WoD Fire Mage Guide for 6.2

[Deleted]

So PC is better on ST too then?`Huh. Well Im one piece away from 4pc so once I hit that I go back to Kindling on ST then I suppose.

on pure single target you want prismatic crystal so you can spread the ignite. Dispite of your item level. On cleave you go kindling.

[Dangers]

I am a new Mage as of a week ago trying to figure out some of the finer details.

I went back through as many pages as I could handle and didn't see a specific answer to these so forgive me if it's there:

(1)
When I am doing my standard rotation I end up with awkward fireballs.

Example: (excluding talents and assuming optimal procs for simplicity)

Hard Cast Pyroblast
Cast Fireball 1
Cast Fireball 2 then Heating Up procs from Fireball 1
Cast Inferno Blast as Fireball 2 finishes to convert Heating Up to Pyroblast!
Fireball 2 procs Heating Up so I have Heating Up and Pyroblast! available
Cast Fireball 3 followed by the instant Pyroblast
Start casting Fireball 4 then Pyroblast! procs again shortly after ruining the perceived Pyroblast 'chain'. This is the problem stage and can repeat with additional procs.

Should I be waiting between Pyroblasts to see if they proc again? It seems to punish the idea of trying to make sure you are hitting your next ability to make up for latency. Each delay I would assume is wasting that little bit of Ignite time. Don't want to risk starting a Pyroblast cast.

Follow up question: Is there some kind of rule (for or against) to using Inferno Blast with Pyroblast! up but with no Heating Up to get the Heating Up proc before consuming the Pyroblast! to attempt to force a second Pyroblast! if the first Pyroblast crits? Especially in an opener or is the Inferno Blast going to negate the Ignite gained from the Pyroblasts due to the extra GCD/lower damage that Inferno Blast does?

(2)
I intend to be starting Mythic on Mage once geared up, Arcane single target and Fire for AoE.
Since DPS isn't relevant until I am closer to 690, what level 100 Talent should I get used to for the playstyle? Meteor or Kindling?
Most information tries to take into account gearing up and doing maximum dps while doing so, something I am not interested in. I've seen that Kindling is generally considered better at higher ilvl and Meteor for single target and lower ilvl but would like to confirm. I'd prefer to master the associated playstyle as I don't care about the DPS too much. A few posts above they touch on their uses for single target, but I don't intend to use Fire for single target at all.

Hopefully those made sense, I tried to be as specific as possible to avoid having other people repeat themselves for the more general scenarios. Once I figure out the little things I find I am able to understand the larger aspects a lot better. Apologies if these things are common knowledge or readily available and I missed them somewhere.

[Wilderness]

Only go Kindling if you have 2P and 4P. Otherwise PC would probably start being able to better serve you for everything, especially with 2P.

If you don't have the 2-set, I don't think PC would be the best option. Meteor simmed best for single-target during Highmaul didn't it?

Of course if you don't have the 2-set, do your best to get it ASAP, but prior to that I don't think PC is better than meteor.

[LocNess]

I am a new Mage as of a week ago trying to figure out some of the finer details.

I went back through as many pages as I could handle and didn't see a specific answer to these so forgive me if it's there:

(1)
When I am doing my standard rotation I end up with awkward fireballs.

Example: (excluding talents and assuming optimal procs for simplicity)

Hard Cast Pyroblast
Cast Fireball 1
Cast Fireball 2 then Heating Up procs from Fireball 1
Cast Inferno Blast as Fireball 2 finishes to convert Heating Up to Pyroblast!
Fireball 2 procs Heating Up so I have Heating Up and Pyroblast! available
Cast Fireball 3 followed by the instant Pyroblast
Start casting Fireball 4 then Pyroblast! procs again shortly after ruining the perceived Pyroblast 'chain'. This is the problem stage and can repeat with additional procs.

Should I be waiting between Pyroblasts to see if they proc again? It seems to punish the idea of trying to make sure you are hitting your next ability to make up for latency. Each delay I would assume is wasting that little bit of Ignite time. Don't want to risk starting a Pyroblast cast.

