[6.2.3] Discipline Priest Discussion

[Djriff]

The problem with Clarity on tyrant is that your shields don't have to deal with the reduced HP. It would better for the raid group as a whole to bubble spam than CoW the tanks (as long as you have a holy pally). In p3 there is quite a bit of movement, which means less uptime on CoW.

[PosPosPos]

Kilrogg Deadeye as Heartseeker bleed damage is dangerous. It is easy to lose raid members during to Heartseeker Bleed + Death-throes raid damage so using Clarity of Will to counter the ~2-3 heartseeker bleeds that exist is not a bad idea.

If you ever run CoW on this fight, it's for people doing visions. Heartseeker damage is laughable on Mythic(and if it is really a problem, just BoP it off/immunize those), and moreso for lower difficulties.

Mannoroth imps and adds create random raid damage but this is not a great Prayer of Mending fight. Additionally mechanics like Mannoroth's Gaze can be handled easier. Stacking your bubbles on feared targets can save lives. Tank damage can be rough too so extra Clarities for the boss combo attacks can help.

Clarity of Will is fantastic for early progression where the tanks spike in health from combo attacks. It is certainly *not* for Gaze. You have like 4-5 seconds to Clarity 3+ targets before they explode, good luck trying to get more than one off.

Like, you listed the bosses CoW are occasionally run on, but you can't even list the proper reasons. The blind shouldn't lead the blind and certainly shouldn't parrot off their preliminary and superficial observations without first understanding why.

[blargh312]

Only fight I use CoW on now is Assault and that's just because there's almost no raid damage to take advantage of WoM. I did use CoW on Kilrogg for a while but that was before I realized the visions buff didn't affect it (which I'm ashamed to admit took me a few weeks).

[Deleted]

Saving Grace is great on Gorefiend mythic, to top spirits inside. Yeah, you lose hps outside but what matters in this fight is your healing inside.

[Deleted]

Question about trinkets for Disc. Which ones should I equip?

Flickering Felspark (705)
Ironspike Chew Toy (700)
Auto-Repairing Autoclave (700)

Ironspike Chew Toy and Auto-Repairing Autoclave are apparently T17 BiS, but I was thinking of replacing one of them with the Flickering Felspark.

Stats without any trinkets equipped:

Intellect: 4651
Mastery: 41,73%
Haste: 6,73%
Spirit: 1073

Thanks.

[Deleted]

For your current trinkets id say use felspark and Chew toy. Try get Demonic phylactery asap tho and always keep it equipped. Second trinket imo can be abit dependable on preferance and raid difficulty/fight. Myself i use Desecrated Shadowmoon Insignia and swap it out for Flickering Felspark if i need the spirit, alot disc use Inuitions gift but im not a big fan of it myself (maybe also cause my insignia and felspark is mythic gem)

Auto repairing was never bis for disc tho, just to comment on that.

[CorpShephard]

If you ever run CoW on this fight, it's for people doing visions. Heartseeker damage is laughable on Mythic(and if it is really a problem, just BoP it off/immunize those), and moreso for lower difficulties.

Clarity of Will is fantastic for early progression where the tanks spike in health from combo attacks. It is certainly *not* for Gaze. You have like 4-5 seconds to Clarity 3+ targets before they explode, good luck trying to get more than one off.

Like, you listed the bosses CoW are occasionally run on, but you can't even list the proper reasons. The blind shouldn't lead the blind and certainly shouldn't parrot off their preliminary and superficial observations without first understanding why.

My advice is what I've discovered going through heroics. When I first dropped Kilrogg with my guild I used Clarity of Will to stem bleeding damage from Heartseeker and found that very valuable. Having a couple of Clarity bubbles going into a death-throes has helped me in these situations.

I'm willing to admit the argument for using Clarity to counter Mannoroth's fear was misplaced. To be honest I was aiming with my post to more generally answer the question "Why I would/should I take Clarity of Will", which tends to boil down to "your raid is suffering from too much tank damage or mechanics that target 1-4 players with high single-target damage".

If my advice is lacking then give him the better advice. Guy had one brief response to his question after 2-3 days.

[PosPosPos]

Do I need to pass a qualification exam to give out advice?

So you believe you can be utterly wrong and still dish out advice?

My advice is what I've discovered going through heroics. When I first dropped Kilrogg with my guild I used Clarity of Will to stem bleeding damage from Heartseeker and found that very valuable. Having a couple of Clarity bubbles going into a death-throes has helped me tremendously in these situations.

Learn to use bops and immunities then.

