Mage PvP Question

[-Zait-]

So I tend to pretty much only do PvP. My main is a Warlock and I love playing affliction/destruction on him, and I've always wanted to try a Mage, and I think i'll do that in WoD.

From what I remember, and this was a while ago so I don't know how true it stands, but Fire was the spec that was the hardest to master but most satisfying to play, Frost was always pure good, and Arcane was bland with a few buttons.

I just want opinions from mages that PvP on how they play.

[Polarthief]

PvP only? We suck, period.

- Arcane still doesn't have the tools to live or deal enough damage without easily getting shut down (at least Slow isn't limited to 1 target anymore and AO is fun).
- Fire lost CoC, Comb stun/initial damage, and Comb is even worse than live (if you can believe that). In addition, dispels shut it down instantly (both offensive on your Hot Streaks and defensive on your DoTs).
- Frost lost a decent Deep Freeze and now it's only useful for CC (no longer for damage since it breaks like any other freeze effect), lost BF from instants/bombs; doesn't do enough damage without standing still (and Melee lost no mobility, so good luck casting Frostbolt).
- Oh and nearly every one of our defensive spells (like Alter Time) is dispellable. We also have little to no self-healing.

So yeah. Don't even bother because they didn't take much time to give us PvP-viability.


PvE-wise though, we're actually kinda fun.

[-Zait-]

PvP only? We suck, period.

- Arcane still doesn't have the tools to live or deal enough damage without easily getting shut down (at least Slow isn't limited to 1 target anymore and AO is fun).
- Fire lost CoC, Comb stun/initial damage, and Comb is even worse than live (if you can believe that). In addition, dispels shut it down instantly (both offensive on your Hot Streaks and defensive on your DoTs).
- Frost lost a decent Deep Freeze and now it's only useful for CC (no longer for damage since it breaks like any other freeze effect), lost BF from instants/bombs; doesn't do enough damage without standing still (and Melee lost no mobility, so good luck casting Frostbolt).
- Oh and nearly every one of our defensive spells (like Alter Time) is dispellable. We also have little to no self-healing.

So yeah. Don't even bother because they didn't take much time to give us PvP-viability.


PvE-wise though, we're actually kinda fun.

Ah, bummer man. Hopefully they get tweaked more for the release of WoD to be viable.

[Polarthief]

Ah, bummer man. Hopefully they get tweaked more for the release of WoD to be viable.

Hopefully, but I wouldn't hold your breath. We still have some PvE issues that I believe are getting resolved first. PvP is a much bigger story and at the very least, we need some dispel protection (both offensive AND defensive) for our Fire DoTs/effects, procs, defensives; I mean, we're completely crippled by it. Only then can we maybe get the ball rolling. Melee are currently out of control with mobility (as only casters were nerfed while melee and self-healing were barely touched), so we got the extreme short end of the stick atm.

But, there's still 1 month left of beta and 2 months left til launch, so, we can only hope.

[pfbe]

In addition, dispels shut it down instantly (both offensive on your Hot Streaks and defensive on your DoTs).

which is something we can't even counter with a preemptive silence anymore because... no more silence. Oh, wait, let me hard cast that frostjaw *kek*.

[Polarthief]

which is something we can't even counter with a preemptive silence anymore because... no more silence. Oh, wait, let me hard cast that frostjaw *kek*.

With how broken Melee is right now, Ice Ward is looking like the best choice, even moreso if you use Ice Nova since it replaces Frost Nova, meaning your only other Freeze DR will come from Pet Freeze.

But yeah, they stripped pretty much everything they could from us and left us with no way to actually counter our weaknesses.

[PPN]

PvP only? We suck, period.

- Arcane still doesn't have the tools to live or deal enough damage without easily getting shut down (at least Slow isn't limited to 1 target anymore and AO is fun).
- Fire lost CoC, Comb stun/initial damage, and Comb is even worse than live (if you can believe that). In addition, dispels shut it down instantly (both offensive on your Hot Streaks and defensive on your DoTs).
- Frost lost a decent Deep Freeze and now it's only useful for CC (no longer for damage since it breaks like any other freeze effect), lost BF from instants/bombs; doesn't do enough damage without standing still (and Melee lost no mobility, so good luck casting Frostbolt).
- Oh and nearly every one of our defensive spells (like Alter Time) is dispellable. We also have little to no self-healing.

So yeah. Don't even bother because they didn't take much time to give us PvP-viability.


PvE-wise though, we're actually kinda fun.

I dont see it as bad as you. But you have a point.

One thing you fogot to mention in general is, what i think its a huge impact is that Alter Time doesnt count anymore for offensive abilities.

Arcane was never good for pvp because you have to cast, i mean you can totally forget that. You dont have the time for that.
Fire, they removed initial dmg from Combustion but gave it 100% more dmg, its useless if dispelled yeah. Since fire is all about combustions they should somehow fix it...give a penalty for dispel or something like that.
Frost, the insane AT comco is gone, no instant pom, shatter removed...well that will be boring^^

You just need to find new ways to play. It depends a lot on the other classes how strong they are. All classes lost a lot of theit tools.

[pfbe]

Two things, PPN:

Arcane was never good for pvp because you have to cast, i mean you can totally forget that. You dont have the time for that.

Arcane played very differently from other specs, but it had some pvp usage - the most popular of which was as a burst element on RBG's in killing flag carriers. Full stack ABar and Frost Bomb on a deep freeze target was incredibly potent. It did need the rest of the team to babysit the mage, but it saw some play in that environment.

Frost, the insane AT comco is gone, no instant pom, shatter removed...well that will be boring^^

Frost kept shatter - in fact, they made it frost-only. That's the only reason mage pvp feedback isn't 100% bad: frost's foundation is still there, guaranteed crits/burst on demand, instant and undispellable. They did fiddle with shatter's numbers, though, I think the crit cap is now higher, and with no reforge it might be harder to get there (hopefully not, otherwise fire is really really in the dumps).

[Deleted]

arcane is pvp viable in wod (issue is getting stacks which isn't very easy since ABl cast time is super long)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co8pwFiLOyI

[Polarthief]

arcane is pvp viable in wod (issue is getting stacks which isn't very easy since ABl cast time is super long)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co8pwFiLOyI

He got stacks from spellstealing using the 2P PvP bonus. He then Polymorphs the guy, puts down a crystal, pops everything, then does ABl at 4 stacks + SN > SN > ABarr. Now, if this combo fails, you're essentially worthless for ~90s, if not more. Also keep in mind that any normal PvP setting will have people popping trinkets out of Poly, allies on both sides, dispels flying left and right; I mean, this isn't going to be a normal thing you see every day. Let's just take a look at the stars that have to align here:

- Person to kill (let's call them "Target") has to not pop any class ability, trinket, or anything out of the Poly
- Target cannot pop anything to lessen the damage or heal themselves (both in Poly and out of Poly)
- Target's allies cannot dispel the poly off
- Target's allies also cannot protect Target in any way (including healing)
- Target's allies cannot be attacking the Mage (preferably with a bursting melee)
- Mage needs to get 4 charges, which, without AO, isn't going to be easy in PvP (keeping in mind that Spellsteal eats your mana, even as Arcane, and will lower your Mastery benefit)
- Mage needs everything ready: PC, AP, 4 charges, and both charges of SN

I mean, just look at the ridiculous list here. It's not going to be pulled off often (if not ever) in decent+ skill PvP. Is it possible? I mean, yeah, it's definitely POSSIBLE, but is it viable/likely? No, it's really not.