[6.2.3] Discipline Priest Discussion

[Jimjam38]

Holinka's recent blue tweet:
"I don't foresee any talent changes at this point. I do believe their healing received a recent buff."

So I think it's time to accept that there really won't be any proper changes at this point. The best we can expect is a bit better numbers tuning. As such, I think it's time we start discussing more important things that just how we all hate Celestalon and how our own ideas are so much better than theirs (I know I've been too focused on that thus far).

A lot of things have already been discussed on the "Alpha testers come here ! (Priest discussion)" thread, which we essentially hijacked and made into our disc specific thread, so one thing I'd like to do is try to consolidate a lot of the useful information that was posted there among all the "what if" and QQ posts.

What I'd like to see on this thread:

• Stat priorities
  - how stats interact with our spells and mechanics
  - which stats are our best throughput
  - which stats have a cap and what that cap is
  - if temporary stat increases (ie, trinket procs) will change our gameplay at all
• Gems/Enchants/Gearing
• T17 2pc and 4pc dicussion
• Spell discussion:
  - what our best abilities are
  - when and why to use them
  - when and why not to use them
  - what's situational and what's never worth using
• Talent's discussion:
  - what our go-to talents are
  - why they're the go-to talents
  - what our situational talents are and when to use them
  - what talents are just trash and why
• Glyphs discussion:
  - what glyphs are mandatory and why
  - what glyphs are good optional extras and why
  - what glyphs are situational and why
  - what glyphs are trash to avoid and why
• Healing in different situations, what our jobs and priority is going to be:
  - PvE 5 man dungeon healing
  - PvE Small flexible raid healing (10-15 people)
  - PvE Medium-large flexible size raid healing (15-25 people)
  - PvE Mythic Raid Healing (20 people)
  - PvP 2's Arena healing
  - PvP 3's Arena healing
  - PvP 5's Arena healing
  - PvP Battleground healing
  - PvP World PvP healing (Ashran etc)
• General tips and tricks and anything else interesting or useful you have found for the spec

What I DON'T want to see on this thread:

• Unjustified, subjective opinions (eg, "WoM is trash because I hate it and I won't accept it for a T100 talent, we deserve better so we shouldn't use it")
• Unconstructive QQ about the state of the spec - we have our other thread to complain about that stuff, this is about working out what we do have and how best to use it. (Eg. "OMFG FFS disc is so shit, just 1 button spam FML I cant play this shit until they fix it UNSUB NOW PLS druids OP disc useless blizzard sux")
• Random ideas about how you'd fix everything - again, we have our other thread to complain about that stuff, this is about working out what we do have and how best to use it. (Eg. "They need to remove atonement completely and then make flash heal generate evangelism and this and that")

- - - Updated - - -

Here are the major changes for disc in WoD:
Ability Pruning

• Binding Heal is now only available to Holy Priests.
• Evangelism is now available only to Discipline Priests.
• Hymn of Hope has been removed.
• Heal has been removed.
• Inner Fire has been removed.
• Inner Focus has been removed.
• Inner Will has been removed.
• Rapture has been removed.
• Renew is now available only to Holy Priests.
• Shadow Word: Death is now available only to Shadow Priests.
• Discipline and Holy Priests can add a self-damaging utility to Holy Fire through a new Major Glyph.
• Spirit Shell is now a level-75 talent, replacing Divine Insight for Discipline Priests.
• Strength of Soul has been removed.
• Train of Thought has been removed.
• Void Shift has been removed.