Follow up question: Is there some kind of rule (for or against) to using Inferno Blast with Pyroblast! up but with no Heating Up to get the Heating Up proc before consuming the Pyroblast! to attempt to force a second Pyroblast! if the first Pyroblast crits? Especially in an opener or is the Inferno Blast going to negate the Ignite gained from the Pyroblasts due to the extra GCD/lower damage that Inferno Blast does?

(2)
I intend to be starting Mythic on Mage once geared up, Arcane single target and Fire for AoE.
Since DPS isn't relevant until I am closer to 690, what level 100 Talent should I get used to for the playstyle? Meteor or Kindling?
Most information tries to take into account gearing up and doing maximum dps while doing so, something I am not interested in. I've seen that Kindling is generally considered better at higher ilvl and Meteor for single target and lower ilvl but would like to confirm. I'd prefer to master the associated playstyle as I don't care about the DPS too much. A few posts above they touch on their uses for single target, but I don't intend to use Fire for single target at all.

Hopefully those made sense, I tried to be as specific as possible to avoid having other people repeat themselves for the more general scenarios. Once I figure out the little things I find I am able to understand the larger aspects a lot better. Apologies if these things are common knowledge or readily available and I missed them somewhere.

1. You shouldn't have any downtime when casting Pyroblasts, the maximum time for the spell to travel and not register is I believe 0.75sec, which is under a capped GCD. Sorry if I am misreading your question, but I don't think there is any issues going straight into a chain?

2. Kindling. I haven't used Meteor in months as Fire, because even if I feel lazy I just go Kindling. Just make sure you are using Inferno Blast and making good use of it, especially with our 2P, to make Kindling worthwhile. Otherwise for any ST or 2 target fights, go PC.

If you don't have the 2-set, I don't think PC would be the best option. Meteor simmed best for single-target during Highmaul didn't it?

Of course if you don't have the 2-set, do your best to get it ASAP, but prior to that I don't think PC is better than meteor.

Meteor outsims PC on ST by 90dps in 630 gear. By the end of Highmaul, all top parsing Fire Mages were using PC and spreading Combustion off.

[Dangers]

1. You shouldn't have any downtime when casting Pyroblasts, the maximum time for the spell to travel and not register is I believe 0.75sec, which is under a capped GCD. Sorry if I am misreading your question, but I don't think there is any issues going straight into a chain?

2. Kindling. I haven't used Meteor in months as Fire, because even if I feel lazy I just go Kindling. Just make sure you are using Inferno Blast and making good use of it, especially with our 2P, to make Kindling worthwhile. Otherwise for any ST or 2 target fights, go PC.

More what I mean is, I am always looking to be spamming the next button I can 100% assume is going to be castable, so if I am spamming Pyroblast expecting a free pyroblast, then it'll start hardcasting a pyroblast if there's no Pyroblast! proc. (player error as I learn the spec)

I would tend to hit fireball because I know I can cast it for sure no matter what. That's the delay I am talking about, not necessarily a mechanics delay just me reading the situation since I am still learning the spec.
I should be trying to game the GCD instead of the latency I guess. Maybe it's just my crit levels, I don't get reliable Pyroblast! procs at the moment so it feels like I am screwing up more than doing a rotation perhaps. It's generally more of an issue if I am hoping for that rare third Pyroblast in the chain when everything lines up just right.
Should I be using my extra Inferno Blast from the 2pc to try and force a 3rd Pyroblast! or is it always better dps to just do the 2 pyros, double Inferno Blast, combust offtarget, spread to main target? (Again assuming no extra procs for simplicity.) I assume trying to force the 3rd Pyroblast! can end up hurting the ignite if it doesn't crit.

I am just trying to work out these last pieces of the puzzle, most guides including the best ones like yours, altered-time, method, etc... seem to just give the somewhat detailed basic information to make the reader decent at starting the spec, I like to try to work out as much as I can on top of those guides as to why everything is, not just replicate them. Almost got a good grasp on all the deep mechanics of the spec, just need these last few confirmations. Thanks for your time.

