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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by Grxl View Post
    So, after playing disc from WoD launch up to now (armory here), I was thinking I should probably get a holy set and get used to the playstyle, but I can't heal bloody anything with it. I understand that holy and disc have different stat priorities, but my healing really goes from CM-able to being able to barely heal HCs.

    Am I just stupid, or does holy really just not work with my current gear at all?
    It would be partially that you're probably not completely familiar with the holy style and spell usage / keybinds etc etc after being disc for a long time. I doubt your gear would impact it that much. Going from what I've seen with 5mans so far, and what I know from MoP CM's i'd say that there's a LOT of tank damage, which disc would manage a lot better than holy. Until I do some myself though I can't really say anything with certainty.
    Disc Priests: Just 2 mana trinkets away from becoming Withered

  2. #662
    Hi fellow priests, here comes an out written guide of playing disc in WoD HC/CM's.

    Prepare a macro with power infusion/trinket/potion use, pop it at start of every bossfight and when u know tank/raid is gonna take high dmg, start by spamming Smite/Solace up to 5 stacks of angelism = 5 times, use penance on tank between if u have to. Then u pop the five stacks and get ur op 25% healing bonus right away and do Solace/Smite to 5 and mix it in between to have the buff rdy when u need them. Then you use Prayer of healing to get party full on health and apply shields to whole team, the prayer will crit around 20-25k on everyone in your group (630ilvl, 12-14%crit), now your penance is ready use it on tank or lowest teammate. Use Solace on cool-down for infinite mana and use mending/halo when u see fit. Now when you've read this messy guide, you should probably try and make your own adjustments because I am still changing it up sometimes and I have certainly missed something due to im at work and saw many clueless people in this thread so I tried to explain it in an easy way.

    Best regards Primafin-Ravencrest!

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by Tycheh View Post
    It's lfr, OFCOURSE they're incompetent.

    By the way, looking at highmaul gear are we going to have to go holy, or are we going to play disc with an abundance of multistrike gear? Can't say I want to do either.

    The 665 crit/mastery crafted/boe gear won't last for mythic/in to blackrock foundry.

    Multistrike isn't "bad" for disc. Refer to http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...c-stat-weights

  4. #664
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    I have been feeling much more comfortable and confident healing heroics as disc. Getting more gear made a huuuge difference.

    Thanks for all the info Atonement. I can definitely attest to the tank healing ranges with disc; wars always left me feeling much more panicked during a run than the others. And shielding is the way to go. If a tank is taking a ton of damage, i just spam CoW and their health bar freezes in place. I have experimented with trying to throw some heals in but it doesnt end well. Usually if I have a CoW + PWS stacked at the same time, Ill penance or cast a different heal in necessary.

    I am still prepared to mount the twitter attack whenever you give the word. I would like to enter into WoD raiding with a little more utility...I dont know what we can expect them to change; un-nerf HN, or buff something else? But I feel like they are not going to be doing any in depth changes to disc at this point. But who knows!!

    If they end up doing nothing, then we can resign ourselves to filling the niche of tank healers which I believe the demand will be sufficient since we have CoW and other spells in our arsenal.

    As long as I can play disc in any helpful capacity to raid I will be happy. Disc has always been my favorite spec and I dont want it to be maimed out of existence.

  5. #665
    Quote Originally Posted by Symmone View Post
    I am still prepared to mount the twitter attack whenever you give the word. I would like to enter into WoD raiding with a little more utility...I dont know what we can expect them to change; un-nerf HN, or buff something else? But I feel like they are not going to be doing any in depth changes to disc at this point. But who knows!!

    If they end up doing nothing, then we can resign ourselves to filling the niche of tank healers which I believe the demand will be sufficient since we have CoW and other spells in our arsenal.
    https://twitter.com/CM_Lore/status/536960532322844672
    They are looking for low shaman dps, I think that there is our chance to begin our attack. :P

  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by Myuer View Post
    https://twitter.com/CM_Lore/status/536960532322844672
    They are looking for low shaman dps, I think that there is our chance to begin our attack. :P
    except shaman dps is so bad right now you would never consider taking 1 to a raid... unlike disc priests?

    even if disc priest gameplay sucks, its still a very viable and very strong healing spec.

    you are basically complaining because your toy doesn't have as many buttons as another child's toy, even though your toy may actually be better.

  7. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    except shaman dps is so bad right now you would never consider taking 1 to a raid... unlike disc priests?

    even if disc priest gameplay sucks, its still a very viable and very strong healing spec.

    you are basically complaining because your toy doesn't have as many buttons as another child's toy, even though your toy may actually be better.

    Have to agree with this. Have any of you actually gotten second, or even third healers up yet? So far I've got 3 chars sitting in +630 gear - my hunter, my disc, and my resto shaman. I can tell you right here and now, disc has *far* better general tools for keeping the party alive than Shaman has. Disc also has far better mobility (penance, PW:S spam, holy nova, solace vs Riptide and Unleash life), and, dare I say it? better AOE. A chain heal hits for a pitiful amount compared to a PoH, and only costs slightly less (due to crit-mana return interaction).