Ability Consolidation and Refinement

• Greater Heal has been renamed to Heal.
• Borrowed Time’s effects have been merged into baseline Power Word: Shield for Discipline Priests.
• Borrowed Time has been redesigned. It now increases the Priest's stat gains to Haste from all sources by 40% for 6 seconds.
• Holy Fire now lasts 9 seconds (up from 7 seconds).
• Pain Suppression no longer reduces the target’s threat by 5%
• Evangelism no longer affects the damage or mana cost of spells. Damage of affected spells have been adjusted to compensate.
• Focused Will now triggers from any damage taken instead of being limited to being the victim of any damage above 5% of total health or being critically hit by non-periodic attacks.
• Power Word: Shield now has a chance for a critical effect based on critical strike chance and can Multistrike based on Multistrike chance for all specializations.
• Cascade’s Mana cost has been reduced by 67%.
• Discipline and Holy: Cascade now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast, see also: Instant Cast Heals), heals for 50% less, and no longer damages enemies.
• Divine Star’s Mana cost has been reduced by 67%, and now follows standard AoE capping rules.
• Discipline and Holy: Divine Star now heals for 50% less, and no longer damages enemies.
• Halo’s Mana cost has been reduced by 67%, and now follows standard AoE capping rules.
• Discipline and Holy: Halo now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast, see also: Instant Cast Heals), heals for 50% less, and no longer damages enemies.

Talent Revisions

• Level-15 and Level-60 talent rows have swapped places.
• From Darkness, Comes Light has been split into two abilities depending on the Priest's specialization.
• Surge of Light (Discipline, Holy) activation chance has been reduced to 8% (down from 15%).
• Power Infusion now grants 25% Haste (up from 20%), but no longer increases damage (down from 5%).
• Solace and Insanity has been split into Power Word: Solace for Discipline and Holy, and Insanity for Shadow.
• Twist of Fate now only triggers from healing for Discipline and Holy Priests, and only triggers from damage for Shadow Priests.

Miscellaneous Changes

• Angelic Feathers now increases movement speed by 60% (down from 80%). If cast on players, will always prefer the casting Priest over others, then pick the player closest to the targeted location. If there are no players where it is targeted, it will still create a feather that can be picked up, as before. Additionally, when collecting multiple feathers, the duration will be extended instead of replaced; up to a maximum of 130% of base duration.
• Enlightenment is a new passive ability for Discipline Priests.
• Enlightenment increases the critical healing chance of Prayer of Mending by 10%, and increases stat gains to Critical Strike from all sources by 5%.
• Holy Nova is no longer available through a Major Glyph, and is instead a Discipline specialization spell. Its mana cost has been lowered and its healing increased. It is intended as the efficient area-of-effect (AoE) healing spell for Discipline Priests.
• Prayer of Mending from multiple Priests can now be on the same target, and can be on multiple targets from the same Priest, but the ability has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast). (See also: Instant Cast Heals)
• Shadowfiend no longer restores mana.
• Mindbender now restores 0.75% mana per hit (down from 1.75% mana).
• Void Tendrils now have 10% of the Priest’s health (down from 20%), and damage dealt to the rooted target is now also dealt to the Void Tendril itself.

[Well]

What's different with the feathers on beta? Haven't seen major changes other than the 20% speed nerf and some mechanical details(?)?

~~~

Very nice layout, Atonement

[moothz]

About our stats, I believe we have something like this:

1. Critical Rating: Divine Aegis on Holy Hova, nuff said
2. Mastery: Overall Healing improvement, good scaling
3. Multistrike: A second and third chance to increase our bubbles
4. Haste: Most of our casts should consist of Holy Nova and PW:S, Borrowed Time Interaction is nice, but no rush to get haste - if the gear happens to have it nice, if it doesn't, no problem. We won't be spamming Prayer of Healing anymore
5. Versatility: Attonement is bad and won't be fixed, very low healing increase and useless for damage increase

I would go full crit with my gems since there doesn't seem to be any color limitations anymore.

--- Edited, not relevant since I overlooked Archangel changes

[Deleted]

What's different with the feathers on beta? Haven't seen major changes other than the 20% speed nerf and some mechanical details(?)?

~~~

Very nice layout, Atonement

I'm pretty sure they changed it so the feathers prioritize going on the caster rather than other players. Atleast they feel way better on beta, I put a feather down on live and it doesn't give me the buff.

