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  1. #41
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by pulchritudinous View Post
    I believe offensive still only gives 2 stacks.

    And isn't borrowed time pretty meh unless we have a lot of haste? I don't really notice the cast time differences with the buff up.
    Borrowed time is meh even if you have a lot of haste, unless its bonus haste like heroism. I posted the detail calculations in this forum somewhere showing that there is no real benefit to stacking haste instead of crit. However you always have some haste from the haste buff. Even 2% extra haste on 3 PoH casts is enough to make it a net gain especially since PWS overheals less than PoH in general.

    Even if its by a tiny amount PWS:3xPoH is better HPS and better HPM than straight PoH spam.

  2. #42
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc12 View Post
    Borrowed time is meh even if you have a lot of haste, unless its bonus haste like heroism. I posted the detail calculations in this forum somewhere showing that there is no real benefit to stacking haste instead of crit. However you always have some haste from the haste buff. Even 2% extra haste on 3 PoH casts is enough to make it a net gain especially since PWS overheals less than PoH in general.

    Even if its by a tiny amount PWS:3xPoH is better HPS and better HPM than straight PoH spam.

    Ohh okay gotcha, wasn't entirely sure how it worked. On beta right now borrowed time takes .1sec off my poh casts. I can fit 2 pohs in each borrowed time buff.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Saphiramoon View Post
    Thank you for the topic, was looking for something like this, as I didn't have a lot of time to play the beta. Is it alright if I transfer the breakdown of changes to the european wow boards?
    Yeah you're welcome to do that, and it's nothing special anyway, I only copied the patch notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkmorcel View Post
    Other topic : has anyone worked on a disc's spells relative HPS and HPM spreadsheet yet ? That could be of great help if we want to establish our priorities and standard "rotations".
    Yes, Twistedmynd did a while back which I used for my calculations around the strength of Atonement healing in comparison to how strong Celestalon seemed to think it should be. I don't have his original spreadsheet, but here's the copy with my Atonement Calc's added: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    A few things to note - that was several weeks ago now, and although there haven't been many changes there have been some:
    • Grace is now 20% up from 8% - the value will need to be changed from 1.08 to 1.2
    • COW was buffed since then - its coefficient will need revising.
    • PWS was buffed since then - its coefficient will need revising.
    • Holy Nova was nerfed since then - its coefficient will need revising.
    There may also be some things I'm not aware of. Best thing would be to find out if Twisted has updated his original since then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc12 View Post
    Borrowed time is meh even if you have a lot of haste, unless its bonus haste like heroism. I posted the detail calculations in this forum somewhere showing that there is no real benefit to stacking haste instead of crit. However you always have some haste from the haste buff. Even 2% extra haste on 3 PoH casts is enough to make it a net gain especially since PWS overheals less than PoH in general.

    Even if its by a tiny amount PWS:3xPoH is better HPS and better HPM than straight PoH spam.
    If it's not too much to ask, would you be able to dig up that post and copy/quote/link it here? That's the kind of stuff I really want to consolidate in one place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by moothz View Post
    About our stats, I believe we have something like this:

    1. Critical Rating: Divine Aegis on Holy Hova, nuff said
    2. Mastery: Overall Healing improvement, good scaling
    3. Multistrike: A second and third chance to increase our bubbles
    4. Haste: Most of our casts should consist of Holy Nova and PW:S, Borrowed Time Interaction is nice, but no rush to get haste - if the gear happens to have it nice, if it doesn't, no problem. We won't be spamming Prayer of Healing anymore
    5. Versatility: Attonement is bad and won't be fixed, very low healing increase and useless for damage increase

    I would go full crit with my gems since there doesn't seem to be any color limitations anymore.

