WoD Fire Mage Guide for 6.2

[Deleted]

Double PvP CC Crit trinkets? The ones that give 875 crit. A static 1750 crit throughout the whole fight. How would those be?

http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2197

[Nihiel]

Hey guys! I hope this chicken hasn't been beaten to death too much lately, but here goes..

I'm really baffled at how few people are playing fire at the moment. I don't understand how the WoW community's perception of the spec can be the like of "if you're not arcane or frost, you're doing it wrong" when it arguably is not the case.

Now, I'm currently playing a shadow priest (9/13m) and we've got a single viable play style which is shoe-horned into single target only, with dots never being worth casting. For example, on Tyrant I don't bother with cleaving (lol) and I just stick to ST'ing the given priority target. Many people seem to go frost on +1 target fights like this, but fire is arguably even better?

I guess it all comes from arcane and frost being superior in the world first race - which is almost half a year ago. Anyone progressing through mythic HFC at the moment is vastly overgearing the content (myself included) yet this perception of fire's inviability persists. I'm no tech wizard myself, and I go by general logic without simming and such. However, looking at simcraft's various ilvl sims on ST, fire scales up well and ahead of frost at 735, and will of course be better the more targets present in a given fight.

My point being, fire is still an absolutely fine choice despite what the community consensus is, right? I genuinely don't see the logic behind how fire is treated as a "for fun" spec, I really don't. Guaranteed crits with tons and tons of mastery lead to very consistent Combustions which are arguably always stacked with ring = very good and reliable burst, which can be easily spread to a secondary target on most fights.. Now, I see how arcane beats it on ST, but I guess my crusade is against frost. I'm unhappy with the anti-fire perception the WoW community at large has evolved in this patch.

TL;DR

Why is fire perceived as inviable?
And is this perception not very wrong to say the least?

What are your thoughts on the matter?

Thanks in advance for replying, and happy holidays

[Tyze]

Fire is totally viable. Saw someone on altered time that does mythic as Fire on pretty much every fight, and people doing it on hc, but on progression and there is really in need of more damage he does swap.

Fire is good, its better than alot of other specs in the game. But Arcane is just better, and people generally want the better thing.

[Deleted]

I see a lot of people playing with DSI over Piston. I've got a 6/6 Pouch and was wondering what my second trinket should be: Heroic DSI or Heroic Piston w/ socket?

[Deleted]

I think it's consensus now to go DSI, especially over piston. It probably has something to do with how it procs. Being RPPM-based it almost always procs on pull.

[Wilderness]

Why is fire perceived as inviable?
And is this perception not very wrong to say the least?

What are your thoughts on the matter?

Thanks in advance for replying, and happy holidays

Fire has been and continues to be viable. The problem with it is that on most fights for progression its damage isn't that helpful. Its best for cleaving and AoE, but not for killing priority adds or target switching. Arcane is better on single-target and switching to short-lived adds like on Gorefiend, infernals/doomfires on Arch, etc. Frost has great cleave, as good or better single-target, and is better at priority damage.

You need to be in melee range often to keep using Dragon's Breath, which creates problems with mechanics and spacing on some fights, and Fire suffers a lot if the ring isn't being used on CD so that you can line it up with Sandman's Pouch every 2 minutes. You're not as mobile because you can't take the double blink glyph. Fire can be just as good as Frost, but on progression its rarely overall damage that matters and Frost will do more meaningful damage in most cases.

[Deleted]

I'm convinced on something like Xhul or Iskar it might be the most optimal to be fire, especially if the interrupts on Xhul are handled by others, but I personally cba'ed much to have a 3rd spec. Hrm, it's likely possible. But it might need to avoid re-enchanting to not be obnoxious.

[Frost1129]

I'm curious to know the logic SimC uses regarding 6/6 sandman's and the ring procs. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure we're playing the trinket differently in game than the sim is.

IIRC it's delay-sycning combustion/PC to the ring - which should sort of auto-sync it to sandmans as well.

[Wilderness]

I'm convinced on something like Xhul or Iskar it might be the most optimal to be fire, especially if the interrupts on Xhul are handled by others, but I personally cba'ed much to have a 3rd spec. Hrm, it's likely possible. But it might need to avoid re-enchanting to not be obnoxious.

For progression you could make a case for Fire on Xhul. Good cleave damage throughout the earlier phases, though it wouldn't do as well on the void fiends or the burn at the end. But a lot of into and out of melee for dragon's breath, which is more annoying if you are also doing chains.

Even before valor upgrades I think most groups were doing the Iskar strat of bursting the add down before chains gets and now its even easier, so Fire would be worse than either other spec for that purpose.