[Polarthief]

So losing 2 IBs made me realize something: Inferno Blast shouldn't be both our "Omg I need a crit now" spell mixed with our DoT Spreader. The QoL of having 2 IBs is so immense compared to not having it that they really should split the two. While we'll never have double-Ignites again, we can at least have a consistent DoT Spreader, which imo is one of the more frustrating aspects of Fire without a second IB. It was a huge issue with Impact not proccing when you used Combustion back in the day, and it's still a bit of an issue now.

[LocNess]

More what I mean is, I am always looking to be spamming the next button I can 100% assume is going to be castable, so if I am spamming Pyroblast expecting a free pyroblast, then it'll start hardcasting a pyroblast if there's no Pyroblast! proc. (player error as I learn the spec)

I would tend to hit fireball because I know I can cast it for sure no matter what. That's the delay I am talking about, not necessarily a mechanics delay just me reading the situation since I am still learning the spec.
I should be trying to game the GCD instead of the latency I guess. Maybe it's just my crit levels, I don't get reliable Pyroblast! procs at the moment so it feels like I am screwing up more than doing a rotation perhaps. It's generally more of an issue if I am hoping for that rare third Pyroblast in the chain when everything lines up just right.
Should I be using my extra Inferno Blast from the 2pc to try and force a 3rd Pyroblast! or is it always better dps to just do the 2 pyros, double Inferno Blast, combust offtarget, spread to main target? (Again assuming no extra procs for simplicity.) I assume trying to force the 3rd Pyroblast! can end up hurting the ignite if it doesn't crit.

I am just trying to work out these last pieces of the puzzle, most guides including the best ones like yours, altered-time, method, etc... seem to just give the somewhat detailed basic information to make the reader decent at starting the spec, I like to try to work out as much as I can on top of those guides as to why everything is, not just replicate them. Almost got a good grasp on all the deep mechanics of the spec, just need these last few confirmations. Thanks for your time.

Apologies for the late response, I checked it at work when you posted and then forgot to come back when I came home. It really just comes down to that is how the spec works. There will be plenty of times where I will start a Pyro cast due to no crits for .2sec before canceling it. It just happens, can't really prevent it. Hope RNG goes your way, and most of the time it should with a crit trinket up.

So losing 2 IBs made me realize something: Inferno Blast shouldn't be both our "Omg I need a crit now" spell mixed with our DoT Spreader. The QoL of having 2 IBs is so immense compared to not having it that they really should split the two. While we'll never have double-Ignites again, we can at least have a consistent DoT Spreader, which imo is one of the more frustrating aspects of Fire without a second IB. It was a huge issue with Impact not proccing when you used Combustion back in the day, and it's still a bit of an issue now.

My original draft for a redesign did have a separate way for DoT spreading, and I agree it is annoying. Maybe next expansion will give us enhanced mastery, and we could add "each % of your mastery gives your spells DoTs that % to spread to other targets within 8 yards per tick", or something dumb like that. Regardless it has been this way for a long time now, so we should be used to it. Maybe come 6.2 I will add a section of my guide to make it more clear when to spread and when to keep to ST.

[tachycardias]

Though IB acting as both an ensured crit for heating up and our dot spreader is frustrating, from a game design standpoint it's sound. It creates tension and choice which is what makes playing a game general more interesting. When you take away tension between choices it becomes more mechanical and thus less interesting.

[Wilderness]

Though IB acting as both an ensured crit for heating up and our dot spreader is frustrating, from a game design standpoint it's sound. It creates tension and choice which is what makes playing a game general more interesting. When you take away tension between choices it becomes more mechanical and thus less interesting.

I can understand that to a certain degree. Prior to 2T17 we all knew it was sort of awkward to spread ignite or use your IB to force a Pyro but it was manageable and we didn't know any better. But now that we have had 2 IBs? Holy crap is it going to be hard and frustrating going back. I played Fire in a CM yesterday just to help some friends working on a carry strat and man did it suck. I didn't even think about set bonuses being disabled until that 1st pull and it suuuuuuuuuuucked. I knew losing 2T17 was going to be painful but ugh, it was really annoying.