    --- Edited, not relevant since I overlooked Archangel changes
    So, I'm wondering if our mastery actually takes precedence over crit. I haven't got beta so I haven't yet looked into the raid enounters yet. I was thinking that crit will favor stacked fights where we can use a lot of Holy Nova and Divine Star, and mastery will favor spread fights where we tend to use PWS/COW spam. In this early tier however, since Mastery scales better than crit per rating, I was wondering if we should be going for mastery > crit > ms > haste > vers instead.

    Obviously mastery is still good for stacked and crit is still good for spread, they have a very strong symbiotic relationship after all. Also, because of that symbiotic relationship, whenever you get more crit then mastery becomes better until you have more mastery again and so on.

    Haste certainly isn't going to become valuable just because of the new Borrowed Time. MORE valuable than before? Yes, probably. But generally valuable in comparison to other stats? Certainly not. Blizzard doesn't understand that for a stat to become valuable for us then it needs to have more function than to just decrease our GCD. We're still king of the instant casts, and that's not going to change without a serious revamp, so haste is still generally useless. Until haste has a chance to reset our cd on penance or something actually useful, its going to remain heavily devalued.

    I don't think we should rule out versatility just yet though. While it's obviously not as valuable as Mastery/Crit/MS, i think its debatable as to whether it's better than haste. That being said, i *think* versatility has diminishing returns, which would mean that it has a psudo *cap* value after which it becomes our worst stat due to scaling. But I think low levels of versatility will be more valuable than haste. This could be simply the innate versatility we get from raid buffs or whatever, but there's a likeliness that given the option, at some early point we will choose versatility over haste.
    Disc Priests: Just 2 mana trinkets away from becoming Withered

  4. #44
    Apparently divine aegis was double dipping from grace since it's both a healing and absorb modifier which would explain the huge aegis numbers you could pull off before. This seems to be corrected now and you only benefit once.

  5. #45
    Little bit of a tangent but all this talk of both disc and holy being quite spammy to play efficiently reminded me of this interview;

    "Encounters will include more classes mechanics, especially for healers. Healing in Mists of Pandaria wasn't very interesting. In Warlords of Draenor, Blizzard wants to deploy interesting mechanics for healers and make sure their role isn't to just spam the same skill again and again. They will have to chose the right skill, at the right time, on the right target."
    Source

    Ironically as we get closer to WoD it appears that both holy and discipline are now on par to be more 'spammy' than MoP - just with different spells.

  6. #46
    I'm not even surprised about that kind of oversight. Good thing to know. Hopefully they will consider that enough of a change and won't feel it necessary to also nerf us before more proper raid testing happens.

    Back to the topic of stats, I was thinking that crit is probably still better even with the pure absorbs, since it will double their value rather than just increase it linearly. But then again, crit is pretty unreliable until we get to pretty high levels of it, while mastery is guaranteed throughput.

    And with the WoD focus on pure absorbs rather than mindless T90 DA generation or reactive Atonement spamming, I think that our focus will shift back towards our real purpose of pre-shielding, which makes mastery again more favorable. Spirit Shell/ COW / PWS will allow us to cover a large range of mechanics and pre-shielding, and mastery will benefit these more reliably. Crit will result in bigger throughput, but our goal isn't throughput but rather damage mitigation, in which case we value consistency over RNG. Crit is still our 2nd best stat, but I feel that at this point we might want to favor mastery. I honestly can tell. What are people's thoughts about how our role has changed in WoD and how this will change our focus with stats and throughput?
    Disc Priests: Just 2 mana trinkets away from becoming Withered

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Atonement View Post
    Back to the topic of stats, I was thinking that crit is probably still better even with the pure absorbs, since it will double their value rather than just increase it linearly. But then again, crit is pretty unreliable until we get to pretty high levels of it, while mastery is guaranteed throughput.

