC diminishing returns in action, but for the whole time, I managed to root one rogue.

    The only good thing is, they won't take you down in one stun combo, but something tells me that at the end of the expansion, it will be the same crap all over again... as it always was.
    if you ever used pvp trinket on sap and then aoe'd blindly and you still think that it was a pattern for them then... well that's why you've always hated them.

  2. #62
    To be fair I'm ok with rogues being God mode in wpvp and I dont even play one. There are 3 fields that blizzard never bothered to balance between classes - questing/leveling content, soloing old raids and wpvp. While rogues have long history of dominating wpvp they were always among worst classes to solo or raids and slowest/most handicapped when it comes to leveling. I think its a fair trade. Oh they also have hard times being the only pure melee dps class out there, let them have their fun in world pvp I say.

  3. #63
    Pandaren Monk meathead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal View Post
    Well I play a warrior and I almost felt bad for Rogues when I popped them out with Demo Shout, they always just seemed like a class that could get screwed hard the minute things didn't go according to plan. Warriors don't have Rend anymore though and Deep Wounds takes forever to tick so by then they are miles away thanks to Burst of Speed.

    Once again just give us some tools we can use to actually punish ganking Rogues that screwed with the wrong guy, potions, bombs, w/e.
    you have to remember the game was different and tuned better back in the day,like BC.for example plate Armour use to mean something,there was a huge difference between plate and leather.sadly thats not the case any more,armour does not mean jack shit and everyone has the same amount of hit-points.rogues had stealth/cc and opening burst, but were on the soft side as far as taking damage.thats not the case anymore,everyone and everything is more of less the same.

    a warrior had more hit points and Armour then a rogue.if said rogue wants to try an gank/open on a arms warrior,a good rogue knew not to stand in front of him and dont let bleeds get on you if u need to get away.warriors did not need alot of slef heals and tools to take on a rogue.all we needed was our big health pools,plate armour and OP.

    vanish/stealth needs a counter and bleeds work great doing that.good rogues will open try and get a kill and if they cant they run off and heal up.they usually stay close by and watch you try to eat or heal yourself then they jump on your when your cds and health is low re starting the fight when they want,thats not good game play.good game play would be having a chance at stopping said rogue from vanishing and running off to heal up.rogues can pick and choose there fights,they should not be able to pick and choose how they end.

    no reason to feel sorry for a bad rogue getting pulled out of stealth.everything is supposed to have a counter,just like a pally bubble.

  4. #64
    Oh come on! It's not like we're back in BC where stun-locking was an actual thing.

    Rogues can choose their fights, that's always been part of the class. Being pretty bad at the start of the expansion is also part of the class so if you're good at PVP you'll probably take them out anyway for the first patch. At the very start of MoP I couldn't even out DPS second wind. Even running away with vanish doesn't clear all the dots and vanish is buggy at the best of times.

    Sorry, but everyone saying Rogues are "WPVP God mode" just MASSIVELY need to learn to play PVP.


    Hell lets just take vanish off Rogues so that people don't feel bad that a Rogue ran away; we can give an improved version to Hunters instead.
    Last edited by rogueMatthias; 2014-09-10 at 10:51 PM.
    BASIC CAMPFIRE for WARCHIEF UK Prime Minister!

  5. #65
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    you have to remember the game was different and tuned better back in the day,like BC.for example plate Armour use to mean something,there was a huge difference between plate and leather.sadly thats not the case any more,armour does not mean jack shit and everyone has the same amount of hit-points.rogues had stealth/cc and opening burst, but were on the soft side as far as taking damage.thats not the case anymore,everyone and everything is more of less the same.

    a warrior had more hit points and Armour then a rogue.if said rogue wants to try an gank/open on a arms warrior,a good rogue knew not to stand in front of him and dont let bleeds get on you if u need to get away.warriors did not need alot of slef heals and tools to take on a rogue.all we needed was our big health pools,plate armour and OP.

    vanish/stealth needs a counter and bleeds work great doing that.good rogues will open try and get a kill and if they cant they run off and heal up.they usually stay close by and watch you try to eat or heal yourself then they jump on your when your cds and health is low re starting the fight when they want,thats not good game play.good game play would be having a chance at stopping said rogue from vanishing and running off to heal up.rogues can pick and choose there fights,they should not be able to pick and choose how they end.

    no reason to feel sorry for a bad rogue getting pulled out of stealth.everything is supposed to have a counter,just like a pally bubble.
    Getting armor back as a stat in WoD though, for tanks. And lol, BC better tuned?

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironjaws-Mike View Post
    Getting armor back as a stat in WoD though, for tanks. And lol, BC better tuned?
    Lol Mace Spec Stormherald Warriors.

    But they had less viable PvP classes though thus easier to balance. Were hunters even viable at all then?

  7. #67
    High Overlord
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    The one funny thing most Rogues forget when fight a DK, especially a UNHOLY DK, is that I can reapply diseased THROUGH his cloak, so if he pops it, he better have popped evasion or bug out, because he's gonna get dotted right back up

  8. #68
    Pandaren Monk meathead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironjaws-Mike View Post
    Getting armor back as a stat in WoD though, for tanks. And lol, BC better tuned?
    armour has been normalized in wow way back in wrath,same goes for hit -points.are you trying to say thats a good thing?yes armour use to make a difference but not any more.

    yes BC pvp was far far better then what you have on live.or are you trying to say pvp on live is in a good spot?hell i willing to bet there are more classes and specs in pvp now then ever before.thats does noit mean pvp is the best its ever been.it simply means that there are more classes and specs in game now then there was back in BC.that in turn would mean more classes in pvp right?just like when dks came out in wrath = more classes in game.mop got a new class= more classes in game.

    say what you want but anyone with half a brain knows BC was wows prime years.raiding was hard core as was the pvp.the game had pvp and pve specs,everyone knew arms was for pvp and fury was pve and they were balanced for it.theres a reason why blizz is trying to "re-live" BC come next x-pac.

    ask yourself this-why do you think wrath sold so well?it was off BC's rep and everyone knew it was a great game.wrath is where wow started to change,started its decline.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal View Post
    Lol Mace Spec Stormherald Warriors.

