Another H Garrosh 10m Intermission #1 Advice Thread

[Senkei]

Alright. Here are the logs from our raid on Friday evening:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Xmv7VtPR2KkjT9nM

I just want to preface by saying that the first half of the night wipe wise was due to Shamans running out and aggroing healers before pathing through the star. Once we shifted the stack point 10 yards to the right, the shamans pathed through the star every time without fail. Our best attempt was certainly our last pull of the night. We ended I1 with 23 energy and 9/10 with orb. The devotion aura we were going to use for first whirl had 4 seconds left on CD from the first Iron Star explosion in P1. I'm guessing the only way to solve that is to use devotion early and have the tail end of the buff active for the explosion.

I'm also going to edit the main post with the link to the logs. Are there any screaming errors that you guys can see that I can't? Thanks again for your help and insight.

[MetroStratics]

Just to clarify, you are only doing 10 man because you are going for server first, correct?
If you are still not prepared for 20 man, which is days to weeks away, then you need advice beyond Garrosh.

I've never done 10 man, so I can't help you organize your groups, but what I have found most people do is just ignore the back three. Have the group split 5-5 on the first two, both crush the middle, then split 5-5 again on the back. If you do it as quickly as you should, you still have plenty of time.

Looks like you mentioned Binding shot as well, which I had only just realized is usable on those adds. Its an incredible boon to have that type of ability work, so make sure you are using it if needed.

[Senkei]

Just to clarify, you are only doing 10 man because you are going for server first, correct?
If you are still not prepared for 20 man, which is days to weeks away, then you need advice beyond Garrosh.

I've never done 10 man, so I can't help you organize your groups, but what I have found most people do is just ignore the back three. Have the group split 5-5 on the first two, both crush the middle, then split 5-5 again on the back. If you do it as quickly as you should, you still have plenty of time.

Looks like you mentioned Binding shot as well, which I had only just realized is usable on those adds. Its an incredible boon to have that type of ability work, so make sure you are using it if needed.

Being prepared for 20 man doesn't mean that you have to run 25m raids. That's not entirely what this topic is about.

[Ater]

We have tanks (me prot pally and our prot warrior) solo one pack each. We take the left and right pack in the first room, that way all the multidotters will put dots on our mobs while running to the garrosh room. Also one of the dps that is assign to the middle pack (a hunter) help out if need after the middle pack is down. We also have a healer in each room trying to dps where needed.

Having tanks solo packs should help you a lot if you have problem with killing the mobs in time.

[Deja Thoris]

Alright. Here are the logs from our raid on Friday evening:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Xmv7VtPR2KkjT9nM

I just want to preface by saying that the first half of the night wipe wise was due to Shamans running out and aggroing healers before pathing through the star. Once we shifted the stack point 10 yards to the right, the shamans pathed through the star every time without fail. Our best attempt was certainly our last pull of the night. We ended I1 with 23 energy and 9/10 with orb. The devotion aura we were going to use for first whirl had 4 seconds left on CD from the first Iron Star explosion in P1. I'm guessing the only way to solve that is to use devotion early and have the tail end of the buff active for the explosion.

I'm also going to edit the main post with the link to the logs. Are there any screaming errors that you guys can see that I can't? Thanks again for your help and insight.

I'm going to pick on your prot pala :s

This is just from the last attempt:
Your attack power http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...1001&source=36
Paladins attack power http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...1001&source=34

Basically you are completely whoring all the vengeance and hes sitting there looking pretty. Either drop him for another dps or share properly for the good of the team. I suspect you the BrM are pulling the boss, getting a huge spike of vengeance and then expecting the pala to get the adds (no chance thats going to happen). Whoever you want to take the adds (hint: BrM with this comp) should pull the boss then when the adds spawn the other tank should take the boss. Voila, now you both have vengeance and do meaningful damage.

Having said that, the prot pala does appear pretty bad. I'm being a harsh critic because its the last boss of an expac and from that last attempt lets see what was sub par:
1) 2 mill damage on adds. Fine, he had no vengeance but he never used avengers shield or sotr on them. AS hits hard and hits all 3. sotr is off the gcd so its a freebie.
2) His rotation is wrong. Hes somehow using J more than CS. It's costing him holy power.
3) His sotr uptime is garbage. He hit it 13 times in 4 min for 20% uptime. It should be 60%+
4) His EF uptime is garbage.

Points 3 and 4 are worrying. This is the last HEROIC boss of an expac, his active mitigation should be amazing and its garbage. I don't know if thats because the BrM is whoring all the vengeance he feels wasted but wow. Hes failing at prot 101.