    And with the WoD focus on pure absorbs rather than mindless T90 DA generation or reactive Atonement spamming, I think that our focus will shift back towards our real purpose of pre-shielding, which makes mastery again more favorable. Spirit Shell/ COW / PWS will allow us to cover a large range of mechanics and pre-shielding, and mastery will benefit these more reliably. Crit will result in bigger throughput, but our goal isn't throughput but rather damage mitigation, in which case we value consistency over RNG. Crit is still our 2nd best stat, but I feel that at this point we might want to favor mastery. I honestly can tell. What are people's thoughts about how our role has changed in WoD and how this will change our focus with stats and throughput?
    Even with the limited ability to reroll stats, gearing towards a particular stat during progression for a particular encounter is risky.
    Unless there is a particular niche or overpowering strength of discipline in comparison to holy (PW:B, SS etc.), I think its more likely people will play holy as its a clear cut stat priority and therefore easier to maximise output with limited risk.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by appro View Post
    Little bit of a tangent but all this talk of both disc and holy being quite spammy to play efficiently reminded me of this interview;

    "Encounters will include more classes mechanics, especially for healers. Healing in Mists of Pandaria wasn't very interesting. In Warlords of Draenor, Blizzard wants to deploy interesting mechanics for healers and make sure their role isn't to just spam the same skill again and again. They will have to chose the right skill, at the right time, on the right target."
    Source

    Ironically as we get closer to WoD it appears that both holy and discipline are now on par to be more 'spammy' than MoP - just with different spells.
    I think that 'spammy' is generally being confused with a narrower range of spells to choose from. I also think that Blizzard didn't actually do much healing testing in MoP, or has any idea what they're talking about. They're confusing "spam" with "always having something to do". In MoP, there was ALWAYS something to do, there was always a button to press, for every spec. For healers, blizzard seems to interpret this as spam. Maybe they actually believe the LFR QQ generalizations they hear "Oh disc is 1 button OP just smite to win". This is far from the truth. Any good disc knows that smite is our lowest priority ability in the vast majority of situations. We had a number of other abilities to use, to maintain on cooldown, to maintain uptime on, to react to damage or prepare for mechanics with. Other healers have these things too, and/or resources to manage (hopo, chi) and/or cooldowns to make use of. In MoP, I really don't think anyone was simply spamming just 1 or even 2 moves. Not a single healing spec was as simplified as something like DW Frost dk.

    In WoD, I still doubt this is the case. The difference is just which moves we make the most use of, and the somewhat narrower range of moves to use. Disc lost renew and Binding Heal, but gained Holy Nova and CoW from talents. Holy didn't gain anything, PoH gets replaced from their talent.
    We still have T90 to make use of. We still have atonement for downtime. We still need to watch timers and prepare spirit shell. We have multiple single target absorbs now. We still have penance and holy fire to use on cooldown. We still have PoH and archangel and a kind of Inner Focus. We have a new spell, Holy Nova.
    Looking at those logs from before, all these things are still being used, not just a single one of them.
    So is 'always having something to do' what people mean by 'spammy'?
    What do define as 'spammy'?
    What do you expect 'not spammy' to look like? Does it mean having downtime where you do nothing? Does it mean you never cast the same spell twice in a row? Does it mean not having so many instant casts?

    In any case, while it is a valid concern, complaining about the feel of healing isn't going to help us work out how to heal in WoD any better

    - - - Updated - - -
    Last edited by Jimjam38; 2014-09-24 at 05:40 AM. Reason: lol wot
    Disc Priests: Just 2 mana trinkets away from becoming Withered

