Why would anyone support entry-level (i.e. fast food, retail, etc.) unions?

[Bullettime]

See, there's that random number tossed out again. Not you, nor anyone has given or can give a definitive answer as to how much the cost will increase by. There is no guarantee that it wont simply increase by enough, even if its less then the pay increase, to still be higher.



And how does that effect us on the global scale? If we simply keep decreasing the value of each dollar, what effect does that have on a global scale. I don't want to get to a point where they have to start printing 1million dollar bills.



You say those names as if they are to be known. No I do not have those two on ignore nor have I ever seen them post personally.

We had been increasing it regularly for years with no impact. It wasn't until the last 10 years that it wasn't being kept up.

Also, how exactly is it right that the government has to subsidize company labor costs because they don't pay a living wage? The entire purpose of the minimum wage's creation was to provide every full time worker enough money to maintain a basic standard of living with a roof over their head and food in their stomach. It was doing its job up until about 10-12 years ago when they stopped bothering and began brainwashing people into believing it's a bad thing.

There have been articles linked here a million times by Endus and Masark to research done by credible economists that even prove that the prices of goods and services will not raise much at all, proven by history, the increase in buying power, and how little employee labor costs actually are to a company. I'm just too lazy to go find them to link them again.

[Elegiac]

See, there's that random number tossed out again. Not you, nor anyone has given or can give a definitive answer as to how much the cost will increase by. There is no guarantee that it wont simply increase by enough, even if its less then the pay increase, to still be higher.

Firstly, what is "enough"? Secondly, what part of there will always be an increase in buying power escapes you?

And how does that effect us on the global scale? If we simply keep decreasing the value of each dollar, what effect does that have on a global scale. I don't want to get to a point where they have to start printing 1million dollar bills.

We can always remonetize if the denominations get too high.

You say those names as if they are to be known. No I do not have those two on ignore nor have I ever seen them post personally.

There's your issue.

[Zantos]

We had been increasing it regularly for years with no impact. It wasn't until the last 10 years that it wasn't being kept up.

Also, how exactly is it right that the government has to subsidize company labor costs because they don't pay a living wage? The entire purpose of the minimum wage's creation was to provide every full time worker enough money to maintain a basic standard of living with a roof over their head and food in their stomach. It was doing its job up until about 10-12 years ago when they stopped bothering and began brainwashing people into believing it's a bad thing.

Thats a debate that is not needed with me good sir. I understand all this. I am just wanting to know what the exact expected % of increase the cost we may see. Mostly because people toss out random numbers saying "well it'll only increase by 10%". I don't like people tossing out random numbers with nothing to back it up.

I would like to know how they came to the conclusion that prices would only increase by 10% and not more.

[Bullettime]

The actual number is in the neighborhood of 8 to 10%, despite what some people throw out, whether higher or lower. Would have to go find the articles again.

[Zantos]

Firstly, what is "enough"?

Increases by a smaller amount then the pay increase, but remains at a a height that is still not offset by the pay increase.

Secondly, what part of there will always be an increase in buying power escapes you?

Obviously the same part that escapes you when I say I understand there is a buying increase, but I do not know for sure that the increase in buying power will be able to offset the unavoidable increase in prices that will occur as a result.

We can always remonetize if the denominations get too high.

Again, what impact globally would that have?

There's your issue.

My issue lies not in my unknowing of two random individuals who seem to be the only ones able to be pointed to as giving any resources, but in the inability for anyone else other then these two to give a source for their views.

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The actual number is in the neighborhood of 8 to 10%, despite what some people throw out, whether higher or lower. Would have to go find the articles again.

How do they know that though? I mean, every state has varying minimum wages as well as some not having it at all. Would those 8-10% be dependent upon the state? Is that on a national level that the increase of a solid 10% would happen? Also, is that an estimate for one store like say, how much Walmart would increase or a rough estimate on how much every store would be expected to increase.

[Elegiac]

Increases by a smaller amount then the pay increase, but remains at a a height that is still not offset by the pay increase.

You're clearly not understanding the word 'offset'.

[Zantos]

You're clearly not understanding the word 'offset'.

And you're clearly not understanding that you have failed, and continue to do so, to show that it would be Enough to actually offset the price increase. Especially considering the fact that the pay increase would be so large that it is in a lot of cases at least a 100% increase. I could easily see company's having a knee jerk reaction and increasing prices too much that the pay increase helps not. Or move out of country, like others do. Causing a rise in unemployment on account of their greed.

