Newest patch notes and casting-on-the-move

[Nerraw]

I don't think I'd be satisfied with just having Fel-flame back, that would be like taking a mile from us then giving us an inch

I'd rather have them remove KJC entirely, give us Fel Flame back, and then balance us around having that.

[Shamran]

The problem with all that though, is that that is exactly the role Fel Flame had in our rotation. it was a way to continue our dps rotations but at lower output potential. There's no real reason to do something extremely complicated when they could simply return Fel Flame to our spellbooks, or replace KjC with a Fel Flame talent.

Preaching to the choir! And, as I argued in the OP, a reinstatement of FF seems, by some lengths, the most straightforward solution. The only reasons I can think of for not doing that - aside from the fact that they don't want to, of course - is the PVP ramifications of Fel Flame; in that Warlocks then have an un-interruptable, ressource-generating ability with no cooldown. But hey, every other caster has that. :-)

[Grizelda]

It's limiter was the high mana cost.

[blackblade]

The problem with all that though, is that that is exactly the role Fel Flame had in our rotation. it was a way to continue our dps rotations but at lower output potential. There's no real reason to do something extremely complicated when they could simply return Fel Flame to our spellbooks, or replace KjC with a Fel Flame talent.

I kind of like the latter. KJC has a lot of "This is how it should work" stigma against it. Making it stronger/weaker is just an invitation.

Saying choose between: Second charge of Dark Soul (better for exploiting burst windows), Bigger AoE, or a minor instant-cast damage spell (with a high mana cost) that extends your core damage over time is competitve, IMO.

[muto]

I'd rather have them remove KJC entirely, give us Fel Flame back, and then balance us around having that.

Nah. rather be able to cast a filler on the move at reduced movement speed or reduced damage.

[Jessicka]

Nah. rather be able to cast a filler on the move at reduced movement speed or reduced damage.

They won't put the snare back as it was wiping mid-table/casual guilds.

[Dnusha]

laughable patch notes

[Deleted]

You wanted to cast on the move, you should have rolled a hunter. With the loss of dps on the move as a caster, pvp should be more balanced, also hunters will be used for more utility in raids and in all reality the skill cap of the game is higher, knowing when to move or when not to move as a caster now.

[Jessicka]

You wanted to cast on the move, you should have rolled a hunter. With the loss of dps on the move as a caster, pvp should be more balanced, also hunters will be used for more utility in raids and in all reality the skill cap of the game is higher, knowing when to move or when not to move as a caster now.

I don't know why at this point it still needs pointing out that only Warlocks and Shaman have 'reduced mobility', and that every other ranged spec was either buffed or untouched.

Shaman were however compensated with Mastery changes.

[Grizelda]

I don't know why at this point it still needs pointing out that only Warlocks and Shaman have 'reduced mobility', and that every other ranged spec was either buffed or untouched.

And most melee specs increased their repertoire of ranged abilities, gap closers and hamstrings. If you can't get your hands on a ranged it's your bad.

[Azutael]

In all honesty, if they removed kil'jaedens cunning and replaced it with fel flame. I would pick it.

Because it really sucks to not have a reliable direct damage spell to cast on the move, no comedown or anything attacked. Doesn't need to do all that much dmg.

[401Toffees]

Having played a Warlock since TBC, for the first time I feel 'broken'. Sure, I've come to love the fact that I can cast while I move and perhaps this is where the problem lays, but right now I feel totally gimped in all 3 specs due to the removal of snap-shotting (a great skill in Affliction which required mastering to make the best out of it), and KJC (as was). I've been trying to play Demo and it may be because things are just dieing far too fast for me to get into a real rotation, but even this feels lack-luster. The 'dumbing down' of what is supposed to be a 100% dps class has been taken to far IMO. Bring back some of the skill to the class and it may stop me from going to sleep whilst raiding.

[Count Zero]

Preaching to the choir! And, as I argued in the OP, a reinstatement of FF seems, by some lengths, the most straightforward solution. The only reasons I can think of for not doing that - aside from the fact that they don't want to, of course - is the PVP ramifications of Fel Flame; in that Warlocks then have an un-interruptable, ressource-generating ability with no cooldown. But hey, every other caster has that. :-)

How about give us a weak Fel Flame baseline ... short cast time, relatively high mana cost, relatively low damage.

Rework KJC into a talent that buffs it ... makes it castable while moving (so it's still interruptable in pvp), somewhat lower the mana cost, somewhat boost the damage, also have the talent give it spec-appropriate resource-generation (or dot damage in aff's case) - all balanced so that it's comparable to but still slightly less efficient than normal filler. Result in very little damage lost during movement (although still a loss), but also losing out on the other talents. Clear theoretical dps loss in most situations, and it should only be extremely rare situations where movement is so often but so irregular that it's the clear best choice.