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Atonement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by appro View Post
    Ironically as we get closer to WoD it appears that both holy and discipline are now on par to be more 'spammy' than MoP - just with different spells.
    What do define as 'spammy'?
    I would define the current beta implementations of both holy and disc to be spammy. Outside of CDs and Archangel its ~3 spells per spec? Granted the spells can vary based in whether you're stacked or spread but its still very basic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atonement View Post
    What do you expect 'not spammy' to look like? Does it mean having downtime where you do nothing? Does it mean you never cast the same spell twice in a row? Does it mean not having so many instant casts?
    Legitimate choices and decisions between mechanics and synergy, and throughput and mana cost.
    What we have on beta feels like a pseudo attempt at this without any real depth as there is a clear cut spell priority for both stacked and spread situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atonement View Post
    They're confusing "spam" with "always having something to do". In MoP, there was ALWAYS something to do, there was always a button to press, for every spec.
    There has been and will continue to always be something to do. There is only a finite amount of healing required and once this amount is met a healer should typically be assisting the raid via whatever DPS they can muster. A large advantage of Discipline, and to an extent Mistweaver was the ability to DPS with minimal loss of healing capacity compared to other healers - whether this continues to be the case remains unclear - however its worth noting that Mistweaver DPS does appear to be quite strong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atonement View Post
    In any case, while it is a valid concern, complaining about the feel of healing isn't going to help us work out how to heal in WoD any better
    Its not a feeling, its what healing priests currently are on beta.
    Given that the developers seem extremely reluctant to implement any mechanics or synergy between spells it seems apparent the only way to solve this issue of spam is to change the coefficients of spells. This is not something any of us are qualified to legitimately attempt hence one can only express discontent with the current style. I understand that expressing disappointment its not particularly productive, but there isn't anything we can actually do within the current model developers appear to be hellbent on implementing (I'm referring to the skill cap ceiling being lowered via reduction of spells and synergy mechanics).

  10. #50
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Atonement View Post
    So, I'm wondering if our mastery actually takes precedence over crit.
    Without actual calculations behind, I wouldn't be surprised if mastery is better at the start of the expansion and loses steadily to crit later: it's usually how classes that scale with crit go - at the start the % is too low to be reliable and mana maters more so you can't just spam in hope for a crit. Sura, mana is supposed to work different than it did so far, but yet to see if the model actually does what was promised on the label.

    About feeling spammy/always having something to do - I quite like the "always something to do" part. It's the reason why I always enjoyed disc more - as holy you needed to throttle a lot. I didn't try raids myself either, just 5 mans, and it seems to me that smite spam when nothing much to do is still okay - and what atonement should have stayed imo.

  11. #51
    Awesome threat Atonement. i`ll be wachting this one.
    On another note.

    I might have missed it completely or just cant find it (snowed under in one of the other threats).
    But what exactly are the set bonuses on the first tier in WOD

    Edit: nvm i found them

    Priest T17 Discipline 2P Bonus: Penance channels for 1 additional second and generates 2 stacks of Evangelism.

    Priest T17 Discipline 4P Bonus: When you activate Archangel, the mana cost of Prayer of Healing is reduced by 50% for 8 sec.
    Last edited by Succath; 2014-09-24 at 01:16 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    The pre-WotLK Mind Flay animation. 2nd biggest reason for rolling a Priest, biggest obviously being Shadowform. Anyone who uses Glyph of Shadow should reroll Hunter, filthy blasphemers.

  12. #52
    Deleted
    So is Atonement completely dead in WoD? I absolutely hate it, think its a terrible playstyle and is just simply unfun. If it is dead is there any chance of it coming back in later patches do you guys think?

    I really love the idea of shielding healer, I played a Scholar in FFXIV which is very similar to a Disc. And as I'm most likely going to be play a healer in WoD Trying to see my options etc

  13. #53
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vecayse View Post
    So is Atonement completely dead in WoD? I absolutely hate it, think its a terrible playstyle and is just simply unfun. If it is dead is there any chance of it coming back in later patches do you guys think?

    I really love the idea of shielding healer, I played a Scholar in FFXIV which is very similar to a Disc. And as I'm most likely going to be play a healer in WoD Trying to see my options etc
    I wouldn't say it's dead, but definitely not something you should do when actual healing is needed. It doesn't replace real healing anymore.