I'm willing to admit the argument for using Clarity to counter Mannoroth's fear was misplaced. To be honest I was aiming with my post to more generally answer the question "Why I would/should I take Clarity of Will", which tends to boil down to "your raid is suffering from too much tank damage or mechanics that target 1-4 players with high single-target damage".

If my advice is lacking then give him the better advice. Guy had one brief response to his question after 2-3 days.

And that brief response was more than sufficient. Don't need a long fucking essay to explain a simple concept.

[Djriff]

@Pos No need to go all out on the guy. He admitted he made some mistakes and retracted his statement. All you did was make yourself look like an ass.

[Pearl1717]

@Pos No need to go all out on the guy. He admitted he made some mistakes and retracted his statement. All you did was make yourself look like an ass.

Nah, I love when pospospos responds to people :P

[CorpShephard]

So you believe you can be utterly wrong and still dish out advice?

Do you really believe that my advice was so off base as to be described as "utterly wrong"?

Learn to use bops and immunities then.

Not everyone can count on geared Paladins in their friends and family raids. We use BoPs in our raid to remove the heartseeker damage. It's really nice! Our paladins don't make to every raid. In the absence of having the perfect counter to a mechanic you can focus on what your class can bring to the table to help deal with it. Clarity of Will is such a tool. Thus the advice.

[PosPosPos]

@Pos No need to go all out on the guy. He admitted he made some mistakes and retracted his statement. All you did was make yourself look like an ass.

I don't back down from haughty people who think they don't even have a basic responsibility to make sure their statements are right when giving advice.

See:

Do I need to pass a qualification exam to give out advice?

Like really? Because fact checking is difficult I presume?

- - - Updated - - -

Do you really believe that my advice was so off base as to be described as "utterly wrong"?

If the reasons given are wrong, then how do you expect the recipients of your advice to understand the concepts involved?

It's as if someone asked why Mastery is the best secondary stat for disc, and I told them it's because it scales best with direct heals. Doesn't take a genius to realize that the bad advice caused way more harm than not giving advice at all(when it was given to begin with in this particular context).

Not everyone can count on geared Paladins in their friends and family raids. We use BoPs in our raid to remove the heartseeker damage. It's really nice! Our paladins don't make to every raid. In the absence of having the perfect counter to a mechanic you can focus on what your class can bring to the table to help deal with it. Clarity of Will is such a tool. Thus the advice.

It's not even difficult to place hots on those targets. Even if you don't have bops.

Holy and Ret Paladins are dime a dozen, and you don't need geared ones for Heroic to begin with.

[Deleted]

I don't back down from haughty people who think they don't even have a basic responsibility to make sure their statements are right when giving advice.

See:



Like really? Because fact checking is difficult I presume?

- - - Updated - - -



If the reasons given are wrong, then how do you expect the recipients of your advice to understand the concepts involved?

It's as if someone asked why Mastery is the best secondary stat for disc, and I told them it's because it scales best with direct heals. Doesn't take a genius to realize that the bad advice caused way more harm than not giving advice at all(when it was given to begin with in this particular context).


It's not even difficult to place hots on those targets. Even if you don't have bops.

Holy and Ret Paladins are dime a dozen, and you don't need geared ones for Heroic to begin with.

I think you need to take a breather bud.

[PosPosPos]

I think you need to take a breather bud.

Oh, and here I was wondering when the peanut gallery would arrive with their useless one-liners.

[Yvaelle]

Oh, and here I was wondering when the peanut gallery would arrive with their useless one-liners.

Pos, on the one hand I like having you around because you do genuinely know your stuff very well - and you help keep correct information in the public eye.

On the other hand, it's really hard to reconcile your attitude sometimes - you would probably enjoy these discussions more, and people would receive what you say with more authority and less conflict - if you could be a little less confrontational when you find an error.

Then - rather than everything being a personal battle, people might discuss the topic with you - rather than discuss your aggressive communication style: which I know isn't what you want the discussion to be about either.

[CorpShephard]

I'll step out of the discussion as it seems to be spiraling into something completely pedantic and pointless.

I can't look at this discussion without feeling like the whole thing has been completely blown out of proportion for no reason.

So you believe you can be utterly wrong and still dish out advice?

To answer your question; I do believe that anyone should be able to give advice. As long as the advice is from someone who earnestly wants to help then even imperfect advice has value. It can foster discussion and understanding on what parts of the advice are good and what parts are wrong and why. Discussion leads to understanding for all parties.

That hasn't happened at all though. So I guess I'm just wrong. My advice post appears to have been literally Hitler. For which I can only apologize!

[Genzen Han]

First I'd like to thank PosPosPos (and others) for the recommendation to switch to Halo from Cascade. I've found it much more useful to have an 'Oomph' spell every 40 seconds that hits everyone for about 20k, rather than getting a 30 second spell that hits for 5-6k per person.