[Senkei]

I'm going to pick on your prot pala :s

This is just from the last attempt:
Your attack power http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...1001&source=36
Paladins attack power http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...1001&source=34

Basically you are completely whoring all the vengeance and hes sitting there looking pretty. Either drop him for another dps or share properly for the good of the team. I suspect you the BrM are pulling the boss, getting a huge spike of vengeance and then expecting the pala to get the adds (no chance thats going to happen). Whoever you want to take the adds (hint: BrM with this comp) should pull the boss then when the adds spawn the other tank should take the boss. Voila, now you both have vengeance and do meaningful damage.

Having said that, the prot pala does appear pretty bad. I'm being a harsh critic because its the last boss of an expac and from that last attempt lets see what was sub par:
1) 2 mill damage on adds. Fine, he had no vengeance but he never used avengers shield or sotr on them. AS hits hard and hits all 3. sotr is off the gcd so its a freebie.
2) His rotation is wrong. Hes somehow using J more than CS. It's costing him holy power.
3) His sotr uptime is garbage. He hit it 13 times in 4 min for 20% uptime. It should be 60%+
4) His EF uptime is garbage.

Points 3 and 4 are worrying. This is the last HEROIC boss of an expac, his active mitigation should be amazing and its garbage. I don't know if thats because the BrM is whoring all the vengeance he feels wasted but wow. Hes failing at prot 101.

That night (on Friday) I did solo tank all of phase 1 which, sadly, was the majority of our attempts. We made the adjustment on Monday that I need to be letting him have the vengeance and what we did was exactly what you described. His damage of course increased. We did very well on Monday and we are getting the first intermission closer and closer to a science. I'll upload logs from Monday when I get home from work. Thank you very much Deja and to others for your continued advice throughout.

I'm torn on just one tanking the entire encounter. I knew he wasn't my best raider but I didn't realize that he was doing THAT poorly. I was planning on being the one kiting the Iron Star and also kiting adds during P3. Either way I need to make a decision on the final strategy soon.

Anymore insight into the dps logs would be highly valued and appreciated. Thanks.

[Deleted]

That night (on Friday) I did solo tank all of phase 1 which, sadly, was the majority of our attempts. We made the adjustment on Monday that I need to be letting him have the vengeance and what we did was exactly what you described. His damage of course increased. We did very well on Monday and we are getting the first intermission closer and closer to a science. I'll upload logs from Monday when I get home from work. Thank you very much Deja and to others for your continued advice throughout.

I'm torn on just one tanking the entire encounter. I knew he wasn't my best raider but I didn't realize that he was doing THAT poorly. I was planning on being the one kiting the Iron Star and also kiting adds during P3. Either way I need to make a decision on the final strategy soon.

Anymore insight into the dps logs would be highly valued and appreciated. Thanks.

Your raid generally has a paladin issue, as your Ret is also making inexcusably basic mistakes.

1. His gear isn't even optimized. Secondary stats are more valuable for Ret than str is, by a long shot, and yet he's gemming hybrid strength gems and reforging into expertise. This is egregiously incorrect. A Ret paladin under no circumstances wants to reforge into Expertise if at all avoidable - you always want to gem hybrid Exp gems and reforge out of it on gear.

2. He's using J and Exo over CS, which means he has no idea how his class works. Exo has the highest tooltip-listed damage, but procs neither Seals nor Mastery, and J does not proc Mastery either. Using J or Exo at any time where you could be using CS is a DPS loss. Beat this into his skull with a pneumatic drill, if you must. He is losing so much potential damage on this account.

3. He's missing a significant portion of his possible HoW casts, and there is literally never a good reason for this. HoW is your highest DPET ability under almost all circumstances, and when specced into SW you can cast it every second global, which equates to approximately 14 HoWs per Wings cycle. He is currently managing only 10 on average. This is an unacceptably low average - at least 12 is manageable even under the worst circumstances.

For reference, here is a breakdown of casts by ability from a top 100 Iron Juggernaut log:
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...e%24true%24125

Make sure you keep logging and compare his cast breakdowns to this. The important benchmarks are whether he uses CS - substitute for HotR on 3+ target - more than J and Exo (during Wings, he should never have any casts of the latter two unless he is out of melee range), and whether he has 14 casts of HoW per cast of Avenging Wrath. If he manages to correct his current mistakes and starts doing this, his damage should shoot up.

[Senkei]

Your raid generally has a paladin issue, as your Ret is also making inexcusably basic mistakes.