  14. #54
    I've been playing 5-mans on the Beta so here's my experience from those:
    Atonement is not quite dead in 5-mans, it's been weakened... you are a dps untill your Tank or Dps take a blow so they're sub 60% hp... then you AA -> PW:S -> Penance that target/targets(pw:s) and don't forget to blanket the group with a Prayer of Healing before your AA goes away... continue to top off with smite healing, takes a while but you bubbles usually keep them at "full health" until you can top them off.

    If the tank continues to take a lot of dmg(sub 30%) start flash healing him ontop of a PainSup... mana stays ok unless many people do the wrong stuff for a long period of time, and there is still abilities out there that you just can't save them from.

    Prayer of Mending feels like a "meh I got nothing else to do so why not" ability. Almost like Renew used to be... outside on-the-move.
    Holy Nova isn't used that much in 5-mans... it's more of a blanket absorbs + smite filler enviroment, sure spam it while walking to the next mob pack... it's basically mana free out of combat.

    What stats will I be pursuing? First Tier of raiding and gear hunting I will go for Mastery on every piece and gemming. Crit as 2nd would be lovely but I think a healthy mix of everything would work out fine... as long as I have Mastery I'm happy.

  15. #55
    I'll probably be playing holy in my guild during the first few weeks of progression until I can snag some decent gear ( hopefully tier )

    I agree with some of the posters that mastery > crit for the first few weeks while leveling/dungeons until you can get your hands on competitive gear. We are definitely as stat/gear dependent as with previous expansions
    Teegers - Disc/Holy Priest - Summit - 14/14H
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vecayse View Post
    So is Atonement completely dead in WoD? I absolutely hate it, think its a terrible playstyle and is just simply unfun. If it is dead is there any chance of it coming back in later patches do you guys think?
    You still want to use Solace on cooldown and use Penance offensively, until the two-set bonus, to generate the Evangelism stacks for Archangel, as far as I can tell.

    Spamming Atonement as the default seems to be dead, which is a good thing IMO.
    That is not dead which can eternal lie.
    And with strange aeons even death may die.

  17. #57
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by pulchritudinous View Post
    Ohh okay gotcha, wasn't entirely sure how it worked. On beta right now borrowed time takes .1sec off my poh casts. I can fit 2 pohs in each borrowed time buff.
    True you would need about 10% haste (~500 rating + haste buff) to get 3 PoHs per borrowed time.
    Last edited by mmoc58baca37e6; 2014-09-25 at 01:21 AM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Vecayse View Post
    So is Atonement completely dead in WoD? I absolutely hate it, think its a terrible playstyle and is just simply unfun. If it is dead is there any chance of it coming back in later patches do you guys think?

    I really love the idea of shielding healer, I played a Scholar in FFXIV which is very similar to a Disc. And as I'm most likely going to be play a healer in WoD Trying to see my options etc
    This is why I always suggested that atonement should be something you can delve into or out of via talents, like how Shadow can now build into 'shadowmage' or 'shadowpriest' depending on talents. I personally like atonement and think its a core element of the spec, one which is refreshing and sets it apart from holy and other healers, but a lot of people are also of your own mind and absolutely lothe it. But enough on that, as my op stated, I want to keep the 'shoulda woulda coulda' stuff to a minimum

    To answer your question, yes, atonement is far less used in WoD, its much more situational than in MoP, basically because atonement spells are heavily undertuned relative to our other abilities, not to mention the nerf to smart healing.
    You'll still absolutely want to squeeze in some offensive penance and holy fire/solace for archangel, since Inner Focus is now frustratingly baked into Archangel, and especially if using solace (which looks mandatory because of insane mana regen) and/or with the disc 2 set, but smite is pretty much dead in the water.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by appro View Post
    (1) I would define the current beta implementations of both holy and disc to be spammy. Outside of CDs and Archangel its ~3 spells per spec? Granted the spells can vary based in whether you're stacked or spread but its still very basic.


    (2) Legitimate choices and decisions between mechanics and synergy, and throughput and mana cost.
    What we have on beta feels like a pseudo attempt at this without any real depth as there is a clear cut spell priority for both stacked and spread situations.


