What would a Shaman give to the group?

[Valqt]

Problem with Elemental is a lot of bosses are two targets or more, and there's not really a lot of sustained 5-target AoE in the upcoming raids. Pure single target is only good if there's no heavy movement, as we rely on UE, Lava Surge and Shocks (if SWG is on cd). I guess the new Mastery is really good for heavy movement fights, but meh.

[Deleted]

So who are you ? Because all I know about you is that you don't know how to play on beta "Epsi".

Everything you need to know about me is, that being ranked at 100-150 is pretty much semi-hardcore, or whatever you call the people who still raid 4 days a week or so and achieve "nothing". Its of course not bad, but still, very far from hardcore, or cutting edge, like I said before.

[Tenris]

Warm hugs and a reassuring attitude.

[Chubathingy]

Everything you need to know about me

Bad troll is bad, non answer is no answer. I am guessing if you have a shaman its an alt, or that you haven't even played this expansion and you like to whine about stuff for attention.

being ranked at 100-150 is pretty much semi-hardcore, or whatever you call the people who still raid 4 days a week or so and achieve "nothing". Its of course not bad, but still, very far from hardcore, or cutting edge, like I said before.

You are the one mentioning "hardcore" and "cutting edge" and such made up labels(opinion). I mentioned numbers(fact).

[Deleted]

i will never forgive myself for maining shammy,worst class in wow pve and pvp wise,trust me wod shammy is shit right now

I won't listen to someone who can't post some arguments to why they are shit.

[desert-wind]

Good Burst, Good AOE, AG still helps in a pinch, Spreading out loot distribution, respec healer if needed, knockback (There have been plenty of fights where you needed knockbacks.

Choose one.

Our burst is not good, ag does nothing, loot distribution prioritises hunters > shamans, healer is valid but u could just have a ms healer or a useful druid instead, hunters and all druid specs have knockbacks.

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Bad troll is bad, non answer is no answer. I am guessing if you have a shaman its an alt, or that you haven't even played this expansion and you like to whine about stuff for attention.



You are the one mentioning "hardcore" and "cutting edge" and such made up labels(opinion). I mentioned numbers(fact).

Chuba i've stayed ahead of the theorycrafting and I can do more dps on my alts than I can on my shaman on dummies in the latest build so not sure if srs ?

On boss testing I beat most people because my learning curve is 1 pull, not because the class is competitive, throughout each boss test i usually drop further and further on the metres as more people work out the mechanics.

Disregarding melee because its not so relevant to us if you're beating mages and hunters its probably because they're playing poorly, not because you have discovered some magical way to play shamans.

[Deleted]

Bad troll is bad, non answer is no answer. I am guessing if you have a shaman its an alt, or that you haven't even played this expansion and you like to whine about stuff for attention.



You are the one mentioning "hardcore" and "cutting edge" and such made up labels(opinion). I mentioned numbers(fact).

Yeah, whatever.

Hardcore and cutting edge just describe the rank brackets. I didn't say anything more than 150 being not bad, but far from the actual good guys.

[Deleted]

I am starting to think that you guys don't understand the new Ele mechanics or just aren't very good at the game and can't push your numbers when a higher skill cap is added to the equation...
.

Elemental is even simpler in WoD. From all the tests I've done elemental is simply behind in both AoE and Single target, and very far behind in spread multi target fights + we still suck d. at quick swaps. Blizz did say they want us to do good ST and cleave so I guess it's gonna get buffed eventually, but we still have areas where we're beyond terrible, with our utility gone, and gear being flexible depending on spec, what exactly does ele bring at this point ?
Dunno, maybe they change stuff around but it's really looking grim at this point.

[lokithor]

Not sure about shortest, but absurdly strong due to the fact it's a ranged interupt that follow melee interupt rules (no blanket silence, short cd, facing requirements as far as I remember).


@OP
Chainheal was never OP as ele, and tbh I don't think it was even used after... lvl 80 zul aman?... as elemental.
Bandaid totem was bad from the beginning and it was a higher dps gain for resto than it was for the dps specs (obviously), plus it was an excuse for shit scaling. (Why does shaman need bandaid totem for all specs and vigor for resto, both being unique buffs? Yes, rhetorical question )

ehh with chain heal I still piss around with in in siege phase on H Jugg.