Anyhow, now that our dps have all gotten their rings and we're no longer choked by dps checks, our guild is able to progress through heroic fights and we're also gonna work on Mannaroth. I was hoping to get some critique from those who are good at analyzing logs - tell me what I'm doing right, what could be better, what's plain wrong etc.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...nkings&boss=-3

I'll give a bit of information just to explain a few things. We run Disc (me), Resto Druid, and Holy Priest. On the earlier heroic fights, the Holy Priest goes Shadow just to help with dps since we don't need the extra heals. Once we get farther into the dungeon, she switches back (we have to run three heals because our group isn't amazing and we have to heal a lot of avoidable damage and mistakes etc).

I run Power Word: Solace, and use it and Offensive Penance to get my 5 stacks of AA. That's where my Atonement healing mostly comes from (occasionally I'll spam a few Smites when there's nothing to heal so I can use a Defensive Penance later). Also, I have the 4-piece from HFC.

Feel free to offer any comments or advice (even about the other raiders - all help is useful).

[Yunzi]

Feel free to offer any comments or advice (even about the other raiders - all help is useful).

Put a gem in your socketed heroic tier helm - I recommend paying the 6k or so gold for a +75 mastery one, since you probably won't be upgrading it for a long time. If you have a sizeable amount of gold you could get a 715 crafted belt with high mastery and crit - your phylactery allows you to cast more PoH and take advantage of a higher crit stat.

Healing, especially as a disc priest, is all about responding rationally to information. It's very difficult to determine how well you're doing this from logs, as least for a novice log-examiner such as myself. More healers should consider whether their UI is giving them all the information they need - for example I had to alter my UI to show the Gift of the Man'ari debuff, which it didn't do by default. This action alone raised my HPS on Socrethar by about 5k.

Speaking of Socrethar, you didn't use Clarity of Will on that fight, which is valuable in healing people with the debuff. You also were out-dispelled by both of the other healers - you can use Glyph of Purification to give yourself two dispels every 12 seconds, instead of the default two every 16 seconds. Clarity of Will is also good on the Kilrogg fight to heal debuffed players, and consider it in other cases where the tanks are vulnerable and dying, especially since your raid team lacks a holy paladin.

On many of your fights you never dip below 80% mana - so there's a couple things you can do. Use Draenic Intellect Potions, both pre-pull (about 2 seconds before) and during the fight, whenever you want an extra healing boost for 25 seconds, usually near the end of the fight. Also have both spirit and throughput pieces for applicable gear slots - neck, cloak, ring, trinkets - you already have the amulet covered. The very short Fel Lord Zakuun fight is the best in the instance for going pure throughput and blasting out strong heals.

A key aspect of disc priests is the use of PWS to save an otherwise dying player - it's not something I can deduce from logs but should be kept in mind as you're reviewing your performance. Disc priests should never go on autopilot with a healing rotation of OffPen-HF-PWS-PWS-PWS, etc. - even if you think you know how a pull's going to go surprises can happen at any time which need to be responded to.

[Genzen Han]

Ah thanks for reminding me of the gem - I just got that helm last night and I forgot to get the gem for it.

I use Healbot as my UI, and I have it configured to show me everything I need without being overly cluttered.

You're right about me being out-dispelled; the other healers are just a bit faster than I am at pressing the dispel button, I think. We all try to get their first, but they're just better. I haven't gone CoW on that one because we haven't gotten there on heroic yet, and on normal, it's pretty faceroll to heal. It's a good point though, and I do plan to use it on Heroic mode if it seems like Man'ari and/or tanks are in need of more powerful heals - atm, a PWS and a HoT from the other two are more than enough to cover the normal damage.

I'm glad you noticed the mana. I actually have three gear-sets: a 'full throughput', a 'best mix' and a 'full mana' set. I used my throughput one for the first few fights, and switch to my best mixture, I think after the Council. I've started to spam more PoH when it's needed now, since I know I have the mana to spare - it's just hard to get out of the mindset of 'PoH is inefficient never use rawrz!'.
It's definitely something I can watch out for on the heroic fights, and I'll try to use my throughput set on each of them and note down which ones I need to switch to a more mana-efficient set.

Thanks for the feedback so far!

[Deleted]

Hey guys,

So right now i've got all 5 set pieces heroic, but I also have Demon prices cowl(Hc 720) Ancient gorestaned wrap (mythic 725) and Pilotds pauldrons (mythic 720)

I raid with a holy pala every single week guaranteed, and sometimes two.

I was wondering if it is worth it for me to swap out the 4 set for these higher ilvl offpieces for raw stats over the 4 set.