1. His gear isn't even optimized. Secondary stats are more valuable for Ret than str is, by a long shot, and yet he's gemming hybrid strength gems and reforging into expertise. This is egregiously incorrect. A Ret paladin under no circumstances wants to reforge into Expertise if at all avoidable - you always want to gem hybrid Exp gems and reforge out of it on gear.

2. He's using J and Exo over CS, which means he has no idea how his class works. Exo has the highest tooltip-listed damage, but procs neither Seals nor Mastery, and J does not proc Mastery either. Using J or Exo at any time where you could be using CS is a DPS loss. Beat this into his skull with a pneumatic drill, if you must. He is losing so much potential damage on this account.

3. He's missing a significant portion of his possible HoW casts, and there is literally never a good reason for this. HoW is your highest DPET ability under almost all circumstances, and when specced into SW you can cast it every second global, which equates to approximately 14 HoWs per Wings cycle. He is currently managing only 10 on average. This is an unacceptably low average - at least 12 is manageable even under the worst circumstances.

For reference, here is a breakdown of casts by ability from a top 100 Iron Juggernaut log:
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...e%24true%24125

Make sure you keep logging and compare his cast breakdowns to this. The important benchmarks are whether he uses CS - substitute for HotR on 3+ target - more than J and Exo (during Wings, he should never have any casts of the latter two unless he is out of melee range), and whether he has 14 casts of HoW per cast of Avenging Wrath. If he manages to correct his current mistakes and starts doing this, his damage should shoot up.

Thank you very much for your input. I will definitely pass this along.

[Deleted]

Thank you very much for your input. I will definitely pass this along.

If either of your paladins have MMO-C accounts and have questions they want answered without posting a thread, they're welcome to PM me. I've done every fight in the tier as both Ret and Prot 10 times over so if either of them need class-specific pointers about the fight I'm happy to help.

[tsumeno]

I've never done 10 man, so I can't help you organize your groups, but what I have found most people do is just ignore the back three. Have the group split 5-5 on the first two, both crush the middle, then split 5-5 again on the back.

Is that possible? I thought in 10m all three packs are engaged and have to be handled.

[Nnug]

As a BM hunter it's fairly doable to get 10m+ damage to a single group, your hunter however, doesn't seem to know what he is doing at all.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...t=36&source=42

He is just spamming MS on the group, and also using explosive trap (LOL). What he should be doing is holding his 2nd rabid going into it, popping everything, opening with MS, then continuing his normal single target rotation keeping Beast Cleave up and switching target to dps them evenly

- - - Updated - - -

Is that possible? I thought in 10m all three packs are engaged and have to be handled.

No, you can do first 3 then back 2 quite easily

[Senkei]

As a BM hunter it's fairly doable to get 10m+ damage to a single group, your hunter however, doesn't seem to know what he is doing at all.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...t=36&source=42

He is just spamming MS on the group, and also using explosive trap (LOL). What he should be doing is holding his 2nd rabid going into it, popping everything, opening with MS, then continuing his normal single target rotation keeping Beast Cleave up and switching target to dps them evenly

- - - Updated - - -



No, you can do first 3 then back 2 quite easily

I had a talk with the BM hunter the other day because I suspected his rotation wasn't optimized. We talked about his use of Focus Fire and his amount of Kill Commands in relation to Arcane Shot. He goes to the 2nd engineer so I think the explosive trap is from the start of the fight and then as he's running to the engineer. He remains highly convinced that he knows exactly how to play his spec.

Going to update the OP with the most recent log. This shows two days worth of progression on a single day. We are getting further and further along and managed one time to get the boss to 26% before intermission 2. We are slowly but surely progressing. I'm just still looking for any advice or tweaks to optimize DPS as much as possible.

I want to, again, thank everyone who has contributed so far to our guild's success.

- - - Updated - - -

These are the most recent logs:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/A6XqVWZN2yzCQPDb

[Tech614]

I always solo'd a pack by myself as a brewmaster monk when I did 10mH. 200k+ vengeance = go into phase with 4 chi banked, breath of fire, keg smash, breath of fire, leg sweep, chi burst, breath of fire and dead.