    The on-demand 50K aoe heal on the entire group from a disc going AA into a PoH for 20K heals and 30K absorbs on everyone is immense - CH (without the lvl 100 talent) hits for an initial 20K at most, then goes down in power for each target, for max 4 targets.

    It's true that Rsham's pure singletarget output is far stronger due to riptide empowering heal wave / surge (for -20% cast time and +30% crit chance, respectively, I think?) and with ES on the tank, I can get upwards of 100K crits on a tank (as opposed to 60-70K on the priest). On the other hand, my riptide heals for an initial 8-10K and a 2K hot after, and my unleash is only slightly better at 10-12K or so. PW:S is an instant 50K absorbs. But in the end, the point is, disc's toolset and the feel of disc gameplay right now? It's not bad. At all. Complaining just for the sake of complaining isn't worth it. You've got nothing to worry about from shamans/paladins/MW's, so are you going to bitch because resto druids have a bit better tools than you do? Really?

  8. #668
    Deleted
    Yeah, all things considered, Disc feels fine at the moment. A little clunky with PW:S being very variable in the amount it shields for and it would be nice to have a reason to cast Holy Nova again but there are more pressing concerns to be addressed.

  9. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    you are basically complaining because your toy doesn't have as many buttons as another child's toy, even though your toy may actually be better.
    You can cut the 'basically', as disc is in fact a toy (or part of a toy) made for kids and older 'kids'.

  10. #670
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    Does multistrike proc on shields at all?

  11. #671
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    I was in a MC run and I felt so bleh.
    I didnt know what to do. Blanket PWS? Only PWS/CoW tanks? HN?

    It seemed like none of my spells were appropriate for that atmosphere...Maybe a 100000m raid isnt the best place to utilize disc but I dunno. I didnt stay long, I didnt want to spend hours in there for 1 item.

  12. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Multistrike isn't "bad" for disc. Refer to http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...c-stat-weights
    In fact, based on my dungeon experience, I have a very strong suspicion that if we do the math for PWS and COW specific formula's we'll find multistrike is actually much better than we realize.
    Also good to see you're still poking your head around these parts
    Disc Priests: Just 2 mana trinkets away from becoming Withered

  13. #673
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    I have never done all the math related theorycrafting, but could someone give some newb tips on how to find this data? The weights of each stat and how we go about calculating them. I totes went to college so I feel like I can handle doing some of that, but I honestly dont know where everyone finds all these numbers.

  14. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by Symmone View Post
    I am still prepared to mount the twitter attack whenever you give the word. I would like to enter into WoD raiding with a little more utility...I dont know what we can expect them to change; un-nerf HN, or buff something else? But I feel like they are not going to be doing any in depth changes to disc at this point. But who knows!!

    If they end up doing nothing, then we can resign ourselves to filling the niche of tank healers which I believe the demand will be sufficient since we have CoW and other spells in our arsenal.

    As long as I can play disc in any helpful capacity to raid I will be happy. Disc has always been my favorite spec and I dont want it to be maimed out of existence.
    Yeah, considering they're getting ready to make some balance changes, it's certainly going to be time to begin soon.

    But I just want to reiterate, and make it very clear, disc IS viable. In fact, we're quiet strong. You don't need to worry about being benched, between the supposed need for tank healing, and the strength of our PWS as a spot healing tool, our raid spots are pretty safe.

    Floopa and Draco are correct, disc is actually in a good spot relative to some other healers, shaman particularly. From what I remember on the beta, shaman were the worst healer currently. Disc was copping regular changes, particularly grace, so we kept moving up and down the list, but at the end I think we were sitting about ~3-4, behind holy and resto druid and kinda even with hpalla and MW monk, with shaman behind everyone.
    I havent yet personally gotten any other characters to level 100, just because I've had exams right up until 2 days ago, but I'll be leveling my Monk and Pala soon.
    I have had a chance to play holy, and to be honest, disc feels even better than holy for 5mans once you really adopt the 'shield don't heal' mentality, but mostly because tank healing feels a lot harder without the op goodness that is CoW. Holy undoubtably feels better at the AoE stuff. Gear also really does trivialize the entire process, the difference between 510 and 530 is extremely noticeable, and it make me suspect that with the removal of indirect throughput stats such as hit/expertise/spirit from main pieces, as well as the added factor of multistike and versatility, that the throughput of all specs is going to noticebaly scale much more exponentially than in the past. Just a theory though xD