    (3) There has been and will continue to always be something to do. There is only a finite amount of healing required and once this amount is met a healer should typically be assisting the raid via whatever DPS they can muster. A large advantage of Discipline, and to an extent Mistweaver was the ability to DPS with minimal loss of healing capacity compared to other healers - whether this continues to be the case remains unclear - however its worth noting that Mistweaver DPS does appear to be quite strong.


    (4) Its not a feeling, its what healing priests currently are on beta.
    Given that the developers seem extremely reluctant to implement any mechanics or synergy between spells it seems apparent the only way to solve this issue of spam is to change the coefficients of spells. This is not something any of us are qualified to legitimately attempt hence one can only express discontent with the current style. I understand that expressing disappointment its not particularly productive, but there isn't anything we can actually do within the current model developers appear to be hellbent on implementing (I'm referring to the skill cap ceiling being lowered via reduction of spells and synergy mechanics).
    (1,2) It's basic, but that kind of has been the WoD design intention with pruning and all. I don't think they handled it right, and I honestly don't think that it was really necessary for more than a few specs to begin with who really were overwhelmed with keybinds (like hunters), but that's how WoD is.

    There is also a certain elegance in a spec with only a few buttons to press - I'd put Arcane up as the poster boy in this regard. Its extremely minimalist - literally only 4 buttons; Arcane Blast, Arcane Barrage, Arcane Missiles and Arcane Explosion, their entire raiding dps rotation is available to them by level 24, tied together with one passive - 'Arcane Charge'. But it's still got a lot of depth and skillcap to playing it well when you introduce the mastery and mana management. Arcane feels like a spec that was very carefully designed (or revamped, idk). Fire does too, but I feel like fire is less elegant in its design.

    I get the feeling that this is kind of what blizzard wanted to achieve for every spec with WoD, but they failed miserably. The fact was that most specs, healer's particularly, just can't be made that simple and still feel ultimately engaging, which is exactly the kind of feedback we're getting now. It might even have worked for us, but they pruned the wrong passives and abilities and so what we have is the minimal spells without the engaging passives. They might get there and fix this, but based on the history of priest development, I'm doubtful.

    (3) I personally think Mistweaver's fistweaving in WoD is getting very close to the perfect model for "Atonement" type mechanics. It's not quiet there because of GCD issues, but they're close. I also feel like Atonement took a beating so that they could let fistweaving shine more, since fistweaving was part of the original design intent of Mistweavers, while Atonement has kinda just wormed its way into disc due to a lack of actual design development. But yes, there will always be something to do, no matter how they change the 'healing model' because that's just how the game is now, they'll never go back to Vanilla and BC days where you downranked spells or played to the 5 second rule (I'm just going off of what I've heard, I personally started in Wrath) and I think the game is faster paced now and that alone means there's always something to do.

    (4) Yes, I understand your concern. It's my concern too. I can't really speak for Holy, but I feel like this resulted for disc due to their attempt to sideline the use of atonement, despite half our specs functionality revolving around it. It wasn't really something they could just butcher and shelf like they did, only to be taken down on a rainy day when there's nothing to really heal. It's resulted in us stuck with a very jarring use of archangel, while only utilizing a few other spells outside of it. At this point, I think the entire spec, maybe the entire class, needs a serious revamp. Whether we get it in WoD or the next xpac is anyone's guess. I personally think that WoD will be a lot of hotfixes and changes between patches as they scramble to fix the vast swarm of class problems they've created with the pruning, so any potential priest revamp will need to wait until the next xpac and even then we can only hope.
    But as I keep saying and you echoed in your response, as frustrating as our gameplay has become, we're stuck with it and Holy is hardly any better, so we may as well just try to work with what we have.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc12 View Post
    True you would need about 10% haste (~500 rating + haste buff) to get 3 PoHs per borrowed time.
    This is the kind of stuff I really want to discuss. Twistedmind's spreadsheet had it at 100 rating / 1% for haste for disc at level 100, not sure if that was right or not, but 10% haste would be exactly 5% baseline buff + 500 rating.

