WoDs stat system for blood flawed?

[Grishnok]

So Im confused. Blizzards argument for blood being so slow and having large areas of downtime is we dont have enough haste on our gear yet.

Well how are DKs supposed to stack haste, mastery and multistrike at the same time while also getting bonus armor and versatility to take less damage?

Im confused.

[Gamidroon]

I think it might be personal preference. Not sure though.

[Nomisno]

You won't need to stack a single stat because all stats will totally be on par (((((:

[Keiyra]

So Im confused. Blizzards argument for blood being so slow and having large areas of downtime is we dont have enough haste on our gear yet.

Well how are DKs supposed to stack haste, mastery and multistrike at the same time while also getting bonus armor and versatility to take less damage?
Im confused.

If you were able to get all the stats you wanted in the first tier...there wouldnt be much room to grow for following tiers would there? Seriously its like no one remembers what the first tier of an expansion is like.

[Faenlyn]

So Im confused. Blizzards argument for blood being so slow and having large areas of downtime is we dont have enough haste on our gear yet.

Well how are DKs supposed to stack haste, mastery and multistrike at the same time while also getting bonus armor and versatility to take less damage?

Im confused.

Blood doesnt get faster from stacking haste. It will get faster from more multistrike which will generate more RP. Blood doesnt actually have that much downtime. With NP it is overflowing with RP for DC

[chibichibiko]

I'll offer this: You need 3 types of stats as blood: Control, DR, Filler.

You'll want armor on all your jewelry. It's just weighted so well that it won't be avoided all expansion long.
You only need/want as much haste/mastery as you require to be able to control your spikes. I'm guessing we'll all have our own personal, subjective standards for what's enough. I'm personally feeling like 4:3 Mastery:haste feels like what I want, but there'll be a point where I will abandon both of these as prioritized stats.
After you have enough of that, you'll seek out versatility/avoidance/crit/leech to reduce your overall damage taken. I'll probably prefer Vers>crit>leech>avoid (damage matters, and I prefer consistent stats over inconsistent ones at lower gear levels). Once healers can keep you up, this category has hit its plateau too (until you can stack enough that you can reduce your healer roster).
Multistrike is for fun after those more imperative (and subjective) needs are met. It has the least direct effect on your survival, but it fuels the feedback loop, and more of it means less haste required. We won't be able to get enough of it at the start of the first tier to jump directly into stacking it, though. While it's our attuned stat, I tend to think that MS will be 'the leftover investment after we have what we need to live'.

+movement speed is an outlier. You probably don't need it on any gear, but QoL stats like it are such that you'll probably 'overvalue' it.

So basically, Every stat is good, some are preferrable to others, and you'll move through a series of personally defined plateaus or inflection points where you will change your preferences. So I'll generally disagree with you on the idea of our being flawed; Blood might be one of the best-designed specs stat-wise because its values change based on situation, gear level, player skill, and healer setup. It's not a lazy/simple 'stack crit for fire mages' kind of thing.

[Zka]

What's the flaw here? You cannot stack 5 stats at once?

[Faenlyn]

I'll offer this: You need 3 types of stats as blood: Control, DR, Filler.

You'll want armor on all your jewelry. It's just weighted so well that it won't be avoided all expansion long.
You only need/want as much haste/mastery as you require to be able to control your spikes. I'm guessing we'll all have our own personal, subjective standards for what's enough. I'm personally feeling like 4:3 Mastery:haste feels like what I want, but there'll be a point where I will abandon both of these as prioritized stats.
After you have enough of that, you'll seek out versatility/avoidance/crit/leech to reduce your overall damage taken. I'll probably prefer Vers>crit>leech>avoid (damage matters, and I prefer consistent stats over inconsistent ones at lower gear levels). Once healers can keep you up, this category has hit its plateau too (until you can stack enough that you can reduce your healer roster).
Multistrike is for fun after those more imperative (and subjective) needs are met. It has the least direct effect on your survival, but it fuels the feedback loop, and more of it means less haste required. We won't be able to get enough of it at the start of the first tier to jump directly into stacking it, though. While it's our attuned stat, I tend to think that MS will be 'the leftover investment after we have what we need to live'.

+movement speed is an outlier. You probably don't need it on any gear, but QoL stats like it are such that you'll probably 'overvalue' it.

So basically, Every stat is good, some are preferrable to others, and you'll move through a series of personally defined plateaus or inflection points where you will change your preferences. So I'll generally disagree with you on the idea of our being flawed; Blood might be one of the best-designed specs stat-wise because its values change based on situation, gear level, player skill, and healer setup. It's not a lazy/simple 'stack crit for fire mages' kind of thing.