[Deja Thoris]

What I did is I put the logs of one of your better pulls next to the last kill I tanked. I truncated our fight to make the logs about the same duration to make comparison easier (7:15) Please don't see this as me picking on the pally. I'm looking at the prot pala because thats what I main. I may as well also write the disclaimer that I'm not really that great either :P (I also selected only Garrosh as a target to filter out filler damage to adds and so on)

Your pally logs http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ce=6&target=40
My pally logs http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ce=9&target=35

Ignore the damage difference - thats vengeance. Look at how much more I use my abilities.
- sotr 73 compared to 35
- Avengers shield 42 compared to 22

Now lets look at his buffs etc http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ht=23&source=6
1) He talented holy avenger (perhaps as a result of my older post). He used it once on this attempt just before the wipe. It's a 2 min cooldown and it has a dual purpose. First is it gives you 3 seconds of -50ish% damage reduction everytime you hit shield of the righteous. Second is its a damage dealing cooldown. On the pull once you have abit of vengeance pop HA and then crusader strike > sotr > judge sotr > crusader strike > sotr (of course with the normal fillers). It's good damage and amazing mitigation.
2) Wings! Once again he just randomly popped them 70% of the way though the fight. Once only.

Pairing HA with wings has nice synergy. Good burst from HA, more damage from wings and bigger EF healing if you refresh under wings. Hes not doing any of this.

I do it something like this. I pop wings and HA at or about the pull. I pop HA after first intermission and I delay my wings until just before the first whirling corruption so I can throw down a "wing empowered" hammer. I use HA again after the second intermission and wings on the final burn. I could also choose to delay my HA till the final burn but whatever.

He also only cast Eternal flame once in the fight. Seriously... thats a buff you should strive to have 100% uptime on. (Except ofc when you afk the 2nd intermission etc)

Other sundry stuff thats easy to see but I'm no expert on these classes.
1) Lock only has a 50ish% uptime on immolate. It's costing him a lot of resources and damage
2) Your disc needs to smite more (holy fire on CD) He cast it 18 times in 7 min. It's a 10 sec CD so more than 40 is possible. He cast halo 4 times in 7 min and frankly he manages to hit just about fuck all with it. In fact 3/4 of his halo damage was in the intermission which is the part hes getting right. He needs to use it better and more though. He can use it on both sets of adds at the start and he can run to bait the desecrates and use it near the end of a whirling corruption. He cast SW:P 22 times on the boss. Drop this, just smite! He should be aiming for 100k minimum dps and this shouldn't compromise his healing.

Apart from that, just looking at random replays you need to knock the adds back more to prevent needless wipes. You have a druid and hunters that can do it. Stun them just after the warsong and aoe the shit out of them. When the stuns wear off just slow em and ping them back repeatedly.

[Senkei]

I always solo'd a pack by myself as a brewmaster monk when I did 10mH. 200k+ vengeance = go into phase with 4 chi banked, breath of fire, keg smash, breath of fire, leg sweep, chi burst, breath of fire and dead.

I've been saving Xuen and soloing the front right group. I make sure Xuen engages first, Chi Burst, Keg Smash, Leg Sweep, 2 SCKs and they're dead. Tiger's Lust and run through mid SCKing and that usually kills them. I then move to back left and am usually the second person there. Xuen converges with front left group and we get it down. If I can get away with what you just described then I can have xuen at pull and for start of p2 after soaking annihilates. Really not sure if I should adjust since we have intermission one down very frequently now (when we get there ) and only reaching 25 energy a small amount of the time.

I agree that the second set of adds in p1 need to be handled more consistently. I've just now started using avert harm for the 3-4 seconds we have adds hitting people til the star rolls out and it seems to work wonderfully. It's up for the first whirl but not up for the intermission in case I need to pop it in an emergency.

[Nnug]

I had a talk with the BM hunter the other day because I suspected his rotation wasn't optimized. We talked about his use of Focus Fire and his amount of Kill Commands in relation to Arcane Shot. He goes to the 2nd engineer so I think the explosive trap is from the start of the fight and then as he's running to the engineer. He remains highly convinced that he knows exactly how to play his spec.

Going to update the OP with the most recent log. This shows two days worth of progression on a single day. We are getting further and further along and managed one time to get the boss to 26% before intermission 2. We are slowly but surely progressing. I'm just still looking for any advice or tweaks to optimize DPS as much as possible.

I want to, again, thank everyone who has contributed so far to our guild's success.

- - - Updated - - -

These are the most recent logs:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/A6XqVWZN2yzCQPDb

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...-done&source=9

34 KC in 7m... He definitely DOESN'T know what he's doing when it comes to playing BM.

[Senkei]

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...-done&source=9

34 KC in 7m... He definitely DOESN'T know what he's doing when it comes to playing BM.

I brought this to his attention when I talked to him the first time. The fact he has a low count of Kill Command compared to Arcane Shot and he said it was because of the set bonus that lowers the remaining cooldown on Rapid Fire. So based on your feedback, I'm going to guess that is inherently wrong and he should not be playing around that set bonus.