[Kromus]

Hi all,

Recently joined a new guild and came to the agreement of playing a mage (they needed a core mage for raiding, I'm historically a warlock)

They have been cool kinda bringing me on runs not expecting much, just to get gear. I know all the BRF fights(we raid heroic) so no major issues there. The guild plans to move into mythic shortly.

I've been reading a lot about how things change with the 2p, with the additional stack of IB. I'm a decent player and think I have the priorities down, and I've got a handle on combustion(I use a TMW to show me ignite values, and normally value anything above 5k as "Cast combustion) I'm just not sure on how to use the 2IB. I have seen it mentioned here, but havnt read any explanation of it.

At present what I'm doing is trying to not leave two stacks idle (similar to my warlock with hands of gul). So in instances where I have a pyroblast but not heating up proc aligned, I'll hit IB and then let of my fireball+pyroblast.

Is that basically it, or is there more to it?

My DPs has gone up nicely from the first raid, I'm sitting at 670 ilvl now (still 2pc) and getting about 30-35k on fights, substantially more on the cleave ones which is nice. It's been a breathe of fresh air playing a new class in raids, after so long on the warlock. Although rough going through a trial and trying to impress on something so fresh.

[Wilderness]

The 2 stacks of IB is a huge quality of life improvement, since you can force a lot more Pyro's when you crit and you don't have to worry as much if you need to use a charge to spread dots. It changes how we used to play b/c before you'd want to camp your Pyro's until you got a HU proc and then fire it off, but now since you can usually use IB when you get a HU proc, you fire off your Pyro's as they come for the most part.

But the big benefit of the 2-set is how you can build a higher ignite by using bout IB's in a row to spread ignite twice to the same target within a small enough timeframe that it the ignites combine and create a bigger ignite on that target. You can do this single-target with PC (build ignite on PC, double IB to spread to boss, then switch to boss and use combustion) or if you have 2 bosses/mobs up then you build ignite on one target and then double IB and combust on the other one. You should do this anytime you use Combustion, but its real strength is when you are able to do it with a haste proc or buff – particularly heroism. The close to the GCD you can get with your double IB, then the ignite won’t have time to tick on the other target so when the 2nd ignite is spread you get a much bigger ignite on that other target.

Komma goes through the process pretty well here.
Dutch has a nice guide on how to maximize both 2 and 4 set bonuses here

[Kromus]

Ah ok thanks, I was still trying to line up a HU along with an existing Pyro

[Deleted]

EDIT; Im retarded.

[LocNess]

Komma has a good post worth reading on AT for people who are interested in going full time Fire, or have been told it is superior by whomever:

http://altered-time.com/forum/viewto...p=14977#p14977

TL;DR - Arcane is more consistent for ST, and still above on average. Unless you get extremely strong RNG, Fire will always be lower on average, no matter our current gear levels.

[Deleted]

And Frost is still relegated to PvP? :<

[dwbrown7680]

Quick question regarding the 800-900 haste with 4p, etc. This 800-900 is including 5% haste from raid buffs? Or do I need 800-900 self-buffed? I assume it's the former and not the latter but I just want to be sure. Thanks to anyone who replies.

[Deleted]

Quick question regarding the 800-900 haste with 4p, etc. This 800-900 is including 5% haste from raid buffs? Or do I need 800-900 self-buffed? I assume it's the former and not the latter but I just want to be sure. Thanks to anyone who replies.

It's character sheet rating, so before raid buffs.

[dwbrown7680]

It's character sheet rating, so before raid buffs.

Yeah I figured that out shortly after I posted, thanks for the reply though!

[LocNess]

Guide will be updated within 7 days after the release of 6.2.

[Nohara]

Fire just feels aweful without the double Inferno Blast. It made the spec feel a little more viable, moveability wise and crit wise.

Has there been any reason for this 'nerf' mentioned? Since there arent many 3+ fights, Fire now seems to be totally dead.