With tht siad i really dont have to though lol

[desert-wind]

Elemental is even simpler in WoD. From all the tests I've done elemental is simply behind in both AoE and Single target, and very far behind in spread multi target fights + we still suck d. at quick swaps. Blizz did say they want us to do good ST and cleave so I guess it's gonna get buffed eventually, but we still have areas where we're beyond terrible, with our utility gone, and gear being flexible depending on spec, what exactly does ele bring at this point ?
Dunno, maybe they change stuff around but it's really looking grim at this point.

RE: the difficulty; Couldn't disagree more, with the sheer number of dps buttons we have, procs, stacks, shock juggling, totem placement, pets and limited / interchanging spells while moving, the way our aoe works, the vast difference in play our talents bring... I would personally say from a dps perspective alone ele is more complex and varied than it has ever been... (even if borderline clunky) and compared to the dumbed down versions a lot of other classes are seeing, one of the more challenging in the game to get every scrap of dps out.

[Deleted]

Ele is still super simple with close to 0 depth and complexity.
Shock juggling is simpler, totem placement is pretty much irrelevant as it is with HTT and SLT gone, pets are still boring and are 99,9% of the time press and forget,. interwhat while moving ? If you need to move you shock and run, that's pretty much it. Casting another spell every 10 seconds while AoEing hardly makes it any more complex. What complexity do WoD talent changes bring, you either keep a talent on CD or use a same spell twice in a row, 0 complexity. It's gonna feel super clunky cause meta gem is gone, and high cast times which had to be brought in cause of the meta gem, are staying.

Not trying to be rude or anything but Ele barely changed, if anything it feels way less engaging in WoD imo, atleast in MoP you had to pay some attention to your procs or what you're doing with super fast cast timers, not really the case in WoD.

[Deleted]

the vast difference in play our talents bring

You cannot possibly be serious. There is no competition for a worse, less gameplay affecting talent tree than any of the shaman ones.

[Deleted]

enhancement is really strong in wod atm, also we bring off healing and more party utilitys than a mage, as it looks in beta right now, id pick a shaman over a mage

Perhaps before they nerfed our damage by 15% over the last few weeks. Enhancement is very weak, especially compared to nearly all ither melees.

And mages raid utility is a lot better. AG heals for roughly 60-80k per app, mage cds bring actually a lot more. Without overheal it can be 3-5 times stronger than AG and dimishes in value the more overheal you have.

Also in raid testing, shamans were realky bad healing wise. Shadows had 100% more healing done without losing damage. Our raid cd has to be talented, that alone is stupid, and only works in smaller groups, isnt balanced for 20m raids. It is stronger if you can AOE or bosses take increased damage.

[Deleted]

enhancement is really strong in wod atm, also we bring off healing and more party utilitys than a mage, as it looks in beta right now, id pick a shaman over a mage

Err, I think you'll find it's the other way round now. Enh is nothing but a squishy pure dps class with no burst, survivability or utility.

[Gurg]

You cannot possibly be serious. There is no competition for a worse, less gameplay affecting talent tree than any of the shaman ones.

My DK is waiving shyly from the corner:"Hi!" .0/

@OP:

All specs - Grace of Air - 550 mastery and 5% Haste raid wide.
Self only:
Enhance - 5% haste on all haste, Haste reduces GCD and CD of Lava Lash, Stormstrike, Unleashed Elements, Shocks and Fire Nova.
Elemental - 20% Multristrike hit, 5% Multistrike on all multistrike and 35% increased multistrike damage.
Resto - 5% mastery on all mastery, Restoring mana per spell cast.

Tbh, as much as i tested Enhance.. it feels exactly the same, more fluent but thats it. We lost a ton of utility and pretty much except offheals boosted by MW (which is DPS loos) and Storm Elemental (again DPS loss), raid wide movement buff and offheal we got nothing to bring except Good DPS.
Thats pretty much it.