[Deleted]

I went on a few tests with that latest build everyone is talking about (sandman's+DSI+high crit) and frankly I'm not impressed. The only thing it does very well is a pull and the next 1 minute. Everything after that is a mess of unpredictability. The BMI may not proc, the boss may not be patchwerk-like to align a second sandman's etc.

Hell, it can't even do 5mans well since nothing aligns in there.

[Deleted]

Piston for Single Target and DSI for any kind of cleave, since your mastery starts to gain a lot more weight each time you add a target, and passes crit at 3.

[Seatoo]

Piston for Single Target and DSI for any kind of cleave, since your mastery starts to gain a lot more weight each time you add a target, and passes crit at 3.

There is no reason to EVER use Piston over DSI. EVER

[ryan11d7]

So is there a BIS list for HFC? I'm curious as to the trinket that should be used. As well as the correct talents for optimal fire play. And any other hints/pointers.

- - - Updated - - -

So is there a BIS list for HFC? I'm curious as to the trinket that should be used. As well as the correct talents for optimal fire play. And any other hints/pointers.

[Pony Soldier]

Is there still a point where we should stop stacking crit? I'm currently at around 40%. Should I start stacking haste now or should I just keep stacking crit and leave haste to enchants and such?

[WarcraftMages]

Is there still a point where we should stop stacking crit? I'm currently at around 40%. Should I start stacking haste now or should I just keep stacking crit and leave haste to enchants and such?

I get a sense in general lately that since we can't simulate perfectly what we are actually doing in real encounters it starts getting value to first solve any major mechanical problems and then go for something raw that uppers numbers. In the case of this spec which I don't play but I understand, I suspect the best one can do is to get crit capped during their trinkets even on a boss target (not only crystal) and then go mastery.

Alternatively, if one values their short term burst of pyroblasts for utility reasons like spreading dots, they can keep going crit until the moon even if it would lower their theoretical dps.

[ryan11d7]

What addon do you guys use to track combustion, is combustionhelper still the go to addon to help with that?

- - - Updated - - -

What is the second trinket we use, BoA or DSI

[Deleted]

Fire has been and continues to be viable. The problem with it is that on most fights for progression its damage isn't that helpful. Its best for cleaving and AoE, but not for killing priority adds or target switching. Arcane is better on single-target and switching to short-lived adds like on Gorefiend, infernals/doomfires on Arch, etc. Frost has great cleave, as good or better single-target, and is better at priority damage.

You need to be in melee range often to keep using Dragon's Breath, which creates problems with mechanics and spacing on some fights, and Fire suffers a lot if the ring isn't being used on CD so that you can line it up with Sandman's Pouch every 2 minutes. You're not as mobile because you can't take the double blink glyph. Fire can be just as good as Frost, but on progression its rarely overall damage that matters and Frost will do more meaningful damage in most cases.

Sure if one fight out of 13 makes a spec viable, i can agree. The only time i saw profit out of fire was on Iskar. And when you think that 2 procs of pof during adds make arcane better, you no longer have much of a valid point.

Thing is, fire is good when you have more than 2 targets stacked that are going to be alive for more than 5 seconds, which is only on iskar and xhul mythic.

Fire is in sad state, better wait for legion if you want to play it. The feeling that you do 50% of the dps arcane and frost do on 90% of the fights kills all your desire to play fire, trust me.

[Ironsquidlol]

Sure if one fight out of 13 makes a spec viable, i can agree. The only time i saw profit out of fire was on Iskar. And when you think that 2 procs of pof during adds make arcane better, you no longer have much of a valid point.

Thing is, fire is good when you have more than 2 targets stacked that are going to be alive for more than 5 seconds, which is only on iskar and xhul mythic.

Fire is in sad state, better wait for legion if you want to play it. The feeling that you do 50% of the dps arcane and frost do on 90% of the fights kills all your desire to play fire, trust me.

I disagree, fire is pretty good for mythic manno and archi as well as other fights. You can't rightfully judge a spec without optimally gearing for it, I consistantly beat arcane mages as fire on Archimonde and it's arguably easier to gear for fire than arcane.

[Wilderness]

Sure if one fight out of 13 makes a spec viable, i can agree. The only time i saw profit out of fire was on Iskar. And when you think that 2 procs of pof during adds make arcane better, you no longer have much of a valid point.

Thing is, fire is good when you have more than 2 targets stacked that are going to be alive for more than 5 seconds, which is only on iskar and xhul mythic.

Fire is in sad state, better wait for legion if you want to play it. The feeling that you do 50% of the dps arcane and frost do on 90% of the fights kills all your desire to play fire, trust me.

Its a viable spec because you can play it on all 13 fights and do just fine compared to most classes/specs. Its just not the best mage spec on most fights - that doesn't mean its not viable, just not optimal. Two very different things.

[ryan11d7]

So I am pretty sure I know the answer but, is rune of power never actually viable?