MS benefits from Blood Rites which causes your auto attack multistrikes have a chance to generate 15 Runic Power. Runic Power is used for DC. Enhanced Death Coil perk causes your Death Coil to also grant you Shadow of Death. Shadow of Death increases your maximum health by 5% for 30 sec. Without the runic power you will be sitting on a lot of downtime. You cant stack enough haste to make a substantial difference. But stacking MS allows you till fill your rotation and buff your health.

Thats why a lot of recommendations right now are for BA > MS > Mastery

But I agree with you 100% that the fact that we are debating which stats to take means they did a very good job giving them all value and its going to be personal preference how you want to set up your Blood DK

[Blur4stuff]

i'm confused more about runes than stats. on other tanks when you need to use a defensive cooldown it's available no matter what. shield wall doesn't cost rage. barkskin doesn't cost rage. etc... yet rune tap costs a blood rune. which we already need to be using to generate enough runic power so we don't stand around auto-attacking for 5 seconds straight.

is the intention that we always keep a blood rune open? are we suppose to save 5+ blood taps just in case? which would slow down rotation anyways.

i don't get why rune tap costs anything at all. and then, of course, most of the other tanks have an attack that doesn't require resources at all with no cooldown or a short one.

[Keiyra]

i'm confused more about runes than stats. on other tanks when you need to use a defensive cooldown it's available no matter what. shield wall doesn't cost rage. barkskin doesn't cost rage. etc... yet rune tap costs a blood rune. which we already need to be using to generate enough runic power so we don't stand around auto-attacking for 5 seconds straight.

is the intention that we always keep a blood rune open? are we suppose to save 5+ blood taps just in case? which would slow down rotation anyways.

i don't get why rune tap costs anything at all. and then, of course, most of the other tanks have an attack that doesn't require resources at all with no cooldown or a short one.

You are looking at it wrong, shield wall and barkskin are akin to your vamp blood, IBF, and bone shield - none of them have costs, only CDs.

Rune tap is much more like Deathstrike, Savage Defense, Frenzied Regen, Shield Block, Shield Barrier, Guard, BoK etc - these consume resources (some which have CD's while others dont) and are all part of the activate mitigation system.

[Blur4stuff]

You are looking at it wrong, shield wall and barkskin are akin to your vamp blood, IBF, and bone shield - none of them have costs, only CDs.

Rune tap is much more like Deathstrike, Savage Defense, Frenzied Regen, Shield Block, Shield Barrier, Guard, BoK etc - these consume resources (some which have CD's while others dont) and are all part of the activate mitigation system.

yes i considered that, but those abilities can be used without it interfering with everything else. for example, a druid doesn't have to stop using lacerate in order to free up a spot for regen. and regen/shield barrier's cost is far less than a blood rune without having such a long recharge.

if rune tap were more like regen/shield barrier then it would cost runic power

[Faenlyn]

yes i considered that, but those abilities can be used without it interfering with everything else. for example, a druid doesn't have to stop using lacerate in order to free up a spot for regen. and regen/shield barrier's cost is far less than a blood rune without having such a long recharge.

if rune tap were more like regen/shield barrier then it would cost runic power

We already have a full complement of defensive abilities to match other classes. Rune tap was added extra to be a DPS vs Defense tradeoff. The prior heal yourself rune tap wasnt used as much. So they changed it to use that blood rune to either mitigate some damage or Blood Boil. There was a tweet about it asking why it should cost a blood rune and compete with offensive use of the blood rune and the response was that was exactly the intended point. To create a choice.

The point being that Keiyra was making is we already have a full complement of defensive CDs that match those of other classes. Blood Tap is a WoD gift and to complain about it trying to make it other than what it is, is really looking the gift horse in the mouth kind of behavior.

[Deleted]

I'd likely be doing some Armor/Multistrike/Haste thing, with Mastery and Versa on the side after testing so far. All stats are desirable, some multi'll be nice just to have huge pools of runic, and more runes and some Haste to make some ends meet, it felt just slightly slow, but it'll be k when haste gets me near the baseline MoP rune recharge rates.

Haven't seen how Shadow of Death exactly works, but it doesn't seem to have much gameplay to it, since Death Coil is pretty much all or huge majority of what the Runic Power goes into, unless you're into Conversion, and Breath is a cooldown. Death Coil is spammy, 30 adds on what's left, you end up with some endless Shadow of Death buff. Shadow of Death is really just a +5% HP passive for doing your rotation.