    But they had less viable PvP classes though thus easier to balance. Were hunters even viable at all then?
    never said BCs pvp was perfect,just said its the best pvp wow has had.and lmfao if you think mace spec/stormherald stuns are anywhere near as bad as the CC shit storm thats in game atm.
    Last edited by meathead; 2014-09-12 at 12:33 PM.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    Rogues can choose their fights, that's always been part of the class. Being pretty bad at the start of the expansion is also part of the class so if you're good at PVP you'll probably take them out anyway for the first patch. At the very start of MoP I couldn't even out DPS second wind. Even running away with vanish doesn't clear all the dots and vanish is buggy at the best of times.
    So much this. Watching a rogue try to dps through Second Wind was like watching old people screw - it took forever, and one party would probably die of old age before it was over.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  10. #70
    Deleted
    Solving the wpvp problem with Rogues is pretty easy, just add a consumable bleed item that applies a tiny dot that ticks for awhile and is considered Physical.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by vexew View Post
    Solving the wpvp problem with Rogues is pretty easy, just add a consumable bleed item that applies a tiny dot that ticks for awhile and is considered Physical.
    I can still escape quite easily with bleeds on me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  12. #72
    vanish should last 1 second
    burst of speed should have a cooldown or much higher energy cost

    sprint lowered to 25 second cd.

    rogue balanced.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Felfury View Post
    The problem is, Rogues need those tools in competetive PvP where it matters. Breaking them for a kind of PvP that very few people partake in and which is rarely if ever fair anyway, is pointless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serratth View Post
    Rogues always sprinting now is a product of the Ranged/Melee arms race. It started with mages getting blink and freeze and have quickly blown out of control. Thats why warriors can charge 2 times in a row, heroic leap, intercept. And if they still end up behind they can cover themself with Spell Reflect followed by Mass Spell Reflect. Or throw a ranged stun at their targets. Its not really only rogues that got insane stuff like that.
    I think you guys are both missing the point. As many of us said already Rogues are fine in a controlled environment. In an Arena or a Duel when that damn Rogues disappears he has to come back at some point and finish it win or lose. In WPvP if they attack you and realize (o snapz I"m getting pwned!) They can just run away indefinitely and rarely be punished for picking the wrong fight.

    Worst part is they can just come back to you at a more opportune time when your at like half health or have a lot of mobs on you and kill you then. Now that's nothing new but once again it seems nearly impossible to get retribution on these guys now. So were just asking for consumables that can be used outside of Duels/BGs/Arenas that can allow you to deal with that. Or is there any I don't know of by chance?

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    I hate rogues with a fucking burning passion deep in my soul.

    Fucking class.

    But it's how they work.

    Please stop ganking us
    Sincerely,
    Every Elemental Shaman ever.
    But... It's, It's just so easyyyyyyyyyyyyy

  15. #75
    Deleted
    I don't think rogues are overpowered now (except during patch 5.3 was it?) but the philosophy behind stealth mode sure has changed a lot.

    I remember when stealth had drawbacks: reduced movement speed, possibility of being noticed if moving too close for the target. Now there is no movement penalty from stealth and there is even a talent to go faster than without stealth! Doesn't make any sense but okay lets say the other talents in that row are better, it still remains that stealth allows you to move at normal speed.

    And the most annoying problem is that stealth seems to have been improved over the last expansions to the point of not being a sort of camouflage anymore but pure invisibility. As a hunter even with the stealth radar that improves my detection I can't even see a rogue that is half a meter from me when a few years ago a hunter could detect a rogue or feral even 10 meters away if the rogue wasn't cautious and moved too much. Now no matter the traps, the flare and AOE it seems like rogues just don't care about that they are invisible and in a pretty confortable spot.

    Also, when a rogue can so easily stop en entire group in arathi bassin or gilneas from taking a point even when people are spamming AOE's around the flag,what the heck is that?

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    In world pvp, a rogue can't lose a fight.
    He either wins, or he stealths away and it ends in a draw.

    In WoD, be prepared to be camped by rogues 24/7 in quest area's untill you throw your pc out of the window :P
    Lets not forget about druids now. They've been known to be able to get away in a pinch. Monks have pretty good mobility too.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    I hate rogues with a fucking burning passion deep in my soul.

    Fucking class.

    But it's how they work.

    Please stop ganking us
    Sincerely,
    Every Elemental Shaman ever.

    I will have great pleasure ganking every mother f*****g last one of you

    Relevant:

  18. #78
    ya rogue are very vulnerable. w/o those tools they don't stand much of a chance.

  19. #79
    Deleted
    Rogues are just a waste of energy (no pun intended) in World PvP, I usually just CC them and run off. I really can't be bothered attacking just to have them cloak > vanish > heal back to full and try again in 2 mins.

  20. #80
    The Lightbringer
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    They try to gank me and fail a lot of the time. I mean, if they're gonna win I just bubble hearth. Hell if I think I can't win without bubble because they're good, I bubble hearth anyway.
    Paladin Bash has spoken.

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