[Shamran]

How about give us a weak Fel Flame baseline ... short cast time, relatively high mana cost, relatively low damage.

Rework KJC into a talent that buffs it ... makes it castable while moving (so it's still interruptable in pvp), somewhat lower the mana cost, somewhat boost the damage, also have the talent give it spec-appropriate resource-generation (or dot damage in aff's case) - all balanced so that it's comparable to but still slightly less efficient than normal filler. Result in very little damage lost during movement (although still a loss), but also losing out on the other talents. Clear theoretical dps loss in most situations, and it should only be extremely rare situations where movement is so often but so irregular that it's the clear best choice.

Indeed. Also one of the suggestions I made in the OP. I do like the reward system approach, even if it does come across somewhat complicated to implement. And I get that FF, indirectly, provides the same mechanic in that your damage output is decidedly reduced when you have to resort to using that spell instead of your 'normal rotation' spells.

[Kashii]

How about give us a weak Fel Flame baseline ... short cast time, relatively high mana cost, relatively low damage.

Rework KJC into a talent that buffs it ... makes it castable while moving (so it's still interruptable in pvp), somewhat lower the mana cost, somewhat boost the damage, also have the talent give it spec-appropriate resource-generation (or dot damage in aff's case) - all balanced so that it's comparable to but still slightly less efficient than normal filler. Result in very little damage lost during movement (although still a loss), but also losing out on the other talents. Clear theoretical dps loss in most situations, and it should only be extremely rare situations where movement is so often but so irregular that it's the clear best choice.

No more spells with cast times! Just make instant cast FF a talent, balance the damage output and be done with it. In the end, I bet few people would take it in PvE after they learn fight mechanics (once you know a fight's mechanics you can time movement with casts) but it would be useful in PvP.

As someone mentioned earlier, the fact that melee has so many gap closers and ranged abilities (not to mention stuns and slows) is horrendously unbalanced at the moment (PvP-wise). I'd like to be able actually do something while they are stunning/silencing/slowing me to death.

[Deleted]

Don't undervalue KJC for progression. You might not have to move instantly for mechanics 2 months down the line, but early on you certainly do.

You similarly can't always guarantee your 10s Demonbolt burn will go unaffected. I think KJC will play a huge part in progress to guarantee consistent damage pull by pull, especially in conjunction with the new glyph of DS for a Demonbolt specced Demonology warlock.

[ombramo]

We need fel flame. Currently there is no way to remove a warriors spell reflect other than eating a conflagrate or just sitting there and waiting for the spell to run out, which is such a bad design choice. If casters are going to have their mobility taken away, warriors and rogues need to have their 25 stuns and gap closers toned the fuck down

[Deleted]

You wanted to cast on the move, you should have rolled a hunter.

Please stop spouting such tripe.
No one's asking for their full rotation on the move, and we've had something to cast on the move for enough years that it seems reasonable to pick a warlock while expecting some base ability to use while moving - mages sure as hell have it, and they're not hunters.

KJC should be gone, and Fel Flame should be back as baseline.
Balancing a classes mobility around one, "optional" talent is terrible, especially when the talent doesn't even alleviate the worst problem, which is feeling useless while moving, that's far more important to get rid of than doing good dps is.

Fel Flame was added for a reason in Cata, it doesn't need to be a talent and it certainly doesn't need to be cut.
KJC, which has been a problem child throughout all of MOP, should be.

[dissidence]

Unless they nerf AD then it will pretty much be baseline, pretty muchno point in KJC what so ever anymore, maybe some niche stuff, gone from my toolbars probably forever in its current incarnation. Feels like brain freeze while moving and playing a lock at the moment, grasping for some useful buttons to press which don't exist or are on cooldown / pointless to use.

[Jessicka]

Unless they nerf AD then it will pretty much be baseline, pretty muchno point in KJC what so ever anymore, maybe some niche stuff, gone from my toolbars probably forever in its current incarnation. Feels like brain freeze while moving and playing a lock at the moment, grasping for some useful buttons to press which don't exist or are on cooldown / pointless to use.

AD is massively, massively overhyped. It permits 1 (one) singular additional use of the Dark Soul cooldown over the course of a fight. After a couple of months on farm when fights are shortened significantly by gear improvements, then yeah, it's pretty decent, but at that point it no longer matters. During progress however, when your raid group is undergeared and fights are much longer, then its impact is much less - especially on end wing, and especially tier end bosses when fights can be 10 minutes long or more; at that point it's borderline worthless itself.