[Deleted]

Currently got a Job at KFC because "LolneedexperienceinXjob" and I tell you Minimum wage for the hours they provide is terrible.

Retail and Food Service hours are downright crushing, and with next to no compensation. I don't see how needless Bureaucracy jobs should have more of a say in their pay and hours than people doing actual work.

[Ecwfrk]

If they actually did what they say they are meant to do and represented the workers, entry-level jobs are the place Unions would be the most useful as such workers are the most commonly exploited by employers.

But as the OP said, Unions tend to be only about enriching the Union administration and the workers are just the weapon they use against employers to get what they want. They sell stupid people the idea that they'll enable them to get paid the same and receive the same kinds of benefits as a much more skilled worker without having to have any job skills. But it's a lie. Places like McDonald's and Walmart are already looking out for their workers, by not eliminating them.

I've seen completely automated fast food systems. Machines take the orders, cook and assemble any product on the menu and deliver it without any human workers needed. They're fully contained systems that are about as big as 6 or so Redbox kiosks and only cost in the mid to upper hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's comparable to the costs of building a restaurant intended for human workers but with much lower future overhead costs due to the elimination of almost all workers and also has other benefits such as product consistency and mostly eliminating the high rate of error humans in such jobs typically exhibit.
And many Walmarts already have self checkouts where one employee handles numerous checkout lanes simultaneously. And there's more advanced systems that could eliminate the need for checkers entirely. Hell, with things like RFID chips they can already know what a person has in their cart before they ever get to a checkout line. It wouldn't be difficult to couple that with a smart payment system and an "what's in your cart and how much you'll be charged when you leave" app so people can just load up a cart and walk out the door without having to bother checking out at all.

The only reason you don't see those systems in use already is that retrofitting old properties is more expensive than new construction and human workers are still cheaper than retrofitting tens of thousands of existing properties, using them in new construction without retrofitting would break uniformity and that's what's helped them squash their independent competitors, the manufacturers of such systems aren't currently equipped to produce them on the scale they'd be needed to supply someone like McDonald's, and the most important reason, it'd likely generate a massive amount of bad PR which could lead to all kinds of fuckery if the bureaucrats stepped into it.
But if the price of employees were driven up by a large amount by unionization, those negatives wouldn't be as compelling as the loss of profits and competitiveness a huge bump in their employee costs would cause them, especially if the Arby's next door or the independent deli down the street wasn't affected.

[Raiju]

Because that has been the case in every country with a minimum wage every time it was raised?

It's also mathematically impossible for prices to increase proportionately to wages since production costs do not determine the price of the good or service in question.

They do on the low end, does walmart sell low end stuff?

[Elegiac]

And you're clearly not understanding that you have failed, and continue to do so, to show that it would be Enough to actually offset the price increase. Especially considering the fact that the pay increase would be so large that it is in a lot of cases at least a 100% increase. I could easily see company's having a knee jerk reaction and increasing prices too much that the pay increase helps not. Or move out of country, like others do. Causing a rise in unemployment on account of their greed.

And again, production costs do not determine price. They can raises prices by that amount but they'll put themselves out of business.

Why is it that countries with higher minimum wages have lower unemployment, then? Same with most of the states in the US.

[Raiju]

And again, production costs do not determine price. They can raises prices by that amount but they'll put themselves out of business.

Why is it that countries with higher minimum wages have lower unemployment, then? Same with most of the states in the US.

And again, they do on the low end. When you are selling volume and making (using UK as example) a couple P per sale - anything that increases production costs requires looking at the numbers and possibly upping them. From Cookware to USB sticks. Low end is production cost driven.

It's only once you leave the bottom bracket is there the 'standard' 20-80% profit margin on general goods.

[Elegiac]

And again, they do on the low end. When you are selling volume and making (using UK as example) a couple P per sale - anything that increases production costs requires looking at the numbers and possibly upping them. From Cookware to USB sticks. Low end is production cost driven.

It's only once you leave the bottom bracket is there the 'standard' 20-80% profit margin on general goods.

Which ignores the role demand plays in prices; that alone precludes any increase in wages being met with a commensurate increase in price.