[rylai21]

@moothz Archangel is back to having a 30 sec cooldown a few builds ago.

As of right now if they don't change our set bonuses they are very strong - to a point where we're going to be reliant on them. One solution, I guess, would be to make the two piece base-line (or at least 1 stack of evangelism, whatever). It puts the spec to a point where it's at least bearable to play (you can take shitty smite off your bar). The four piece seems quite strong as well. Being able to actually make use of spirit shell is pretty amazing. I could just be talking out of my butt, but, I'm thinking mastery will be quite good due to the sheer amount of PWS and CoW usage on spread fights.

Some logs from the other night, we mostly 4 healed iirc:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ealing&fight=7

I was disc for most of Beastlord and the numbers were quite high (maybe too high?). The few attempts I was holy just wasn't comparing. It is possible I'm just rusty at holy, however.

[moothz]

@moothz Archangel is back to having a 30 sec cooldown a few builds ago.

Oh, thank god! I thought that was final, horrible not having a CD. Didn't see it in the patch notes, also. Much easier this way, 30s is more than enough to build 5 stacks without casting useless smite

I see you didn't cast any offensive penance, any specific reason for that?
Very nice numbers on those absorbs.

[Well]

I don't see much Holy Nova on these logs. Is the fight a spread out one? I also see little to no atonement. Is it mana-negative even after the buff to Power Word: Solace? Isn't Spirit Shell way too high on amount absorbed? Or did you use it on cooldown for throughtput? Is Power Word: Shield strong now?

Thanks in advance. ;-)

[rylai21]

@moothz- There's virtually zero reason to cast offensive penance with the 2 piece. Defensive heals for double (iirc) of offensive if it's effective healing.

@Well- the majority of Beastlord is spread out yeah, so not much HN usage. There's so little atonement basically because the only spell providing it is Solace. Solace was used on CD as much as I could, running zero addons on beta so I probably didn't hit it as much as I possibly could. Spirit Shell I basically used on cooldown. With the 4 piece there is really no reason not to, especially on that encounter with pretty consistent raid damage throughout the fight.

[moothz]

@moothz- There's virtually zero reason to cast offensive penance with the 2 piece. Defensive heals for double (iirc) of offensive if it's effective healing.

2 piece only gives 2 envagelism if it's defensive? Anyways, for a moment, I totally forgot that the scaling of heal/damage os very different on WoD. It's 100% vs 220% Spellpower (damage/healing, not taking in account 10% loss from atonement).

Would this be a good healing priority/Rotation?

• Use Solace on Cooldown
• Friendly Penance on cooldown
• Archangel on Cooldown with PoH spam
• If Spirit shell is up/will be up with archangel, PW:S something + Pop Archangel + Spirit Shell + PoH Spamming
• CoW on tanks as needed (stacks applications, burst damage)
• Fillers: PW:S + Cascade for spread raid, Holy Nova + Divine Star for stacked raid (?)

[rylai21]

Would this be a good healing priority/Rotation?

• Use Solace on Cooldown
• Friendly Penance on cooldown
• Archangel on Cooldown with PoH spam
• If Spirit shell is up/will be up with archangel, PW:S something + Pop Archangel + Spirit Shell + PoH Spamming
• CoW on tanks as needed (stacks applications, burst damage)
• Fillers: PW:S + Cascade for spread raid, Holy Nova + Divine Star for stacked raid (?)

Looks solid to me.

[Deleted]

2 piece only gives 2 envagelism if it's defensive? Anyways, for a moment, I totally forgot that the scaling of heal/damage os very different on WoD. It's 100% vs 220% Spellpower (damage/healing, not taking in account 10% loss from atonement).

Would this be a good healing priority/Rotation?

• Use Solace on Cooldown
• Friendly Penance on cooldown
• Archangel on Cooldown with PoH spam
• If Spirit shell is up/will be up with archangel, PW:S something + Pop Archangel + Spirit Shell + PoH Spamming
• CoW on tanks as needed (stacks applications, burst damage)
• Fillers: PW:S + Cascade for spread raid, Holy Nova + Divine Star for stacked raid (?)