[Raiju]

My DK is waiving shyly from the corner:"Hi!" .0/

@OP:

All specs - Grace of Air - 550 mastery and 5% Haste raid wide.
Self only:
Enhance - 5% haste on all haste, Haste reduces GCD and CD of Lava Lash, Stormstrike, Unleashed Elements, Shocks and Fire Nova.
Elemental - 20% Multristrike hit, 5% Multistrike on all multistrike and 35% increased multistrike damage.
Resto - 5% mastery on all mastery, Restoring mana per spell cast.

Passive buffs are redundant in a 20man setting with so many classes bringing so many buffs each.

[Deleted]

Passive buffs are redundant in a 20man setting with so many classes bringing so many buffs each.

Of course they are. What really matters is special utility like raid CDs (Healing, -damage taken, additional hp and so on).

Additionally, certain speccs bring certrain special utility:
- DKs have mass grip
- AOE Stuns
- Interrupts
- Very strong Def CDs like Dispersion or Ice Block
- Pretty much all warlock stuff (portals and health stones)
- Battlerezzes
- Kiting (especially monks are great, but also dks and warriors)
- Off-Tanking
- Anti CC like Tremor/Mass Dispel
- Debuffing targets
- Movement buffs (at best for the whole raid like druids have)
- ... (probably forgot something)

I don't know what ENO wants to tell us. Every class has one stat that is increased by 5%. Those things actually don't matter.

[Gurg]

Of course they are. What really matters is special utility like raid CDs (Healing, -damage taken, additional hp and so on).
I don't know what ENO wants to tell us. Every class has one stat that is increased by 5%. Those things actually don't matter.

I Was telling what shamans bring by default since it can easily happen that certain raid setups doesnt have some passive that shamans can cover. Outside of that theres Windwalk totem (movement impairing effect immunity for 6sec), Storm Elemental totem (offhealing and when speced into Primal Elementalist 100% movement increase speed and knockback), Capacitor totme (8yrds 5 second AoE stun) semi weak offhealing and filing loot distribution slot

[desert-wind]

I think managing movement by using the correct off cd priority between juggling shock cd and the usage of Either UE or the correct shock or AS or searing totem is engaging and adds more depth then we had previously. I think both the EM / AS / Echo (echo is trash though and needs rework / fix) and between the 90 tier and 100 tier adds extra buttons rotationally or changes the way we manage shocks on multi target.

Having said that, you can spec EM, PE, SE. and have 2 5 minute cds, only have UE / Shocks occasional searing totem for movement and have a very simple and linear class while performing well.

If we got a better mastery, scrapped EQ, fixed echo and like doubled AG's healing I think I'd actually be fairly happy with where ele is.

Oh, and i'd still like a real mobility tier to replace totem tier ofc.

[Raiju]

I Was telling what shamans bring by default since it can easily happen that certain raid setups doesnt have some passive that shamans can cover. Outside of that theres Windwalk totem (movement impairing effect immunity for 6sec), Storm Elemental totem (offhealing and when speced into Primal Elementalist 100% movement increase speed and knockback), Capacitor totme (8yrds 5 second AoE stun) semi weak offhealing and filing loot distribution slot

It is nonexistent in 25man right now and it will be nonexistent in 20man (where the only semi rare debuff - spell haste - is being folded into haste). This is not a reason to bring a shaman to a raid group.

Windwalk totem is extremely situational, and in the past has been made near useless by Demonic Gateway and Savage roar (naturally...). We will see in WoD, but I doubt it will be significantly better than in MoP. You want a notable raid movement cd? Aspect of the Fox.

Storm elemental totem - offhealing has shown to be pretty damn poor from what I saw, the knockup is the equivalent of an interrupt considering it barely repositions the target by itself (novelty?), the speed increase may be good if positioned well, although it's only within a short range of the slow moving elemental. Situationally it might be worth it though? Not a reason to bring a shaman, regardless.

Capacitor totem is a bad version of leg sweep / shadowfury, not that aoe stuns are really common outside of CM's - rather bring a warlock offering better raid mobility and better stuns, here. They can also soak well.

Semi-weak offhealing - I'll let this one pass, as while our healing is weak I haven't really compared it to healers directly (its proportional amount is important). Enhancement loses a LOT of damage to heal though, compared to MoP.

Gear - nonissue. The only slot that isn't taken by 5 other people in your raid is the weapons, which only require a rogue or monk. Rogues are looking to be solid dps so why not bring them?