    Now, while Floopa and Draco are correct about shaman being in a bad place, it's not unreasonable to protest against PWS spam, even if it's viable, simply because the main problem it causes is that it brings back the 'only one disc per raid group' issue that almost disappeared in 5.4. Holy Nova categorically should not be so weak that it's still not as much throughput as a single PWS when healing 5 targets and no overheal. That's just wrong. So what's what we're pressuring them for, a buff to holy nova again, to make it viable again. It shouldn't increase our throughput in any significant way, because they should only make it slightly stronger (~3-5%) than a PWS, if not almost even, when healing 5 targets, and thus we would only be substituting one for the other. Even if they were exactly even (an impossible feat) it would at least give us a tool that felt more appropriate to the raid healing AoE situation than a single target absorb.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Symmone View Post
    I have never done all the math related theorycrafting, but could someone give some newb tips on how to find this data? The weights of each stat and how we go about calculating them. I totes went to college so I feel like I can handle doing some of that, but I honestly dont know where everyone finds all these numbers.
    I really don't do it much myself, I'm much more towards the conceptual side of theorycrafting discussions. Someone else like Havoc can give you better advice about it than I can.
    Disc Priests: Just 2 mana trinkets away from becoming Withered

  15. #675
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    Agreed. I am acutally enjoying disc more than I thought before WoD was released. I was so afraid but its not so bad. Healing dungeons is a breeze now but I would like to see them fix HN. It would be nice to have that at least to fill a pseudo raid heal since PoH isnt as efficient for mana reasons.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Atonement View Post
    I really don't do it much myself, I'm much more towards the conceptual side of theorycrafting discussions. Someone else like Havoc can give you better advice about it than I can.
    Or maybe Ill be not lazy and to some searching on my own.
    Maybe he can at least point my in the right direction.

  16. #676
    Deleted
    This whole twitter attack thing was stupid to begin with imo. I don't care if I'll be spamming 1 button in raids, I did it in wrath, I'll do it now.
    Would you rather the spec got annihilated, absolutely no viability at all in order to get some more spells? If you say yes to this, you're foolish.

    As long as disc is still a strong healer, I'll be fine with spamming pw:s forever.

  17. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by Tycheh View Post
    This whole twitter attack thing was stupid to begin with imo. I don't care if I'll be spamming 1 button in raids, I did it in wrath, I'll do it now.
    Would you rather the spec got annihilated, absolutely no viability at all in order to get some more spells? If you say yes to this, you're foolish.

    As long as disc is still a strong healer, I'll be fine with spamming pw:s forever.
    This is no decision problem.

  18. #678
    Also, just a cool little side idea for the spec that I wanted to share and (sadly) know will never be implemented:

    Holy nova's range, healing and number of targets is increased by 20% per stack of some buff, up to 5 stacks. The buff would always proc from direct heals (Defensive Penance, Heal, Flash Heal, PoH, PoM) and have a chance (~15-30%) to proc from PWS.
    Obviously Holy Nova's numbers would be balanced around this, but this would be a really nice way to sort out our spread healing issues and add a bit of interest to Holy Nova and the spec in general. I think it would also be nicely in keeping with disc's flavour/style of having to prepare for things (prepare absorbs, prepare SS, prepare archangel) at a high skill level, but also retains a degree of reactionary usage (you could use it at any number of stacks viably). It would also give us nice AoE without feeling so spammy, since we'd have to weave it for maximum effectiveness. Considering that Holy Nova does such low healing as it is, even at a full 5 stacks it wouldn't really be any stronger than a PoH, althpugh it would be hitting 10 people, but again, nothing numbers balancing couldn't fix.

    I personally think it would be so cool to be able to let of a massive range holy nova at 5 stacks

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tycheh View Post
    This whole twitter attack thing was stupid to begin with imo. I don't care if I'll be spamming 1 button in raids, I did it in wrath, I'll do it now.
    Would you rather the spec got annihilated, absolutely no viability at all in order to get some more spells? If you say yes to this, you're foolish.

    As long as disc is still a strong healer, I'll be fine with spamming pw:s forever.
    They're not going to annihilate a spec because a dozen people from an online forum tweeted abuse a them. If nothing else, I'll give the credit for being thick skinned and not being immature about these things.

    That being said, having had time to cool down and think it through carefully since the last round of changes, I think it's not going to get anywhere just spamming insults at them and hoping they get the message.

    We're better off politely but unrelentingly telling them that holy nova is not viable since the nerf and needs a buff, until we get a reply. And if that reply is that they've given up on holy nova yet again this xpac, then that's that, then we can personally choose to abuse them if we feel so inclined.
    Disc Priests: Just 2 mana trinkets away from becoming Withered

  19. #679
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tycheh View Post
    As long as disc is still a strong healer, I'll be fine with spamming pw:s forever.

    That only works for those that see wow as a job.

  20. #680
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tycheh View Post
    This whole twitter attack thing was stupid to begin with imo. I don't care if I'll be spamming 1 button in raids, I did it in wrath, I'll do it now.
    Would you rather the spec got annihilated, absolutely no viability at all in order to get some more spells? If you say yes to this, you're foolish.
    Would rather the spec was balanced and engaging. WotLK is not something I'd want to go back to as a healer.

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