Yup that looks fine to me.

[Squishysib]

So I'm pretty confident that I can adjust to the new play style and pull my own weight, but I was wondering if anyone can tell me if raw numbers hold up? Like Is choosing to go Disc over Holy just a bad idea? Or is Holy just the go too for at least the first tier?

[Deleted]

So I'm pretty confident that I can adjust to the new play style and pull my own weight, but I was wondering if anyone can tell me if raw numbers hold up? Like Is choosing to go Disc over Holy just a bad idea? Or is Holy just the go too for at least the first tier?

Well personally, what I will probably do is play holy until I atleast get 2 set. I'll test disc out in progression raids, but without the tier I'm unsure how good it will actually be.

If your raid doesn't mind you experimenting with both specs you'll probably come to a decision pretty quickly. I think the main thing for disc being successful is learning the timers of encounters so we can prepare for damage, until then holy will be the way to go.

[Teegs]

2 piece only gives 2 envagelism if it's defensive? Anyways, for a moment, I totally forgot that the scaling of heal/damage os very different on WoD. It's 100% vs 220% Spellpower (damage/healing, not taking in account 10% loss from atonement).

Would this be a good healing priority/Rotation?

• Use Solace on Cooldown
• Friendly Penance on cooldown
• Archangel on Cooldown with PoH spam
• If Spirit shell is up/will be up with archangel, PW:S something + Pop Archangel + Spirit Shell + PoH Spamming
• CoW on tanks as needed (stacks applications, burst damage)
• Fillers: PW:S + Cascade for spread raid, Holy Nova + Divine Star for stacked raid (?)

A PoH spam would be great once you get your 4 piece and only in heavy AoE, spamming it otherwise would be inefficient

[TwoTapTimmy]

wow what a great thread thanks

[moothz]

A PoH spam would be great once you get your 4 piece and only in heavy AoE, spamming it otherwise would be inefficient

Ye, I forgot to add that it was with 4pc

[Deleted]

Great thread! Will defiantly be following this one!

[Deleted]

PWS:3xPoH is your maximum AoE HPS. During the 8s of archangel you should either be spamming sprit shell or PWS:3xPoH with the 4 set.

The 2set for disc should be giving you evangelism stacks when you cast penance regardless of whether its offensive of defensive according to the spell description. The only question is does offensive penance give you 3 stacks? Then one offensive + 1 defensive penance is the best way to go.

Mastery and crit are the best stats for disc. Haste is about the same value but it does not increase HPM so should be avoided. Multistrike is also good, but I think it will suffer more from overhealing. All in all there are no bad stats for disc atm. You probably will want to take as much mastery and crit as possible, but any left over stats will not really hinder you.

[Deleted]

PWS:3xPoH is your maximum AoE HPS. During the 8s of archangel you should either be spamming sprit shell or PWS:3xPoH with the 4 set.

The 2set for disc should be giving you evangelism stacks when you cast penance regardless of whether its offensive of defensive according to the spell description. The only question is does offensive penance give you 3 stacks? Then one offensive + 1 defensive penance is the best way to go.

Mastery and crit are the best stats for disc. Haste is about the same value but it does not increase HPM so should be avoided. Multistrike is also good, but I think it will suffer more from overhealing. All in all there are no bad stats for disc atm. You probably will want to take as much mastery and crit as possible, but any left over stats will not really hinder you.

I believe offensive still only gives 2 stacks.

And isn't borrowed time pretty meh unless we have a lot of haste? I don't really notice the cast time differences with the buff up.

[Post]

I believe offensive still only gives 2 stacks.

And isn't borrowed time pretty meh unless we have a lot of haste? I don't really notice the cast time differences with the buff up.

Right now offensive gives 3 stacks and defensive gives 2 with the set bonus.