    500/1.4 = 357.14... = 358 rating

    So we'd only need 358 rating + borrowed time + spell haste raid buff to get 10% haste?

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    "Holy nova being so efficient and high throughput in places that support it lead me to believe there are likely going to be some cases where freeing up the globals will be worth the drop in available mana. I wouldn't really be surprised if it boiled down to more pw:s=solace more nova=bender. Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't a choice either." - Crzed

    This is a very interesting idea that I just read on the bnet disc Beta thread.

    Put simply, Holy Nova is very very mana efficient, and can be almost spammed endlessly. In encounters where we make very heavy use of Holy Nova, and hence mana is less concerning, then mindbender might be better than solace, since it provides more free GCDs for Holy Nova spam (relish the thought :|).

    I was also thinking. Someone else on the beta forum noted that Holy Nova hits harder than smite in single target. I want to check up on this, I'll try on the ptr probably. I can't imagine this is correct, I mean, smite has almost double the spell power co-efficient. However, it is worth noting that Holy Nova does do pretty significant damage in AoE. This could open up some nice potential for disc in WoD Challenge Modes, especially if we somehow end up back in the good books with 5man healing (all the reports are currently that we are very bad at 5man healing).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yeah, absolute crap, as you'd expect its less than half the damage of smite in single target.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Another thing, on the PTR i was testing out Glyph of Reflective Shield, since I figured it might be of interest now that we're spamming PWS all the time. Turns out it only reflects damage on shields on yourself, not on shields on other players. Apparently this is also how it functions on live.
    What's the thought's on that? Idk, i guess you'd open up a whole can of worms if it was on everyone for 70% of the damage absorbed, but idk, that feels kinda shitty to me that it's only for shields on the player. I was starting to think it could be genuinely useful for PVE with CM's or otherwise.
    Disc Priests: Just 2 mana trinkets away from becoming Withered

  19. #59
    Deleted
    I've known about the reflective shield thing for quite some time and feel it's definitely fair: imagine on a fight like thok where PW:S can do upwards of 25M healing. 70% of that as damage would be far too powerful.

    I had a look at the most recent 25hc thok I did - between Saph and I, we did 48M healing with PW:S. That would have resulted in 33.6M damage through a glyph. That's just too much. If it were to be on *all* shields the % reflection would need to be much, much lower.

  20. #60
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lundmark View Post
    I've been playing 5-mans on the Beta so here's my experience from those:
    Atonement is not quite dead in 5-mans, it's been weakened... you are a dps untill your Tank or Dps take a blow so they're sub 60% hp... then you AA -> PW:S -> Penance that target/targets(pw:s) and don't forget to blanket the group with a Prayer of Healing before your AA goes away... continue to top off with smite healing, takes a while but you bubbles usually keep them at "full health" until you can top them off.

    If the tank continues to take a lot of dmg(sub 30%) start flash healing him ontop of a PainSup... mana stays ok unless many people do the wrong stuff for a long period of time, and there is still abilities out there that you just can't save them from.

    Prayer of Mending feels like a "meh I got nothing else to do so why not" ability. Almost like Renew used to be... outside on-the-move.
    Holy Nova isn't used that much in 5-mans... it's more of a blanket absorbs + smite filler enviroment, sure spam it while walking to the next mob pack... it's basically mana free out of combat.

    What stats will I be pursuing? First Tier of raiding and gear hunting I will go for Mastery on every piece and gemming. Crit as 2nd would be lovely but I think a healthy mix of everything would work out fine... as long as I have Mastery I'm happy.
    Thanks, this sounds good! I like that Atonement is at least useful somewhere. In raid content is it still better to build to 5 stacks of Evangelism or is even a single cast of Smite a massive HPS loss?

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